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Parallel Universes Proven

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posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 04:49 AM
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Well that is rather crazy that they've shown superposition on a macroscopic scale...I wouldn't quite say that means parallel universes exist...but it does mean something extraordinary...what exactly I'm not sure of yet, give me some time to arrange my thoughts...

EDIT:


Originally posted by daniel_g
If we were able to detect it vibrating and standing still in our universe, it simply means that both event were happening in our universe.
Indeed.


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
The paddle wasn't moving and not moving in a single universe.
Yes it was actually. If it wasn't, they wouldn't be able to observe it moving and not moving at the same time. Unless they could measure the object in an alternate universe of course.

I don't believe this confirms the existence of parallel universes at all. It just shows that when you put an object into it's quantum mechanical ground state the rules of quantum mechanics can apply to it.

[edit on 7/9/10 by CHA0S]




posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


Parallel universes have been seen by shaman around the world for hundreds of years. Dr Rick Strassman was the latest credible person to undergo such scientific explorations in our modern age.

The fact that we are heading toward quantum computers is very exciting indeed. I mean 6 computers to run the entire US?

Quantum computation: a tutorial Cool Central Site of the Hour





[edit on 7-9-2010 by franspeakfree]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 07:16 AM
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Firstly let me say that Quantum Mechanics is not the science of the very small, it is in fact the science of isolation. The coherence of matter as we experience it in our daily lives only exists because of its integration with other elements.

If you were to take an object regardless of size and isolate it, insolate it from interaction with any system whether that be energy or matter, the object would exhibit it's quantum properties.

But what are Quantum properties I hear you say??

To understand this you need to understand what lies at the basis of our universe and our experience of reality. At the most fundamental levels of reality, at the smallest scale possible (the Planck Length) which is 10 to the minus 35 meters in size, the universe ceases to be anything like you could image.

Matter, energy, dimension all become meaningless. The fabric of Space-time at the Planck length is literally the sea of randomness. It is this ocean of pure potentiality that creates through resonance the reality that you and I enjoy.

Now...

When we talk about an object enters a state of superposition, what we are actually saying is that the object has the potential to be many things, this is what we call DE-coherence. It is only when the object interacts with a system or if you like, information is relayed between interconnected systems that the objects values are set and the object is then considered to be coherent.

This effectively means that an object in superposition is all things at the same time until a point where all other possibilities have been eliminated and the objects values are set.

One interpretation of this is that when an object becomes coherent all other posibilties are played out in parallel universes but this idea leads us to the inescapable conclusion that Free Will is an illusion and the decisions you thought you were making were in fact just a consequence of our alter ego in a parallel universe making the opposite decision.

My personal view is that superposition is not caused by an infinite multiverse but is a consequence of the fact that the order at our level of reality is built upon the total randomness that is the true nature of reality at its fundamental levels.

Order from chaos.

Hope this helps,

Korg.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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I wonder....isn't measuring supposed to collapse the quantum wave of probability? How did they circumvent that? So the paddle was doing all it could, being move and not. I wonder also if there was a superposition of several (infinite?) speeds. Why just one speed? But then again the whole moving and not moving is mind blowing.

As for the parallel universes, as far I can see this experiment shows a macro sized object that undisturbed is exhibiting all it can. And that is not a sign of interference with other parallel universes. As someone else here asked, how could they measure a quality of the paddle if it was in another universe? The double slit experiment showed an indirect proof of another universe. Right?



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 07:41 AM
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The article is indeed "poorly" written because it's a dumbed-down news article meant to be understandable by the masses. If you are really interested in the details you should read the actual paper on the experiment and not some watered down version made into a catchy news article.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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I think that the thing we need to all realize is that there is so much we do not understand about our world, our reality or our existance. Thanks OP for bringing us this little tidbit because every little bit moves along mankinds most important endeavor... Progress.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Blazer
The article is indeed "poorly" written because it's a dumbed-down news article meant to be understandable by the masses. If you are really interested in the details you should read the actual paper on the experiment and not some watered down version made into a catchy news article.


I for one am interested but need watered down versions as I don't study quantum physics full time. would you be so kind to share your knowledge on the subject to us mere mortals.

It is clear by your post above that you indeed have much more to say on the topic.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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It all depends on what you define as a dimension. Some people think that the 11 dimensions are spiritual dimensions, or "planes." If this were the case, then we'd have to define the difference between dimension and density.

As for a parallel universe in it's entirety, it was my understanding that any object in a sate of "quantum flux," existed at two points in two different dimensions at the same time. If this is what has been done here, wouldn't scientists from the parallel dimension have completed the same experiment for it to work?



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by DreamerOracle
I can think of a use for it...........
Atom Splitting/Not Splitting=constant release of energy. If i'm understanding it correctly.
Gravity Wells
Warp
Just a few ideas that spring to mind with a constant state .....Flux....
A very world changing breakthought if fully understood? If I understood it properly?

As for Parallel Universes that could explain my weird dream, the universe where the allies lost WW2









A thought past my mind .....Decay.... you would still have decay surely then my ideas are already out the window.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 

Hi, truthseeker1984. This is just to warn you--and anyone else who might be scratching their heads trying to puzzle out the sense of it--that Matrix Rising's answer to your question, which she provided in this post, is an absolutely meaningless hash without sequence, reason or rhyme. Seriously, she just makes this stuff up as she goes along.

The superposition of macroscopic objects does not in any sense prove or even suggest the existence of parallel universes (whatever they are). Everett's Many Worlds hypothesis clearly states that worldlines divide at the point of collapse of a probability function, not before collapse while all values of the function still exist in superposition.

All superposed states of the function are simultaneously present in this universe. That is exactly what superposition means.

*


reply to posts by s7ryk3r and NightGypsy
 


What is up with of these grouches on ATS? The guy simply wanted to share this information he found that he happened to find really interesting...

But the conclusion she draws from the information is wrong. Others could be misled.


Many members can't wait for the opportunity to attack a thread for it's content... Why do these people exist here? It seems to me that anyone who has this opinion would find no useful purpose for coming here?

We are here to help uncritical minds like yours sift truth from falsehood, that you may be better informed and your life thereby improved, even if you never thank us for it.

We are here because we love truth and fear the dangers of falsehood and ignorance.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 

An insightful, lucid and beautifully argued explanation. I've given you a star, but what you really deserve is everybody's thanks.

I'm afraid you rather lost me at this bit, though:


My personal view is that superposition is not caused by an infinite multiverse but is a consequence of the fact that the order at our level of reality is built upon the total randomness that is the true nature of reality at its fundamental levels.

I'd be grateful if you would explain further, perhaps in a U2U if you feel it's off topic for the thread.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 





We are here to help uncritical minds like yours sift truth from falsehood, that you may be better informed and your life thereby improved, even if you never thank us for it. We are here because we love truth and fear the dangers of falsehood and ignorance.



"WE are here....?" Why is it you answered my question when it was not directed at you? I don't care why YOU are here.... unless this is your way of stating you share Daniel_g's opinions, in which case I would conclude by your immature response that you come here to feed your lack of self esteem by spouting a few tidbits of scientific knowledge because you think it makes you appear highly intelligent. (*****yawn*****)

As you can see, we're all very impressed.




posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by NightGypsy
 


This is the "Science & Technology" forum, not the "Make It Up As You Go Along To Fit Some Wild Hypothesis You Got From A Movie" forum. Posters have every right to tackle pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo as this forum gets enough of it already. If I want to read about wacky stuff, I'll read one of the many other forums on this site. However, I like to think of the S&T forum as some sort of bastion to balance out the wacky stuff in other forums so it doesn't help when people pollute this board with absolute nonsense. Read into that what you will, but this forum is not the place for unfounded, half-baked, ill-conceived ideas, especially when they fly in the face of known science.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax

I'm afraid you rather lost me at this bit, though:


My personal view is that superposition is not caused by an infinite multiverse but is a consequence of the fact that the order at our level of reality is built upon the total randomness that is the true nature of reality at its fundamental levels.

I'd be grateful if you would explain further, perhaps in a U2U if you feel it's off topic for the thread.


No problem, I don't feel it's off topic as it is directly related to the subject at hand


At the Planck Length of the universe space-time is literally boiling, the randomness of quantum fluctuations at this level of reality causes the universe to create structure from chaos, some stable some not so stable. The stable structures are what becomes matter and the not so stable become energy.

Chaos does in fact create, and is the single silver bullet ringing in the death bell for a need of an intelligent creator of the universe. This can be demonstrated in the Belousov-Zhabotinsky Reaction



Chaos into order is something that for a while was just considered by many as just a way to create pretty pictures, but actually it is the discovery of Chaos theory that has led Physicists to brink of a total grasp of our level of reality or at least how the universe gives rise to it.

The odd thing about Quantum Mechanics that many get confused about is the idea of quantum entanglement and superposition. Two very prominent conclusions of Quantum theory. Both these effects are caused by the fact that all matter is directly connected at it's base.

In effect you, me, the chair you are sitting on and the computer you are using are all made of the same stuff (space-time) and are all connected.

In the case of superposition the space-time that makes up the object in isolation has no direct contact with any other object, although it is still connected at its base to space-time, it is not connected with any other system, so any change in the isolated object has no bearing to any other object at all.

When this happens the object is in a state of flux, it literally has the potential to be anything. In fact the Schrodinger’s Cat gedanken experiment didn't go far enough. When the cat is put in the box, it not only has the potential to be alive or dead or both, but it also has the potential however small or remote to be a mouse, a dog or even a piece of cheese.

This is a very hard concept to get your head around, but the true reality of nature is that there can never a value potential of Zero. This is because of the chaos.

This is also quite a cool excerpt from a bbc program called "the Secret Life of Chaos" and features some very outstanding experiments.



I have a thread with the entire bbc program here...

The Greatest Documentary Ever?? Order Comes from Chaos

Sorry if this is as clear as mud, feel free to ask anything and I'll try my best to answer.

All the best,

Korg.

[edit on 8-9-2010 by Korg Trinity]



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 

Thanks for the explanation. I understand how symmetry breaking creates order, more or less temporary, out of chaos and why that process is inevitable. Perhaps you've read P.W. Anderson's paper, 'More is Different?'

Ah, some science on this thread at last.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


First off, stop making stuff up. Of course you didn't respond to anything in my post, you just made ad hoc attacks. Secondly, I'm a male so stop saying she.

Everett's Many Worlds Interpretation avoids collapse of the wave function.


Many-worlds is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction, but denies the reality of wavefunction collapse, which implies that all possible alternative histories and futures are real —each representing an actual "world" (or "universe").


en.wikipedia.org...

The whole idea behind the Many Worlds Interpretation is to avoid collapse. The Wave Function doesn't collapse in the many worlds interpretation because all possible states of the wave function exist as a seperate world hence the name many worlds.

So let's look at Schrodinger's cat. Many Worlds says there's wasn't any collapse because they treat the wave function as an objective reality so both the dead cat and the live cat are two states of the wave function and because of decoherence we observe 1 state and not the other.

Copenhagen doesn't treat the wave function as an objective reality so you have collapse of the wave function which means the probable states are just the mathematics of quantum mechanics and they don't have any basis in the classical world.

This is why superposition should stop at Planck scales.

Now if you wanted to argue the other side in an intelligent way, you would say the universe is a quantum computer. This means the math of quantum mechanics just describes the functions which produce classical universes. So the functions of quantum mechanics like the complex conjugate of the wave function is just like HTML tags. They don't have a physical reality but they describe how what we call physical reality is produced.

Either way, you have to come back to parallel universes because a quantum computer can simulate a universe where President Kennedy was shot and one where he wasn't shot.

Now there's a third option which many secularist and materialist love. I call this the wishful thinking option. They say quantum mechanics is incomplete and one day we will discover a theory that turns quantum mechanics into Newtonian physics.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


This is an awesome find. Just imagine the technologies that will grow from this experiment. Too bad Sheldon Cooper didn't think of this in the first place...Bang!



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


implies that all possible alternative histories and futures are real

Ah, good. So you've been reading my posts. I was afraid you had me on Ignore. I wanted you to know what I was saying about you and your silly ideas.

All possible alternative histories.

Until an event takes place, there is no branching. No alternative future.

And so, from the perspective of that alternate future, the timeline backwards is clear.

It doesn't mean that an infinity of pasts stretches back from an event, just as an infinity of futures stretches forward before it.

Here, read this. Better than Wikipedia. It may help.

edit on 8/9/10 by Astyanax because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by NightGypsy
"WE are here....?" Why is it you answered my question when it was not directed at you? I don't care why YOU are here.... unless this is your way of stating you share Daniel_g's opinions, in which case I would conclude by your immature response that you come here to feed your lack of self esteem by spouting a few tidbits of scientific knowledge because you think it makes you appear highly intelligent. (*****yawn*****)

As you can see, we're all very impressed.



This is a public forum, the way you phrased your response implies you feel the same way about every member who criticizes any topic on ATS. If you wanted to keep this thread on track but still wanted to know *my* personal opinion and not anybody else's, why not just send me a PM?

I am not here to appear intelligent, if that was the case, I would have left a long time ago as some members made me realize how ignorant some of my responses were in various threads. Hell, I'll gladly point you to a thread in which it took me several replies to realize how pathetic I was being. Had I never joined this forum I'd still be ignorant about the subject because I have never seen that topic posted anywhere else - at least not in the 6 other public forums I frequently use.

Here is the link of that thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...
feel free to read everything starting page 8.

I am thankful that the guy whom I was having the heated argument didn't leave, instead he stopped me from spreading ignorance. Does that answer your question?



edit on 8-9-2010 by daniel_g because: Added link



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


You have said 2 different things here.

Of course branching occurs in Many Worlds Interpretation but that's not what you said:


Everett's Many Worlds hypothesis clearly states that worldlines divide at the point of collapse


Collapse doesn't occur in MWI. This is one of the main reasons why many physicist like MWI. MWI treats the wave function as an objective reality that evolves over time and there isn't any collapse.

Copenhagen says there is a collapse of the wave function but they treat the wave function as a mathematical description of a reality we can't know.

This is why many Physicist had problems with Copenhagen because it basically said you can't know and telling a Physicist he/she can't know is like telling a baby they can't have their candy.

I actually think they both are correct but that's another story. You were talking about 2 different things i.e. branching and collapse. I was responding to your usage of collapse when talking about MWI.


2) The physical assumption: The wavefunction obeys the empirically derived standard linear deterministic wave equations at all times. The observer plays no special role in the theory and, consequently, there is no collapse of the wavefunction. For non-relativistic systems the Schrodinger wave equation is a good approximation to reality.


www.hedweb.com...

The problem with many world is they try to treat Schrodinger's wave equation like F=ma. Schrodinger's wave equation only gives you eigenstates of the wave function. But this only gives you probabilities. So some people who support MWI postulate a universal wave function. This would make MWI deterministic if you knew the intial conditions of the universal wave function.

This is no different than saying the universal wave function is God (Physicist Frank Tipler actually makes this claim in his Omega Point Theory).


edit on 9-9-2010 by Matrix Rising because: (no reason given)



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