‘US should leave Afghanistan before it is defeated totally’

Originally posted by Reign02
Because how are we going to be totally defeated by a bunch of cowards that hide in the mountains and randomly place road side bombs and randomly launch mortars and rockets at our bases?

I think you just answered your own question.

For a total defeat it would take hundreds maybe thousands of years at this rate...

Actually it's only taken about 7 years to put our economy into the crapper that it's currently in. How much longer do you think we can keep these aggressive wars going? By Free Market means, America could stand to push these wars another 5-10 years before all means are exhausted and the entire country is bankrupt and dead in the water. By Dictatorial means (meaning all resources go to war appropriations, by force, if necessary) we could probably push this War on Terror another 20-25 years before all of America's resources and "alliances" are diminished beyond repair. Then, we'll be sitting ducks for anyone (Mexico or Canada) to come in and give the Separated States of America a good old fashion "Nation Build". But, more than likely it'll be China trying to pick us up and "repair" our economy.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by tyranny22]

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


I'm a liar.... LOL

First off basic training is and was not 12 weeks.... When I went through it was 6 1/2 weeks, and basic in the Air Force is now 8 1/2 weeks long.....

And yea I found out I was deploying as soon as I found out which post I was going to..... While still in Technical school....

And there is plenty of time while downrange to go to school... A lot of people get a lot of schooling done while deployed....

And actually we are stationed at both ARMY posts and a few Air Force installations... and yes I am at a RAF base...

But I really don't have to explain anything to you or anyone so whatever, think I am a liar..... I really could careless bud.

I like how this thread has turned from Afghanistan to calling me a liar and how I am wrong about everything..... But yet again I really don't care. I am not posting on this thread anymore so feel free to talk all the crap you want about me. Just be warned that mods are in route to clean up this mess....

Have a great day,
-Reign aka Mr. Death on Call

Afghanistan is where empires go to die, moreso, where they send their soldiers to die.

The only reason the US is there is because the Afghans wouldn't bow down to the New World Order. So death and destruction by mind controlled slaves and drones.

Violent death against free humanity. Death seems to be winning.

Originally posted by Reign02
reply to post by oozyism

 

you are hopeless..... We DID train the Taliban to fight off the Russians FFS, WE GAVE THEM WEAPONS AND TRAINED THEM IN GUERILLA WARFARE.......

You didn't train them, you just poured money, just like billions of Muslims, for you to take all the credit is an insult for the rest of the world who helped the Mujahideen.. Everything went through Pakistan, Pakistan put its own security at risk, not America.. America was in the back ground hiding..

The only thing the US gave was the stingers the Mujahideen appreciated that, that is what brought the helicopters down, now all the new Mujahideen need is those same stingers to end the occupation, and they will get it soon, but obviously not from the US..

I'm a tool? LOL!!! And you are NOT exposing the truth.... You are spreading anti-US propaganda.....

Well if the US didn't invade Afghanistan using a bunch of BS pretext I wouldn't be able to talk would I??

You said this:
"Last I remember the US gave Afghanistan to Pakistan, you don't know nothing about politics of that region, or world politics as a whole, last I remember you think the aborigine Jews took over Palestine when the truth is, it was the US who gave Palestine to world wide Zionist Jews. The aboridgine Jews suffered because of it.

You don't know nothing about history, you believe what you are told, yeah, if you don't believe me, think before you speak. I have debated with your kind thousands of times before, and you all think exactly the same, because you all have been brainwashed by the exact same people. "

Just because US "gave" it to Pakistan doesn't mean that Pakistan/Indian news organizations know what is going on in Afghanistan.....
I never said ANYTHING about Jews taking over Palestine.... I do not believe everything I am told......

Well Pakistan is right next to Afghanistan so I bet they know much more because they are effected by the conflict as much as Afghanistan, Iran and all the other neighbors.. America is in a whole different continent..

From what I know, arrogant people won't care unless it effects them, and I sure damn know Afghanistan doesn't effect America, except the NWO..

Why are you putting words in my mouth that I didn't say? That just shows how stupid and how full of propaganda you are....

I am fighting a hopeless battle against all of you ignorant morons who think you know it all. I am done trying to tell you the TRUTH, go on and keep spreading your lies about US military.... Don't take anything that a Special Ops veteran tells you to heart........ I have been in both Iraq and Afghanistan probably more years than you have been able to drive a car..... [snip]

Just because you went there with the pretext of Al-Qaeda and 9/11 just goes to show you don't know much.. My whole family tree lives in Afghanistan except me and my family, excluding my mom because she is there right now, in Kabul..

Originally posted by harryhaller
Afghanistan is where empires go to die, moreso, where they send their soldiers to die.

The only reason the US is there is because the Afghans wouldn't bow down to the New World Order. So death and destruction by mind controlled slaves and drones.

Violent death against free humanity. Death seems to be winning.

Well, they also have opium. In all seriousness, the drug companies do also need the drug. Where do you think they buy it? I don't think Burma sells much to the US, and they are the world's second largest grower.

Do think General Petraeus might Betray us?

Judging from history, Afghanistan is where empires go to DIE. If you cannot see this then either you are financially invested in the war industry and the corruption it spawns or you simply watch too much FauxNooz... oh wait! maybe I/m repeating myself?


ok, I am not only repeating MYSELF. apparantly I am repeating DEESELL ALSO

[edit on 7-9-2010 by AntiShyster]

PS. it would be very revealing, I think, to see emotional profiles done on folks like the contrary chauvinist who is contending so pathetically with the OP...

As for me, I think the the 'ignore list' should be modified to hold more than ten....

[edit on 7-9-2010 by AntiShyster]

Originally posted by oozyism
Last I heard Afghanistan was a moderate nation, with the best Universities in the Middle East, and last I remember Afghans wore miniskirts in cold winter of Kabul in Kabul University where my Dad studied civil Engineering.. [snip]

Hey Sunshine...
Was this before the Mostly Foreign Taliban took power and started shooting and stoning any females who didn't follow their twisted view of Islam?

Oh wait, Yes it was. Never mind.

"IF they REALLY WANT US OUT then they would stop killing innocent civilians and stop trying to kill us...."

What? I thought they kill you because they want you out, not because they want you to stay there.. [snip]

I noticed you skipped his reference to the fact that they are killing innocent women and children on a daily bases but that's ok right?

I mean as long as they are fighting for the freedom to stone or shoot females as they please becuase they want to wear those miniskirts you mentioned or try to get an education right?

Oh wait that was AGAIN before the Mostly Foreign Taliban took power and enforced their twisted version of Islam.

reply to post by SLAYER69

It's one thing to support a cause it's quite another to blindly follow and support such groups and ignore the fact that they are also guilty of horrendous crimes.

To blindly support a group without a critical self appraisal is a classic example of being Brainwashed into believing anything that is placed in front of you as if it's the word of God.

Slay, thank you for saying this. It has needed to be said for quite sometime. When we say anything against radical Islam, we are typically bombarded with defensive people, accusing us of all manner of racism and bigotry.

It is almost as if there is an inherent belief among some, that this group of people are incapable of any wrongdoing whatsoever. It is the nature of the human, to sometimes be wrong.

Anytime a thread is made about a recent beheading or stoning, there is a group of people who come in and call it propaganda, along with the usual name-calling and methods of intimidation.

When any of these barbaric methods are employed, why can't the people of Islam stand up and say "Yes! This sucks!"

Why continue to try and defend it?

Originally posted by SLAYER69


Hey Sunshine...
Was this before the Mostly Foreign Taliban took power and started shooting and stoning any females who didn't follow their twisted view of Islam?

Oh wait, Yes it was. Never mind.

WOW that was a quick two star, it is like people follow you around and give you stars

Anyways, the Taliban didn't exist back then, last I remember they were organized by the CIA by the help of Pakistan to stir trouble in moderate Afghanistan against the communist regime.. I know what you are gonna say next, it was the cold war, so it is all JOLY and HANDY DANDY. Yup, I can read your mind.

I noticed you skipped his reference to the fact that they are killing innocent women and children on a daily bases but that's ok right?

They do, I thought it was Americans who die in daily bases

But in all fairness, do you really think I will deny the death of civilians on both sides? Last I checked America with its Jets, Drones, guided missiles etc kill innocent people, so expect the resistance with their BS bombs to do it also. It goes two ways.. My argument is that US is not much different than the Taliban, US just has more intel and precise targeting weapons.

I mean as long as they are fighting for the freedom to stone or shoot females as they please becuase they want to wear those miniskirts you mentioned or try to get an education right?

Well if they want to live that way, let them.. You guys have the freedom to treat your women like whores and sex slaves, no one has invaded the US yet..

Oh wait that was AGAIN before the Mostly Foreign Taliban took power and enforced their twisted version of Islam.

reply to post by oozyism

But in all fairness, do you really think I will deny the death of civilians on both sides? Last I checked America with its Jets, Drones, guided missiles etc kill innocent people, so expect the resistance with their BS bombs to do it also. It goes two ways.. My argument is that US is not much different than the Taliban, US just has more intel and precise targeting weapons.

Sure civilians have been killed by NATO coalition forces.

reply to post by oozyism

Anyways, the Taliban didn't exist back then, last I remember they were organized by the CIA by the help of Pakistan to stir trouble in moderate Afghanistan against the communist regime.. I know what you are gonna say next, it was the cold war, so it is all JOLY and HANDY DANDY. Yup, I can read your mind.

Youre right, back then it was called the Mujahideen, not the Taliban, but that really doesnt make a difference, different name, same purpose.......

Btw from what i remember, Osama was Mujahideen , he was a prominent organizer and financier of an all-Arab Islamist group of foreign volunteers his Maktab al-Khadamat funnelled money, arms into Afghanistan....and since he came from a wealthy wealthy family , he probably really didnt need that much help to LATER form the Taliban.....

Once again, you omit much to serve your own purpose.....

But in all fairness, do you really think I will deny the death of civilians on both sides? Last I checked America with its Jets, Drones, guided missiles etc kill innocent people, so expect the resistance with their BS bombs to do it also. It goes two ways.. My argument is that US is not much different than the Taliban, US just has more intel and precise targeting weapons.

The numbers of civilian deaths caused by the Taliban and youre "freedom fighters" are much much higher then ACCIDENTAL civilian deaths from American troops.......

The key difference here is, YOUR buddies actions were INTENTIONAL.....and were meant to kill civilians, women and children........ours were not.....

And before you say they werent, explain running into Mosques, Churches, Schools and Market places?

Well if they want to live that way, let them.. You guys have the freedom to treat your women like whores and sex slaves, no one has invaded the US yet..

Some people treat women badly here in the US, this is true.......however it is not MANDATED by our religion, theres a huge difference.....

LOL, they asked to turn him over with no evidence of any guilt, last I checked even the FBI doesn't link 9/11 to Osama Bin Laden.. The Taliban said they would allow Osama Bin Laden to be tried in court lol, what else did the US want? OHHH wait, US wanted Afghanistan, not Osama..

Apparently you dont remember the well documented instance of Osama and many factions in the Taliban coming out and saying they were responsible for 9/11 do you?

You should really stop getting your information from taliban sympathizers

Last I remember the Taliban said the fight will start when the the US is in Afghanistan lol, not when the bombings occurred.. They were right, the fight did start, and now who is tasting the same fate as USSR?

Refer to suggestion above

I support any resistance group. I don't agree with the US world domination policy, especially when it has a clause which says, "with any means necessary".. Last time I checked you guys even nuked the hell out of Japan for global domination, cause a civil war in Europe for Global domination.. Now the last group trying to stop that Global Domination is Muslims, give them credit mate, they are fighting the NWO.. I support any resistance group. I don't agree with the US world domination policy, especially when it has a clause which says, "with any means necessary".. Last time I checked you guys even nuked the hell out of Japan for global domination, cause a civil war in Europe for Global domination.. Now the last group trying to stop that Global Domination is Muslims, give them credit mate, they are fighting the NWO..

You support any resistance group, and dont agree with US domination, HOWEVER you DO agree with Extremist groups and their purpose?

Hmm well if everyone in the world was muslim, which is what you seem to promote, seeing as how you back so many groups pushing this agenda, wouldnt that make them a type of NWO?

Wheres the freedom in trying to make everyone Muslim Ooz?

Thats hypocrisy, you only support the agenda if its pro Muslim, and if it fits your ideals.........

Actually if they were the minority you wouldn't be facing the problems you are facing right now..

Actually it is the minority, its the insurgents that are causing problems, the tribal leaders work very well with military forces......

I guess the flip side is, I could tell you the same thing, just because your "freedom" fighters want to be there, doesnt mean they want them there.....

[edit on 7-9-2010 by ManBehindTheMask]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I don't think we are having a discussion Slayer lol.. We are doing something very, very bad.. You are bringing your elderly as to my level which is not good..

The point of this thread is that the resistance is moving to the north, we can discuss the rest later

The US commander claims it is because more pressure is put on their stronghold down south therefore they are spreading..

I claim that the resistance is giving birth to the north and east Afghanistan, rather than being moved..

Last resistance group to join the fight is the followers of Ahmad Shah Massoud.. My mom's cousin's cousin Yeah my mom is from Panjshir..

Know before speak

Crap... Reign02 you're Combat Control?? Kudos man, that's a badass AFSC next to PJ's. Anyone have any doubts... you shouldn't. He's a forward controller, he makes airfields where their isn't any for the spec ops in other branches, without him there isn't spec ops.

Yeah Afghanistan killed Russia during the cold war WITH our money, our support and most of all OUR TRAINING. I see that crap that Ooz is always posting about the "inevitable" demise of the US... sorry but it's not happening. Year for year, we are faring much better than the Russians ever dreamed of doing, even if we continue to lose lives.

Are any of these wars justified... no, but that doesn't mean drop support, turn tail and hide. Unfortunately we started this mess, leaving would cause a nasty power vacuum, creating a worse mess than when we stepped in.

Oozy, What the you should worry about is the private armies coming in... they aren't going to abide by Geneva conventions, nor are they going to have ever changing ROE's. When they replace the US. Armed Forces (they will) the ground will be soaked with blood because mercs don't care about life only about money.

Originally posted by Reign02
reply to post by endlessknowledge

 

Well it's really hard to keep your cool when a bunch of ignorant people (everyone on this thread pretty much) gangs up on someone. And just because I said that I hope I am the one who walks by and laughs. Yea so what.... My brothers die everyday for little ungrateful pricks like you. Reguardless if the war is wrong or right don't you ever freaking talk bad about the people who no matter what will risk their own lives for their country and for the people of that country even if you think that it is all BS.

And that goes for every person in the US, UK, and Australia and all their soldiers.

Don't hate the players hate the game........

And shame to ALL of you!!!!!!!

[snip]

So what if others don't agree with you? Who do you think you are? Oh that's right, you know all but everyone else is "ignorant" and even deserve to die so you could laugh at them.

Your self-righteous attitude belongs in the toilet!!!

You think your doing a favor for me by fighting those who according to you your own government funded and trained? That's the biggest joke ever.

Your power hungry leaders must really love having brainwashed tools such as you as pawns. Not only do you help fight illegal wars for them without question, you actually think your doing a favor to others.

Well news flash, all your really doing is to help the imperialistic agenda. You can stroke your own ego all you want with how your so great for "bringing freedom to the world", but the fact is that your are just a pawn in a very dirty game.

oh but wait, how dare we question the US government and its military?? They are here to protect us all and all they want to do is make the world a safer and better place for us all.

My god..get a clue.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by endlessknowledge]





Mod Edit: Personal comment removed. Please see Courtesy Is Mandatory. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 7/9/10 by JAK]

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

The key difference here is, YOUR buddies actions were INTENTIONAL.....and were meant to kill civilians, women and children........ours were not.....

And before you say they werent, explain running into Mosques, Churches, Schools and Market places?

Yeah those very same Taliban-Freedom Fighters in Pakistan just liberated another 14 people from their lives and now brings the total for the past couple of weeks to 102 civilians liberated.

Originally posted by oozyism
Know before speak

Two dozen dead in Pakistan bombing

The attack in Kohat, situated between Taliban insurgent strongholds in Pakistan's tribal areas and the volatile city of Peshawar, was the fourth militant strike in the country in a week. At least 102 people have been killed in those blasts.

Having been there, done that, it's not about U.S. forces being destroyed completely, its about our ability to continue an extremely costly war against a guerilla force, one that has just as much, if not more control over the general population than we do.

"Freedom" as we know it in the states is not a value or belief system held dear for the Afghans. They have never known this concept in practice, and anything we try to set up in-country is as good as ripped down the second we leave it alone.

We learned it in Vietnam, we learned it in Iraq, and by god, we are learning it in the Stan. The Taliban are a bunch of violent, ignorant and horribly "soulless" individuals. You are talking about an enemy with the education of a U.S. American 5-year old, but with the resolve and weaponry to kill any and everybody they feel like. We will not "win" a war in which our enemy is willing to blow-up, shoot, torture or decapitate civilians, from infants to adults.

The usual line of "well we need to be there because it is a safe-zone for terrorists" does not cut it. There are dozens of countries that harbor "terrorists" or enemy combatants. It's not like these insurgents are magical-ing themselves in Afghanistan or Iraq, they usually come across the border from another country, prepared to die for their cause.

Until the U.S. is willing to lay waste to cities, townships and civilians right alongside the enemy combatants, we are waging an unwinnable "war." I do not wish to see our ROE (rules of engagement) get to that low of a point, and as a veteran of 4 deployments to Afghanistan, I advise we pack up, apologize for our ignorance and move our troops stateside. Every day we are occupying Afghanistan, we are creating enemies. People who could care less about learning who we are and what our culture is about. People who just want to see the blood of U.S. Americans run through the dirt and sand.

People need to drop this concept of "winning" a conflict. Nobody F____ing wins, period. This isn't a football game, it is the most primal and violent thing we can do as a species. The Taliban makes for great targets, they really are a bunch of brainwashed morons with no concept of reality, and I had no problems engaging the same pack of idiots who I witnessed murdering or dismembering civilian children. The U.S. has killed MANY, MANY civilians between our conflicts in the Middle-East, however it has never been the intention (to my knowledge) to kill or murder the civilian population. The same logic that allows the Taliban to exist also allows for civilians to take up arms against the U.S. for accidental civilian casualties, while conveniently forgetting the local Afghans who executed men, fathers, sons for speaking with U.S. soldiers. The same a__holes who chopped the arms, hands, feet and legs off of children who received medical treatment from a corpsman or medic.

I believe the official military term for our situation is a clusterf____. We need to re-evaluate our situation, drop the idiotic ego and pull out.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by Shark VA84]

The most effective way to win against America is to cause enough collateral damage that could turn the media & public into panic such as Tet Offensive. Until then, I highly doubt, US politicians are going to back down and realize they can't be Hitler forever. World domination is sweet but it never last. Study the history.

Oh.. CIA is very effective with drug operation. There's no need to spend too much for conquest. The economy is already very bad at the moment.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by EasternShadow]

My observation is that the war between Islam and the rest of the world is continuing to heat up. People in the U.S. support the war in Afghanistan, and it looks like that support is growing.

The absolute best the Taliban can hope for is to drive the U.S. our of Afghanistan, but they will never achieve victory.

U.S. casualties are not enough to get people behind an anti-war movement, so the U.S. will remain in Afghanistan as long as it takes, and Iraq as well.

The West is quickly figuring out that there never will be peace with Islam, not in its current state. Harsher and harsher measures will be applied until a reasonable outcome. In the next decade as Middle East oil dries up, and the money disappears, the Muslim world will find itself in dire straights, surrounded by people that they have made their enemies.

If there is truly a moderate majority, they had better start to assert themselves very soon.

Originally posted by brutalsun
Crap... Reign02 you're Combat Control?? Kudos man, that's a badass AFSC next to PJ's. Anyone have any doubts... you shouldn't. He's a forward controller, he makes airfields where their isn't any for the spec ops in other branches, without him there isn't spec ops

No, he isn't CCT. He claims to be a 1C4X1, only roughly 5% of them are SpecOps. CCT is a 1C2X1.

Yeah Afghanistan killed Russia during the cold war WITH our money, our support and most of all OUR TRAINING. I see that crap that Ooz is always posting about the "inevitable" demise of the US... sorry but it's not happening. Year for year, we are faring much better than the Russians ever dreamed of doing, even if we continue to lose lives.

Afghani's didn't really need our help, IMO. No empire in history has ever conquered them. These people come from eras of warfare.

Are any of these wars justified... no, but that doesn't mean drop support, turn tail and hide. Unfortunately we started this mess, leaving would cause a nasty power vacuum, creating a worse mess than when we stepped in.

If they aren't justified, than who are would we be hiding from if we left?

Oozy, What the you should worry about is the private armies coming in... they aren't going to abide by Geneva conventions, nor are they going to have ever changing ROE's. When they replace the US. Armed Forces (they will) the ground will be soaked with blood because mercs don't care about life only about money.

Military personnel kill people. I don't see how Blackwater, which is made up of mostly Vets, is going to be a worse alternative than what we have now.

Originally posted by Reign02
I'm a liar.... LOL

At least you just admit it and save every one time.

First off basic training is and was not 12 weeks.... When I went through it was 6 1/2 weeks, and basic in the Air Force is now 8 1/2 weeks long.....

When I enlisted in 03 I was lucky enough to be a test flight. Part of my BMT involved training in Kelly. That's why I wasn't sure how long it was back then.

And yea I found out I was deploying as soon as I found out which post I was going to..... While still in Technical school....

Duh.

As I stated, that was likely. The point of contention isn't that you deployed.

And there is plenty of time while downrange to go to school... A lot of people get a lot of schooling done while deployed....

But you didn't just spend time down range. You spent time deployed and working in hostile situations if you were a tier 2 asset. It would take 6 years for a masters going full time. Your off and on deployment and training regimen would make it impossible for you to be 26 and having accomplished all that.

But I really don't have to explain anything to you or anyone so whatever, think I am a liar..... I really could careless bud.

That's because you can't explain anything to anyone. You might fool those who are ignorant about that particular career field. But you won't be fooling me.

Have a great day,
-Reign aka Mr. Death on Call

I love it. You got page after page of specious claims but when I show up you gotta go. Enjoy playing make-believe.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by AdAbsurdum]

[edit on 7-9-2010 by AdAbsurdum]