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Reliability of modern technology.

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posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 09:41 PM
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I disagree with the electronics side of things, I used to work on components on MRI machines. The quality of the board assemblies is one problem. One cold solder and when the unit heats up that solder melts making the board useless. The company I worked for used to buy sub-par components from Russia cuz they was cheap. When you try and cut corners you get what you pay for.




posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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hmmm, not sure on the price of steel, good question though, however i can assure you there is a lot more steel in a 76 malibu than there is in a 2010. however it is possible that the cost of steel has risen that much. also though if you think about it, what the new one has that the older one doesn't is an onboard computer, electric seats, cd player with probably at least 4 speakers. traction control, airbags all around, and more plastic than the mattel factory, maybe all that has something to do with it, which comes back around to my original point, do we really need all that, i mean a/c is nice in the summer, but is it necessary? i think all the little things that are much more available this day in age are what's causing the obesity problem, for one, and causing people to get soft. if it all went to hell and we didn't have all the niceties any more, could we survive?

well i guess that wasn't my original point, but this discussion has brought that reaccuring thought into my head.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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Here is a link to a table of average car prices. I won't post a direct link as it's an XLS file and people might not want to download it for security purposes.

The Average cost of a car (this is the adjusted for inflation or "real dollar" prices) in 1976 was $20,501 in 2008 it was $23,051 so it's more or less exactly the same.

cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb29/Spreadsheets/Table10_11.xls



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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As for the top of the line TV thing. I don't really know how to judge what would be comparable to the Zenith now, there is a TV here that costs over $2million I'm hoping you get a lifetime guarantee with that



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by davespanners
 


wow $2,000,000. that must be one hell of a boob tube huh?

and on the post before yours, dave.

if that is so, then did our wages drop as a whole?
because a chevy malibu was a pretty avarage car by 76, i mean there was no SS454 or even a laguna S-3 by then so, what's up with that?



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by RestingInPieces
 


RestingInPieces,

Thanks for giving people more credit than is deserved... it's nice to see.

It is my contention that the more technologically advanced we get, the more intelligent our technology should be.

If you have a component that has hundreds of working parts, chances are that it is -bad design-.

The technology should not be getting more "complicated". The technology should be more practical.

But how would companies stay in business if their products were more perfect? They know that people wouldn't spend $2000 on something that only cost $20 for parts so that they could pay their laborer $1000 and keep $800 profit for themselves to build 40 more and sell all those for $80,000 and pay the laborer(s) $40,000 and then ...etc... if you carry that pattern out, actually, you end up with quite a bit of money for the entire company and then the company can more or less retire to the point where the company becomes a replacement part company and less is required to live and then better tech comes along and that company is finally laid to rest and the people can live their merry lives knowing they contributed while they were here!.......

No, it's too intelligent. Power. Power. POWER. Advertising eats up a bunch of those costs. And advertising is sold by people who are infinitely rich because they own media and media is something people will NEVER put down! When you own peoples' time, you are filthy rich and the greedy, instead of doing business the smart way, go the media advertising direction... And, of course, the government regulates how business is allowed to act in large part these days so it is hard to get your name out or show your products or do business a certain way without jumping through flaming hoops because the government is in bed with the big corporations because the media = peoples' time and the government wants more power which means getting peoples' time (The most valuable commodity on the planet is the time of a more-or-less living human being!)

Done with super-tired rant.

Look up a company called Thermax for a company that more-or-less does it right. Atleast they did about 8 years ago. Their technology is incredibly simple, lasts a long time (especially if you take care of it properly), and the people who sell it earn a lot of money for themselves just for selling it.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by dave_welch
 


I haven't got any idea about the American car market being English but I can only make a guess that they decided to try and market the car as more upmarket / middle class and priced it to appeal to that kind of person.

Theres a quote here from the wiki page


The Malibu was redesigned for the 2008 model year by Bryan Nesbitt,[12] under the direction of GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz — who was determined to make the nameplate competitive with Japanese mid-size cars


Sometimes when your selling things a low price can actually be a disadvantage, customers are not going to believe you car is as good as a Mercedes / Lexus or whatever if it costs half as much, and people don't feel good parking a "cheap" car outside of the golf club. Marketing / advertising works in odd ways sometimes



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


hey tarzanbeta, i think you just said what i've been trying to say for a while now, KUDOS!

also, restinginpieces, no disrespect torwards you because i respect your opinion, and its differences in opinions that i wanted from this post, but you seem to be a bit of a technophile, lol, not that that's a bad thing, but well, i was just getting at was the old axiom "keep it simple stupid!" i don't know who said that, but it's always been a favorite of mine.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by davespanners
 


once again, another good point dave!

must be the name! haha



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


I have to disagree with the Media part a little, Lots and lots of traditional media is going out of business at the moment, There is a massive price war in printed Newspapers in the UK with the Evening Standard now being completely free and surviving on advertising revenue alone. Hundreds of magazines (some of which I have written for) have gone out of business and the ones that are left are operating on a skeleton staff and barely turning any profit at all.

I don't know about the TV industry well enough to comment,



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


I have to disagree with the Media part a little, Lots and lots of traditional media is going out of business at the moment, There is a massive price war in printed Newspapers in the UK with the Evening Standard now being completely free and surviving on advertising revenue alone. Hundreds of magazines (some of which I have written for) have gone out of business and the ones that are left are operating on a skeleton staff and barely turning any profit at all.

I don't know about the TV industry well enough to comment,


I have to admit that I was referring to TV. Those channels exist forever as air time. That was my point.

Sorry I didn't even give a thought to newspapers and the like... but, these days, if you have to put a quarter in a machine and push a button, you're probably not gonna get it. TVs, however, are on all over the place in cities. Just walk in somewhere.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by soontide
actually, planned obsolescence is a fact of life in today's marketplace. If an automobile lasted 500k miles, then no auto manufacturer could afford to stay in business.


... because no average consumer could afford to buy it.

Oh, and when do the parts go obsolete? They don't. You have no idea what you are talking about.



The truth of the matter is that the component that usually fails on newer vehicles is rarely electronic. It is usually mechanical and meant to go bad at a apecific milleage. This is why most newer vehicles have timing belts insted of timing chains, Why heads are made from aluminum and not carbon fiber, which is both lighter and more heat resistant.


You are absolutely silly. Next you'll say that break pads and tires are planned to wear out too.



Another poster brought up the fsct that fuel milleage hasn't really changed all that much. Unfortunately, I disagree. Gas milleage has gotten mutch worse over the past twenty years. I had a honda civic crx back in the '80s that averaged 40 mpg. The ford fiesta got milleage around the same. In the '90s, this changed as more and more large vehicles were introduced. Vehicles like the ford "exploder" and or the chevy blazer that got horrible milleage and were notorious for mechanical issues.


When you are talking about smaller vehicles and smaller engines vs larger vehicles and larger engines, you should even have to mention what you just di.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by dave_welch

Originally posted by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by RestingInPieces
 




It's attitudes like that which put us in the dark ages.


i disagree, it's attitudes like yours , which make us less dependent. if you can fix or own stuff, you have become that much more independant. take cars for example, 40 years ago, most regular maintenance was done by the owner, but as things became more complicated it became specialized work, some vehicles now days, you can even check the oil on, you just have to go till the light comes on.


Basically, you are just saying you lack the knowledge for the repair.



example #2: before the advent of fast food, most men and women could cook for themselve, but if you go to a college or high school today, my money says that less than 40% can prepare their own food. let alone grow it. or raise animals for meat.


You never went to college, obviously.



and exasmple #3. the internet. now as much as i love the convinience of it. and many people would argue that people as a whole are smarter and more educated because of it, i'd have to disagree. most kids nowadays don't go for books, just the free internet so they can go on facebook ect. most people don't know what true research is, as much as i like wikipedia, too many people see it as an end all reference guide. in short, the internet has made us more dependant and lazy.


I agree 100% with that. I come across a lot of people on ATS who go out on the internet and read a few articles on something and then think they are some kind of professor in the subject. If you try to honestly correct them, then they won't even hear it.

[edit on 5-9-2010 by RestingInPieces]



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by dave_welch
ok, you have a good point there and i'll agree electronics were more expensive then but what about this?

Chevrolet Malibu $3,671 1976
1976 9,226.48 = average wage

2010 chevy malibu 21,975
2010 average wage 41,334.97

somewhere the price of two comperable cars went from a third of an average wage to over half... what happened there??


The wage includes the people who are paid to design/build the auto mobiles



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by RestingInPieces
 


i have to agree with you there, i mean that's pretty funny the brake pads and tires part, nice! also though, my main example of the electronic problems (which i forgot to post in response to that guy) was that recent problem with the toyota prius. brake pedals and gas pedals should be the main things to always remain mechanical, not electrical, it's just more reliable on just a vital (and possibly) dangerous part of a vehicle's operation.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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Semiconductors are pretty reliable even from the cheapest manufacturers.
The problem comes from accessory components, the balance of the rest of the system.

Capacitors have always been a problem. In older equipment, when its performance slowly degrades, they are the thing that is dying. It is usually the ones in the power supply that go because they are subjected to higher temps. Replacing of the caps will usually revive equipment suffering from slow degradation.

In newer equipment they have become a major problem.
Just do a google for “bad caps”

www.khopdi.com...

hardforum.com...

www.badcaps.net...

jimwarholic.com...

They are a major reason for failure of modern equipment. They either short out and take out solid state equipment, or stop filtering the voltage they are put there to filter and the unfiltered voltage destroys down stream electronics.

If you catch it quick enough, you can usually replace the bad ones and bring something back to life.

The other major problem is cold solder joints, or solder joints that have cracked from heat fatigue.

As I already stated the semiconductors are usually not the source of the problem on newer equipment unless it is a very poor design that is causing some integrated circuit or transistor to get too hot.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by RestingInPieces
 


RestingInPieces,

Thanks for giving people more credit than is deserved... it's nice to see.

It is my contention that the more technologically advanced we get, the more intelligent our technology should be.

If you have a component that has hundreds of working parts, chances are that it is -bad design-.


Maybe it's just that you get confused on the operation of a pickle jar lid?


There are plenty of devices out today that have up to a billion working parts that last until they are obsolete (in the proper sense of the term, not how people are using the term in this thread regarding REPLACEABLE PARTS that wear out physically)



The technology should not be getting more "complicated". The technology should be more practical.


Practically breeds complication.



But how would companies stay in business if their products were more perfect?


I think the real question that you are ignoring is "How would companies create perfect products?"

Answer: They can't.



(The most valuable commodity on the planet is the time of a more-or-less living human being!)


Which is a bad design, according to your logic.



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 12:25 AM
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. take cars for example, 40 years ago, most regular maintenance was done by the owner, but as things became more complicated it became specialized work, some vehicles now days, you can even check the oil on, you just have to go till the light comes on.

Cars today are far better in terms of practicality, aesthetics, comfort, safety, fuel economy (for a given size), reliability, and emissions. Besides, not everyone cares about maintaining their car themselves, if the market wanted that, then products would adjust to cater for it. Besides, it's not the fault of the product that you don't have the knowledge to maintain it if you decide to do it yourself.

By the way, cars today don't exactly need 'regular maintenance'. Sure it's scheduled, but it's really only done every few months...


brake pedals and gas pedals should be the main things to always remain mechanical, not electrical, it's just more reliable on just a vital (and possibly) dangerous part of a vehicle's operation.

Aviation, and the nuclear industry found that the complete opposite is true... of course, this implies multiple redundancies and safe guards to prevent accidents. The throttle control incidents were likely not caused by complex technology, but rather poor engineeering. And it's not like mechanical linkages are perfect either.

[edit on 6/9/2010 by C0bzz]

[edit on 6/9/2010 by C0bzz]



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by aorAki
Inbuilt obsolescence.


Try fixing a power plug by unscrewing the back....oh wait....


What is that even supposed to mean?

I guess you probably think wooden Pencils have inbuilt obsolescence too, huh?



Oh?

I mean that 'older' plugs you could take apart to mend, but now they are all one piece and you can't take them apart.



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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I have observed this as well. It is true that they last shorter nowadays and it may be true that the reason for them not lasting long is because they are too complex. I guess this goes to show that advancements in technology doesn't immediately mean that people are smarter now than they were before - with all these constant breakages and all that,



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