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Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by FDNY343
They also made these statements...
"As the steel columns at the core of the Twin Towers collapsed, the floors they supported fell on each other like two stacks of pancakes."
"Once the structural support of the upper floors is removed, a few falling floors can bring down an entire building."
This was before they were proven wrong, and NIST changed their mind on the 'pancake collapse' hypothesis.
Nat Geo has no credibility, and I don't need them to do tests for me. It's no more relevant than the Unpopular Mechanics tabloid hit piece.
Originally posted by ANOK
This is such a weak claim.
We know the strength of materials, we know physics. We know Newtons laws of motion, and what happens when objects collide. We know, and so does NIST, that the plane impacts had very little to do with the final collapses. We know an hours worth of fire is not enough to transfer heat to thousands of tons of steel to make it fail from its own weight.
If you don't know this stuff then on what grounds can you claim the OS is correct? None, you work on nothing but faith.
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
Originally posted by FDNY343
Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by seedofchucky
You don't even need to build anything to prove it's not possible.
Just take some light construction steel and jet fuel and light a fire under it. See if it sags after an hour.
Already done, and in less than 4 minutes IIRC.
Nat Geo did it. They even put a load on the steel.
Guess what happened?
What good are tests that are basically IDIOTIC?
Nat Geo could compute the temperatures ahead of time and the thickness of steel to use. They could even have conducted the tests ahead of time to be sure it did what they wanted.
The THICKNESS OF STEEL in the columns on the 81st LEVEL of the south tower was determined by how much weight that steel had to support which was another 29 stories.
So when do we ever hear how thick that steel was or how many tons of steel were on that LEVEL?
Then there is the matter of the airflow in the Nat Geo demonstration. They created a FIRE STORM. The exhaust air could flow straight up and fresh air could flow in from 360 degrees. Those are not the conditions of the WTC fires. Exhaust flow was blocked by the floors above and the input was limited by the holes created by the plane and explosions.
psik
Originally posted by FDNY343
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
Originally posted by FDNY343
Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by seedofchucky
You don't even need to build anything to prove it's not possible.
Just take some light construction steel and jet fuel and light a fire under it. See if it sags after an hour.
Already done, and in less than 4 minutes IIRC.
Nat Geo did it. They even put a load on the steel.
Guess what happened?
What good are tests that are basically IDIOTIC?
Nat Geo could compute the temperatures ahead of time and the thickness of steel to use. They could even have conducted the tests ahead of time to be sure it did what they wanted.
The THICKNESS OF STEEL in the columns on the 81st LEVEL of the south tower was determined by how much weight that steel had to support which was another 29 stories.
So when do we ever hear how thick that steel was or how many tons of steel were on that LEVEL?
Then there is the matter of the airflow in the Nat Geo demonstration. They created a FIRE STORM. The exhaust air could flow straight up and fresh air could flow in from 360 degrees. Those are not the conditions of the WTC fires. Exhaust flow was blocked by the floors above and the input was limited by the holes created by the plane and explosions.
psik
Horse****. If anything, the fire conditions in the WTC would have been WORSE than what is shown in the Nat Geo test.
Why you ask?
Heat buildup at the ceiling.
No air? Go google "Stack Effect" or "Chimney Effect" and tell me what you find out.
Lastly, do you not realize how much air could have been brought in through that hole?
I estimate around 1,000 cubic feet per minute given the size of the hole, and the size of the fires.
Originally posted by FDNY343
And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
They showed without a doubt that a fire would cause the failure of a beam simmilar to the ones found in the WTC with just jet fuel. In less than 4 minutes.
When do you plan on submitting your paper to a respectable, peer-reviewed journal, proving NIST wrong?
Originally posted by ANOK
And they didn't prove that failure of a truss can lead to complete global collapse through the path of most resistance. So they fail.
Where is your peer reviewed journal proving the OS correct? In fact where is there ANY peer reviewed journal proving the OS correct?
After reviewing the mechanics of their collapse, the motion during
the crushing of one floor (or group of floors) and its energetics are analyzed, and a dynamic one-dimensional continuum model of
progressive collapse is developed.
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
The exhaust air had to go out through that hole also. All you have to do is watch the video and see where the smoke came from.
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
How much hot air was concentrating near the ceiling if it was flowing out sideways through the hole for the plane and blown out windows?
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
How hot did the fire get with weak air flow?
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
So how could it get hot enough to start a collapse?
Originally posted by psikeyhackr
But then how thick was the steel of the columns at the 81st floor of the south tower? JEEZ! We can't even get the tons of steel on every level.
psik
Originally posted by ANOK
Originally posted by FDNY343
And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
It means they will print anything, they lose their credibility. How can you trust what they say when they have been shown to tell lies?
They showed without a doubt that a fire would cause the failure of a beam simmilar to the ones found in the WTC with just jet fuel. In less than 4 minutes.
And they didn't prove that failure of a truss can lead to complete global collapse through the path of most resistance. So they fail.
When do you plan on submitting your paper to a respectable, peer-reviewed journal, proving NIST wrong?
Me not doing that does not mean the OS is correct, sorry. Please stick to the points of discussion, my personal actions outside of this forum are irrelevant.
Where is your peer reviewed journal proving the OS correct? In fact where is there ANY peer reviewed journal proving the OS correct?
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Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by remymartin
It appears to me that the debris from the WTC is going faster than the collapse; only slightly, but it is accelerating faster than the building. I think the main difference between that debris and the debris seen in the OP is that in the demolition video, the concrete buckles and impacts the debris that is already in the air, turning the debris into faster-than-free-fall projectiles.
Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by remymartin
No, not every piece. Only many of them. Stop insulting me. There is hardly enough height from which the debris is falling to draw any exact comparisons or observations.
Originally posted by remymartin
Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by remymartin
No, not every piece. Only many of them. Stop insulting me. There is hardly enough height from which the debris is falling to draw any exact comparisons or observations.
I have not insulted you.
If you cant draw any comparisons or observations why start this thread. you said in the op "The point of it all is, however, that these are demolitions carried out with no explosives whatsoever and allow for the idea of the official story of the WTC collapses to actually become conceivable"
If I cant use those vids for comparison how can you.
I realized the faults in using those videos as comparative evidence and no longer rely on them. It is your fault in not realizing that people can and do change their understandings as time goes on.
Originally posted by FDNY343
Who printed that?
It wasn't a truss failure that caused the global collapse. That is a strawman.
You keep saying the path of most resistance. Of course that is where it went. Where else should it have gone? Sideways? Not happening. Sorry.
The Law of Action-Reaction (Revisited)
A collision is an interaction between two objects that have made contact (usually) with each other. As in any interaction, a collision results in a force being applied to the two colliding objects. Newton's laws of motion govern such collisions. In the second unit of The Physics Classroom, Newton's third law of motion was introduced and discussed. It was said that...
... in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the force on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object. The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object. Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs...
...In accord with Newton's second law of motion, the acceleration of an object is dependent upon both force and mass. Thus, if the colliding objects have unequal mass, they will have unequal accelerations as a result of the contact force that results during the collision.
1. While driving down the road, a firefly strikes the windshield of a bus and makes a quite obvious mess in front of the face of the driver. This is a clear case of Newton's third law of motion. The firefly hit the bus and the bus hits the firefly. Which of the two forces is greater: the force on the firefly or the force on the bus?
No, it certainly mean that the OS is correct, but it certainly shows that NOBODY have been able to prove it wrong.
Originally posted by ANOK
Err, National Geographic? Yes they get things wrong, this is my point. They are willing to print whatever without checking, what does that tell you?
Originally posted by ANOK
Oh, so what is the theory now then?
Originally posted by ANOK
I don't even know where to start with this one. Please go learn Newtons laws of motion.
The Law of Action-Reaction (Revisited)
A collision is an interaction between two objects that have made contact (usually) with each other. As in any interaction, a collision results in a force being applied to the two colliding objects. Newton's laws of motion govern such collisions. In the second unit of The Physics Classroom, Newton's third law of motion was introduced and discussed. It was said that...
... in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the force on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object. The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object. Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs...
...In accord with Newton's second law of motion, the acceleration of an object is dependent upon both force and mass. Thus, if the colliding objects have unequal mass, they will have unequal accelerations as a result of the contact force that results during the collision.
Originally posted by ANOK
Answer this question...
1. While driving down the road, a firefly strikes the windshield of a bus and makes a quite obvious mess in front of the face of the driver. This is a clear case of Newton's third law of motion. The firefly hit the bus and the bus hits the firefly. Which of the two forces is greater: the force on the firefly or the force on the bus?
www.physicsclassroom.com...
Originally posted by ANOK
Sorry but there was not enough floors to collapse the whole building. The falling floors would be destroyed along with the static floors, so you would run out of falling floors before all the static floors are destroyed.
Originally posted by ANOK
Who needs to PROVE it's wrong? There is enough doubt in its claims to warrant a new investigation. Why are you debunkers so scared of a new investigation?
Originally posted by ANOK
Nothing in your list proves the OS correct.edit on 2/12/2011 by ANOK because: type