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I am more humble than you..

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posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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I sometimes wonder how it is possible that most people have a sense of their being a higher power. All throughout history we have been praising Gods and Goddesses. Why is that??

Let's go back in time (before organized religion or complex social structures). Imagine being among the first people to be be confronted with the notion that everything you think might actually be the result of the mind playing tricks on you. Your interpretation of the truth is influenced by the way your mind is constructed. So you conclude that beside your personal truth there has to be some universal truth.

So you set off on a 40 year travel through the desert to ponder this complex issue and eventually you conclude that all preconceived notions have to be thrown overboard in order to see the real truth. Which basically means you have to chuck aside everything that is "you".

I guess if one succeeds at this you are seeing the absolute truth as it is. You cannot form an opinion about what you are witnessing because that would cancel out your position as objective observer. Only thing left to do is admire this construct. The wisdom of realizing one's own ignorance, insignificance, and lowliness leaves only the feeling of humility towards this truth.

Well, at least you didn't spend 40 years in some barren place for nothing but now what?? You have the key to seeing the absolute truth. So you run back to your village to spread the word....


villager: Hey John, haven't seen you around here the last 40 years!
you: Well I was traveling through the desert and you won't believe what I found out!
villager: What?
you: well, you might think that something is either one or the other but it has actually nothing to do with the real nature of that something!
villager: ........Say what??
you: Suppose there is only you and me and we get into an argument. I have my version of the truth and you have your version of the truth. But who is correct?
villager: Well obviously the one who is speaking the truth.
you: Yeah, but what if we are having an argument about the weather? We both have our motivations. But who holds the truth?
villager: Well I guess that is a matter of opinion!
you: Indeed. But what if this goes for every truth you have based your reality on?
villager: Well...uhmm...you got me there John! How will we ever know what is true?
you: well if you would spend some time in the desert reflecting on the you that is you instead of the you that you created, you will also understand this.
villager: But John, I have a successful flint arrowhead production company and I really do not have the time or the urge to wonder through the desert for a couple of decades! Can't you give me a summery or something?
you: Well I could but to break the spell that your ego has over you, you really need to aware this yourself!! It really won't work any other way.
villager: Okay, hold on. I have an idea!! If I am lying to myself about the truth, can't you come up with a more convincing lie that will overrule the existing one?
you: We could try to convince your ego that the real you is actually some kind of entity who is flawless? Then you do not need to question it's authority. You only need to be humble and give praises to it's existence.
villager: Yeah that might work. Can you produce a fairy tail that is so convincing that I and all the other villagers will believe it without question?
you: Well I could come up with some mystical entity that created everything and has all the answers. But you have to remember that it is merely a construct to let you enjoy the amazing nature of the real you!!! That mystical God is nothing more than you without the bias!!
villager: Yeah no problem. I'll remember!! Now convince me.....


The rest is history....

Peace

Edit for terrible grammar...


[edit on 7-9-2010 by operation mindcrime]




posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 


reading that was entertaining. not sure if i agree with most of it, but you do point out some potential flaws and possible conflicts within the percieved duality of our human conditions.

thanks for sharing your thoughts S&F,
et

[edit on 7-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Thanks for the reply E.T..


I think it is wonderful that you do not agree with most of what I said. As a matter of fact, I am questioning my own reasoning as well...


I really lack any kind of education or experience in this field but in scratching the surface of understanding this, I have realized that those things that give you knowledge can also be the cause of why you are not finding any answers. I have switched to free flow and have become most suspicious of my own thoughts....

It's merely playing with concepts. I am in the wonderful position to experiment with this freely because I have not set my believes in stone. (if I even have any believes!! Man, this whole "life" thing is confusing but also very entertaining).

Peace

[edit on 7-9-2010 by operation mindcrime]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 



I sometimes wonder how it is possible that most people have a sense of their being a higher power. All throughout history we have been praising Gods and Goddesses. Why is that??
I think there are many reasons why a person may believe or have a sense of there being a higher power. I don't have any sense or intuition telling me there is a higher being personally. In fact, I never felt more free than the day I realized there is no higher power scrutinizing my every move and deciding whether I deserve eternal damnation or infinite bliss.


Only thing left to do is admire this construct. The wisdom of realizing one's own ignorance, insignificance, and lowliness leaves only the feeling of humility towards this truth.
I completely agree, if we are to learn, discover, and make progress as a species, we need to learn to let go of these ridiculous preconceptions we hold onto. The key is in accepting that we might not have all the answers, in fact we have very little answers. You don't then invent a book which gives you all the answers, including specific details about how we should live our life, and even the after life. These fairy tails are the results of our not being able to accept our ignorance. In this respect, the phrase "deny ignorance" is probably rather stupid, because without first acknowledging our ignorance, and than accepting it, we will never get past it.

EDIT: The text in my sig sums it up well actually, and seems pretty relevant here.

EDIT: And I want to add, I don't completely deny all the events of the bible and other religious texts, and the value of witness testimony. I do believe some of the events which seem to pop up in many historical texts all over the world actually took place, things like a great flood etc probably did happen but much of it is probably misinterpretations, lies, and edits which have taken place over time. It's simply a "quick fix" to this problem of ignorance, and also a tool used by elites to manipulate those who feel compelled to submit themselves to a higher being based on little to no proof.

[edit on 7/9/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


CHAOS,


You don't then invent a book which gives you all the answers, including specific details about how we should live our life, and even the after life.


My little story actually explains better the creation of religion. And I am still not sure about it not being a good thing...I can see how a religion can be beneficial for a society.

But the notion of a "God" is, in my opinion, essential for awareness to have come into existence in the first place. I think a "God" is hardwired in our brain, by our brain as a condition for experiencing the illusion of awareness.

I guess it must have gone something like this.....Our big highly specialized brain must have reached a point somewhere in evolution that it could afford itself the luxury of boredom.

Somewhere between eating fleas of each others backs and appreciating the fine taste of a certain wine, our brain had evolved into a complex machine made up of fine tuned modules each with their own specific task. Only when this task was not called upon the module is expected to sit quiet and do nothing!!

Inherent to it's nature, doing nothing is not easy for a brain who is bored.

For all cat owners this is a known fact. Sometimes your cats will case an imaginary mouse all across the living room. If you would ask the cat, that mouse is very much real!! The brain produces an illusion because it has spare time. The cats brain did not create the illusion for fun but because the brain is using the spare time to fine tune those "weapons" that mother nature provided him with.

In our peculiar case that weapon is our brain. So our brain should have the urge to fine tune itself when it has spare time....so how does the brain go about in doing that??

I think that in order to accommodate his own urge he has to challenge himself with questions (you know, like braintrainer on your DS
). That can only be achieved if the brain fools a part of his brain into thinking that it is autonomous. It creates the illusion of awareness and gets the never ending circle going of asking questions.

But for this illusion to work, a couple of rules have to be applied!!

1) The "aware" part of the brain will have to be convinced of it's autonomy.
2) The brain will always remain the higher authority.

Dilemma!!!

I think that, as a security measure, the brain hardwires a "God" in order to prevent the "aware" part from becoming rebellious or insane. In turn the "aware" part is given the illusion of free will to cope with this statistic.

(As I said before, I have absolutely no idea of what I am talking about but this as close as I can get to explaining what is floating around in my head.)

Peace

Edit: for shamefully short reply.






[edit on 7-9-2010 by operation mindcrime]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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double post...??

[edit on 7-9-2010 by operation mindcrime]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 


Nice story.... that would go well in todays age, but, in ancient times, they may or may not have walked around pondering life and existence as such, hence had to be shown by some higher Deity what is the truth.

The question is, did Jesus exist and was he what he said he was?
Same for Moses, did he really exist and talk to "God"


Or am I not understanding the OP...... as usual



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 

Hey OP,
I've been posting similar threads to this one here and there and have myself experienced that absolute truth state, where there was no I to experience it ...if that makes sense.

Anyway, I have found that the majority of ATS'ers are flint arrowhead production company owners. 99% of them dont bother to check into this and they come complete with their own set of belief systems ready in hand to argue.

Whats funny is that anyone who undertakes a road to find out the absolute truth will always end up at the exact same state of Absolute truth. Anything that is not that is just arguing from the state of ignorance of that state.

Oh well, perhaps one day this will be revealed to everyone whether they like it or not. Thats what I vote for a mass forced enlightenment.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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Cool story, but I think you underestimate the degree to which primitives were ignorant of the world around them. Just like we look at just about everything in nature and have some semblance of what it is and how it works, primitives had no idea how anything around them worked. Their lives were completely and utterly surrounded by mystery. Mythology didn't start as a contrivance to keep people under control, but as an almost "obvious" fact that all these natural processes like the sun and the wind and plant growth and animals and people and fire and deadly lightning strikes move and do things of their own accord and therefore "must" be possessed of some sort of spirit. To them it was not "metaphysical speculation"; it was obvious.

On a related note, ever notice that what is forbidden under the old Hebrew kosher rules are almost exactly those things that you would not want to eat without proper food safety techniques? Did the ancient Hebrews know about microorganisms? Of course not. But eat this and get sick, therefore obviously God does not want you eating this.

I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make. I guess it's that I don't quite agree with you on the origin of religion. I don't believe religion was consciously contrived at the beginning (though there was likely some manipulation of the messages of the later monotheistic ones for purposes of control).

I do agree that through spirituality you can see and learn things that cannot be easily explained to most people. There is certainly a difference between secondhand dogma and direct numinous experience.

BTW, your thread title reminds me of the Weird Al song Amish Paradise: "Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart? Well I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art!"




[edit on 8-9-2010 by NewlyAwakened]



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 

dominicus,

It absolutely makes sense!!!


But you see the problem I have with spiritual awakening is this:

In my little story an enlightened man returns to his village to spread the word of how one can become truly aware. Problem is that each individual villager can reach the same point but the entity that is "society" will be broken down. (does that make sense??)

The social structure of the village can be regarded as a single entity. If it's individual parts (you and me) start throwing away their perceived identity, the identity of that structure will also disappear.

We choose to form a society because it gives us the best changes at survival. But as a individual part in that society you have the responsibility for the correct functioning of that social structure. Society demands an active participation. So if you are going to isolate yourself to work on your personal awakening you are actually denying society's right to demand our input!!

So in order to prevent the destruction of that which gives us our advantage (society) the notion of a "God" in that society serves a vital function.

A "God" is necessary for the survival of society and that is why I think, our brain hardwires a "God".......

Peace



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by operation mindcrime
you: Well I could but to break the spell that your ego has over you, you really need to aware this yourself!! It really won't work any other way.


Well stated.


Originally posted by dominicus
Anyway, I have found that the majority of ATS'ers are flint arrowhead production company owners. 99% of them dont bother to check into this and they come complete with their own set of belief systems ready in hand to argue.


Here, here. Or is it hear, hear? Here, hear? Anyhow....

The thing with this topic is...You can't rely on someone else's realization that they put into words and use it as your own. You have to realize this yourself, have the experience, have the aha! of your own egomindpersona. You can't fake it. And the fakers are apparent to those who have realized. It's like a man who watched a TV show and read a book on the witchcraft, trying to explain magick to an experienced sorcerer.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Village Idiot
reply to post by operation mindcrime
 

The question is, did Jesus exist and was he what he said he was?


I believe it is a historical fact that Jesus walked this earth but what he said and if this was true is a bigger question. I think what he said was undoubtedly true (I'll expand on that further on, in this post). But if you were Jesus would you advise people to travel the same path as you did in order to understand?

I believe there is a conflict somewhere in searching/reaching real awareness and basic social functioning. I have not reached any conclusion so far but I think the notion of a "God" is what formed society. Not knowing this "God" is what brings these people together to make up story's in order for them to make sense of it all. It gives a sense of comfort....

Explaining that that "God" is actually a fabric of your imagination would destroy the common bond. Instead those who have reached this point of complete awareness in the past (like Jesus) also must have realized this and must have given them their interpretation (read: fairytale) of the "truth".


Same for Moses, did he really exist and talk to "God"


I believe he did. He also reached a point of complete awareness. But how are you going to explain that which can't be reached with thought?? To a group of refugees?? In the middle of the desert, with the entire Egyptian army on your a..... Society needs to function. We need to work together to survive!! There is really no room for people realizing that the group which they are, really has no logical basis to be a group!!


Or am I not understanding the OP...... as usual


Don't worry, I can't make anything out of it as well.......yet. I'm on free-flow and we see what we come up with.


Peace


edit on 8-9-2010 by operation mindcrime because: double quote tack



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 


I take it this was inspired by Exodus?


Moses did smash the first set of tablets when he found the Isrealites were worshipping the golden calf idol. Exodus 34:1 claims that the second set had the same words as the first but really, I have to wonder if that was just added to convince or is a corruption that convinces people that what they have is the true knowledge when it in fact the commandments might be a dumbed-down version of personal realization for the swine, presented as rules to follow.

The first were directly from God's own "hand" and the second were commanded by God but physically written by the hand of a man. They may be the words but yet not be the wisdom of direct experience.



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