Reliability of modern technology., page 1

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Topic started on 5-9-2010 @ 05:45 PM by dave_welch

I've been saying this for a long time now but has anyone else noticed that things just dont seem to last as long as they used to?

example: when my parents were married in 1978 they got a zenith color tv as a wedding gift. you know the big wooden cabinet with two dials (one for uhf and one for vhf, for you kids who've never seen this) and it lasted until new years day of 2000 when the tube finally gave out. So they went out and bought a new orion tv with the same size screen and it lasted for 4 years... what's that about?? and now most hi def flat screens don't last even that long and they cost twice as much. Why is it that the more advanced things become the less reliable they are. how many people have nintendos and ataris that still work fine when their year old xbox or playstation has quit already?

also, look at the cars. how many worn out late 60's chevy trucks do you see running around, and if i had a dollar for every rusted out ford maverick i've seen cruisin along after 300,000 miles, i'd be a very rich man. all my friends with new vehicles are having all kinds of problems with the electrical systems and computer systems that they need to run nowadays.

Does anyone else think that the companies that build these things are making them faulty on purpose so that you'll buy another every few years??

any thoughts?>

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 05:47 PM by dave_welch

also, has anyone noticed that fuel economy on the economy cars hasn't really changed that much, i mean, i used to have a 1960 rambler american that got 35 mpg on the highway..

anyway, just an afterthought

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 05:50 PM by john_bmth

Goods are intentionally manufactured to last shorter. If it lasts a lifetime then they'll only buy it once. My only source for this is hearsay so I can;t say for certain if it's true or not.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 06:31 PM by CynicalM

reply to post by dave_welch

This has been going on for years, maybe 30..

Everything is now "dissposable" nothing gets fixed.

And if you try to get something fixed, it usually costs more than a new one.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 06:39 PM by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by john_bmth
Goods are intentionally manufactured to last shorter. If it lasts a lifetime then they'll only buy it once. My only source for this is hearsay so I can;t say for certain if it's true or not.

Don't be silly.

As technology progresses, products become increasing more complex. They generally have 100s of times more components within them, each each small one leading to a point of failure within the device. Generally, when most consumer electronics fail, they only require replacement of a few components, or a swappable board. This is certainly not a failure of the device as a whole, but of just one part of it's complex electronic network.

The same thing goes for newer vehicles. Back then, cars were almost 100% mechanical. No complex computer systems which controlled braking, steering, fuel injection, etc... etc... With the advent of more sensitive computer systems which can monitor and precisely control your vehicle by correcting your steering, helping you navigate when you lose traction, keep your breaks from locking up etc.. etc... there are more components there that are liable to breakdown.

A long time ago, you may have been able to slap your TV to get better reception, but slap one today and you are liable to give a very sensitive piece of electronic a shock that it can't handle.

Besides that, with the amount of consumer protection we have today, and the amount of reviews of products that are widely available across the internet, people aren't going to be purchasing devices that have short life spans.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 06:43 PM by S1J1A1

Its called planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence.

How do you think Wal-mart stays in business?

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 06:48 PM by dave_welch

reply to post by RestingInPieces

well, this is kinda my point, i mean, personally, i'd rather have something more mechanical than technilogical. easier to understand, and easier to fix, i used to fix my vcr all the time, but i tried it with a dvd player and, well, lets just say i had to get a new dvd player, lol, anyway, thanks for the replies

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 06:54 PM by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by S1J1A1
Its called planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence.

How do you think Wal-mart stays in business?

... but you can return almost anything you buy from Wal-Mart and get a refund or a replacement.

So, you were saying what?

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:01 PM by aorAki

Inbuilt obsolescence.

Try fixing a power plug by unscrewing the back....oh wait....

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:04 PM by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by dave_welch

This has been going on for years, maybe 30..

Everything is now "dissposable" nothing gets fixed.

And if you try to get something fixed, it usually costs more than a new one.

"Nothing gets fixed" because it would cost more to hire someone to fix it than it costs to create the component afresh on an assembly line that churns the components out like clockwork.

In the case of a DVD player or computer, you aren't going to hire someone to repair the laser emitter or repair the CPU. Not even the company that made the components would do that.

When Intel or AMD creates multi-core processors with defective cores, they don't waste time trying to troubleshoot the individual chips and fix them - it's practically impossible - they just shut the core down and sell the processor as an n-1 core.

It has nothing to do with making things disposable. It has to do with making things that are so complex that the manual repair/troubleshooting process is too complex and time consuming.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:06 PM by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by aorAki
Inbuilt obsolescence.

Try fixing a power plug by unscrewing the back....oh wait....

What is that even supposed to mean?

I guess you probably think wooden Pencils have inbuilt obsolescence too, huh?

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:09 PM by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by RestingInPieces

well, this is kinda my point, i mean, personally, i'd rather have something more mechanical than technilogical. easier to understand, and easier to fix, i used to fix my vcr all the time, but i tried it with a dvd player and, well, lets just say i had to get a new dvd player, lol, anyway, thanks for the replies

It's attitudes like that which put us in the dark ages.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:27 PM by S1J1A1

reply to post by RestingInPieces

In all honesty I do not know what Wal-Mart's return/exchange policy is.

I was making sure I had a second line and that's what popped into my head.

Upon further reflection, I guess Wal-Mart is just an easy target. Wal-Mart is one store that most of America has access to. I live in a rural SW town and there is nothing but Wal-mart within a 1 hour radius. Lets say I need new pillows for my bed. My only choice in my town is Wal-Mart. I run on down and see they have pillows for $5. Sounds like a great deal, especially considering my last pillows lasted 15 years. Upon further consideration I see they cover is 180 thread count of poly-cotton and the filling is polyfill. It doesn't take me long to realize these new pillows are not going to last 15 years. That is planned obsolescence.

Its not just the pillows either. It's the thin plastic cups with no UV stabilizers they want you to purchase once a year for your summer BBQ's, the perennials with shallow root systems that you can hardly get established in your garden, the clothing that shrinks, distort or rips on the 5th washing, $10 a gallon paint that I wouldn't trust on a doghouse.

We are part of the problem, we all want a deal. We want something for less than it should really cost. Planned obsolescence is built into alot of products precisely because we demand it with our consumer products. Very few think through their purchases as to what the true cost of the product is: Total cost divided by years utilized.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:32 PM by C0bzz

So they went out and bought a new orion tv with the same size screen and it lasted for 4 years... what's that about??

Complex electronics occasionally break. A new LCD screen is a thousand times more complex then an old CRT.

how many people have nintendos and ataris that still work fine when their year old xbox or playstation has quit already?

Slopping engineering on the Xbox and Playstation. And it's not planned obsolescence either, both companies have had to pay huge amounts of money for this.

I have a 4 year old Core 2 Quad processor, running 35% faster than what it was designed. No problems. And a large amount of electronics that have been performing admirably for over 5 years.

[edit on 5/9/2010 by C0bzz]

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 07:40 PM by soontide

actually, planned obsolescence is a fact of life in today's marketplace. If an automobile lasted 500k miles, then no auto manufacturer could afford to stay in business. The truth of the matter is that the component that usually fails on newer vehicles is rarely electronic. It is usually mechanical and meant to go bad at a apecific milleage. This is why most newer vehicles have timing belts insted of timing chains, Why heads are made from aluminum and not carbon fiber, which is both lighter and more heat resistant.

Another poster brought up the fsct that fuel milleage hasn't really changed all that much. Unfortunately, I disagree. Gas milleage has gotten mutch worse over the past twenty years. I had a honda civic crx back in the '80s that averaged 40 mpg. The ford fiesta got milleage around the same. In the '90s, this changed as more and more large vehicles were introduced. Vehicles like the ford "exploder" and or the chevy blazer that got horrible milleage and were notorious for mechanical issues.

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 09:02 PM by dave_welch

Originally posted by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by RestingInPieces

It's attitudes like that which put us in the dark ages.

i disagree, it's attitudes like yours , which make us less dependent. if you can fix or own stuff, you have become that much more independant. take cars for example, 40 years ago, most regular maintenance was done by the owner, but as things became more complicated it became specialized work, some vehicles now days, you can even check the oil on, you just have to go till the light comes on.

example #2: before the advent of fast food, most men and women could cook for themselve, but if you go to a college or high school today, my money says that less than 40% can prepare their own food. let alone grow it. or raise animals for meat.

and exasmple #3. the internet. now as much as i love the convinience of it. and many people would argue that people as a whole are smarter and more educated because of it, i'd have to disagree. most kids nowadays don't go for books, just the free internet so they can go on facebook ect. most people don't know what true research is, as much as i like wikipedia, too many people see it as an end all reference guide. in short, the internet has made us more dependant and lazy.

i could probably go on all day with this, but i believe you good people understand what i'm getting at. if i have not been clear, let me know, i'll try to elaborate.

(added end quote)

[edit on Sun Sep 5 2010 by Jbird]

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 09:18 PM by davespanners

In 1976 the cost of a Zenith 25" color TV was $599 and the average wage in the USA was $9226.48 That means that the TV would cost about 1/15th of your annual wage.

At the moment the average wage is around $42000 and the cost of a 25" TV is around $325 Thats 1/129th of your annual salary.

Products are built down to a price because people just will not pay that kind of money for them now, no one in todays culture is going to save for a year to buy a TV they want to be able to buy it for gas money and then complain when it breaks

If a TV cost the same now compared to the average wage a 25" TV would cost $2726 If you could get a 25" TV that cost nearly $3000 I can guarantee that it probably wouldn't break.

Costs of goods in the 70's
Average wage data

[edit on 5-9-2010 by davespanners]

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 09:30 PM by dave_welch

ok, you have a good point there and i'll agree electronics were more expensive then but what about this?

Chevrolet Malibu $3,671 1976
1976 9,226.48 = average wage

2010 chevy malibu 21,975
2010 average wage 41,334.97

somewhere the price of two comperable cars went from a third of an average wage to over half... what happened there??

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 09:32 PM by dave_welch

also, the 25 inch tv is 78 was pretty much top of the line, top of the line tv now, how much is that? and will it last 22 years?

reply posted on 5-9-2010 @ 09:39 PM by davespanners

Interesting points also! I will look into the car thing, I wonder if anything has happened to the price of steel etc

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