necromonican occult majik explained,dont miss it!!

reply to post by dontreally

Thanks very much for your informed reply my friend,i just found it very interesting and my curiosity has got the better of me.
I understand what you are saying,i think
appreiate it

I would listen to dontreally... Once, you have an understanding of the macrocosm and the microcosm foiling with the outcome isn't a good idea. Remember... "What goes around comes around" "As so above so below" you'll get the point.

Originally posted by johnny c
reply to post by dontreally

 

Thanks very much for your informed reply my friend,i just found it very interesting and my curiosity has got the better of me.
I understand what you are saying,i think
appreiate it

Your welcome

i just dont want you to hurt yourself (and that means even engaging in it will hurt you in the next world)...

I once dabled with some yoga exercises that seriously put me in a screwed up state. So, if that did that to me, contacting spirits that 'speak' into your head, can be a very startling and unnerving experience.

I wouldnt in a million years do that. 1 because as i said before, i dont want to offend the creator, but also, ive always been more than a little uncomfortable with that aspect of reality. I like to keep myself firmly rooted in the real world, ie; this world, with its people, families.. Im much happier this way. I do my own spiritual things, constantly studying.. I just dont find the contacting spiritsor manipulating them fruitful in anyway, aside from the immediate enjoyment/pleasure id get out of it, which would be followed by a long term pain, either in this world or the next.

I thought that magick was debunked veeeery long time ago. Yet, if you don't want to believe it, try finding out by yourself. There are of course phenomenas that seem to escape logical explanation when trying to figure it out with limited understanding

Originally posted by dontreally

I once dabled with some yoga exercises that seriously put me in a screwed up state. So, if that did that to me, contacting spirits that 'speak' into your head, can be a very startling and unnerving experience.

Hearing voices within ones head might not be spirits talking, but rather your subconscious self. Yoga, meditation, as well as many other methods, are ways of connecting with the subconscious, not with spirits.

However, while spirits or other 'supernatural' beings may not be part of my reality, it is all right if they are yours. I am just sayin'

-v

[edit on 5-9-2010 by v01i0]

Originally posted by v01i0
I thought that magick was debunked veeeery long time ago. Yet, if you don't want to believe it, try finding out by yourself. There are of course phenomenas that seem to escape logical explanation when trying to figure it out with limited understanding

Originally posted by dontreally

I once dabled with some yoga exercises that seriously put me in a screwed up state. So, if that did that to me, contacting spirits that 'speak' into your head, can be a very startling and unnerving experience.

Hearing voices within ones head might not be spirits talking, but rather your subconscious self. Yoga, meditation, as well as many other methods, are ways of connecting with the subconscious, not with spirits.

However, while spirits or other 'supernatural' beings may not be part of my reality, it is all right if they are yours. I am just sayin'

-v

[edit on 5-9-2010 by v01i0]

no, in some cases, contacting 'spirits' by which i mean forces responsible for a certain reality, they literally speak to you, via your unconscious of course.

Im talking about the 72 name of G-d, with each particular name responsible for a certain reality. I payed 40 bucks to hear a course on this by Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok, an 'orthodox' rabbi and a Jungian psychologist (koshertorah.com if your interested in learning these things. he talks about the practical aspects of this name, the shemhamforesh, aswell as the sefer yetzirah) and does describe the interaction with these forces, after one has chanted the name over and over again, with the proper vowels associated with each name, until a 'connection' is established between yourself and this power. This only works with Hebrew. It wont work with other languages. Once the connection is established, pose your question, and an answer will be channeled to you audibly. If you look at which power corresponds to what, you can discover a host of things. Its a cool idea, but, the consquences for one who isnt spiritually prepared are disastrous. Complete and utter subermsion into the realm of fantasy. So, if your a risky person, or believe yourself to be 'fit' for this, ie; think you have overcome the evil in you, go on right ahead.

Yoga, that i dealt with wasnt at all about contacting powers. It was simpyl an energy exercise, which , as the name implies, increases your psychic energy (kundalini yoga). It made incredibly nervous/paranoid for a good 3 weeks. Didnt sleep in that period. By the grace of G-d i got out of that unscathed.

Originally posted by dontreally
This only works with Hebrew. It wont work with other languages.

Excuse me, but there are plenty of 'mantras' around that can do the trick. Shamans do that with various methods, yogis and monks do that by chanting "mantras", various kinds. It is all about of connecting with one's subconsciousness, nothing to do with spirits nor gods (at least in my experience). Been there, done that etc and etc.

-v

[edit on 5-9-2010 by v01i0]

I gotta agree with dontreally i think he has a fine understanding of majik and it's potential harm full effects and it's nothing anyone should play around with......you have been warned.

Originally posted by v01i0

Originally posted by dontreally
This only works with Hebrew. It wont work with other languages.

Excuse me, but there are plenty of 'mantras' around that can do the trick. Shamans do that with various methods, yogis and monks do that by chanting "mantras", various kinds. It is all about of connecting with one's subconsciousness, nothing to do with spirits nor gods (at least in my experience). Been there, done that etc and etc.

-v

[edit on 5-9-2010 by v01i0]

Yes, you are right that certain nature spirits, can be contacted without the aid of Hebrew, but with some other language as a means. This does not apply when it comes to the 72 triplet names of g-d encoded in the verse in exodus where moses parts the sea of reeds.. The very action of parting the `sea`relates ones ability to part through - peer into, the very archetypal makeup of the spiritual worlds. The 72 name of G-d is how you do it. No language will connect you to these forces. Like i said earlier, if youd like to know more about these things go to koshertorah.com and pick up the course. If youre into these things you`ll fidn it worth the 40 bucks.

To affect the actual 'energy lines`. (which is the 72 name of G-d) which are the ARCH-angelic powers, as opposed to local powers which exercise some influence over its immediate surroundings, you need to know Hebrew and you need to understand its archetypal makeup (the 22 letters and 10 vowel points)

Many occultists have echoed this belief.. Cornelius Agrippa in his philosophy of natural magic, Macgregor Mathers in kabbalah unveiled, and Crowley throughout his writigns, to name just a few of the big names...For some reason this knowledge of Hebrew isnt promulgated. Probably could be for political reasons; whatever the case, the person who studies it for himself knows this is the truth. Sanskrit, Aramaic, greek, Arabic, or any other language wont do the trick.

Manipulating reality is indeed possible without Hebrew, but these manipulations are of an entirely different nature than with Hebrew. The 72 triplets arent arbitary or random, but refer to the very heirarchial structure of the spiritual worlds. The tetragrammaton has 4 possible expansions, with each letter alluding to a certain world. The world of Atzilut, which corresponds to the Yod, has the numerical expansion of 72, called acrostically AV(Ayin Bet), which also means father, corresponding to the sephira of Chokma (which is also called father).

The other languages affect reality from beriah and below within the world of assiah, but the very archtypal structure of reality is altered through pronouncing the 72 angelic names of the shemahmphoresh in hebrew with its corresponding vowel points. Hebrew isnt called Lashon Hakodesh (which has the same gematria as Safat Echat - one language) for no reason. Its completely at one with the speech of the creator who continuously speaks reality into existence.

You can believe all you want that anyone can just mutter any random sound over and over again and intend that he contact some power; without the aid of Hebrew, of the tradition going back to the original man, nothing will happen.

There is a sharp difference between CREATING gods for yourself, and knowing how to manipulate the already existing powers in creation.

[edit on 5-9-2010 by dontreally]

Like i said dontreally is very informed when it comes to majik practices, as you can see from the post above, of course there's different types of majik that exist in the world and various ways to invoke these types of powers, depending on what your using them for or what craft your practicing.


But like both me and dontreally said it's not something you really wanna mess with, any kind of majik for that mater it can be very harmful to people in so many ways that the bottom line is don't do it.....again i can't stress that enough.

reply to post by dontreally

Just my own word of warning. When manipulating reality, youre in other words manipulating G-ds creation. This is immoral, wrong, and one who does this is commiting a great folly. In the end, it'll hurt you.

So, by you words, Kabbalists are immoral?

I would suggest reading some Lon Milo Duquette or Aleister Crowley. The information on the Qabala from both of them will lead you down the right path. Duquette is easier to read then Crowley. "Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will."
— Aleister Crowley (Magick in Theory and Practice)
www.goodreads.com...

What this means is that you take your intent and project it into the universe with all of your emotion. An elevated form of prayer more or less. I have often read and believe that "Demons" are parts of the subconscious mind communicating with you. I have no faith in The Necronomicon being a real book but that does not mean the Sumerian magick inside is not dangerous when in the "wrong" hands. I tend to avoid "Black" magick tomes and Enochian. Enochian magic seems to have power in it just by looking at the glyphs.

Magick works, and there are beings out there that want you to use their magick. I've conjured spirits, and no, I have no proof. It's real, and there is nothing to be afraid of if you truly know who you are. Humans are capable of great feats, we have access to many gates, all gates, and it takes time, the right strategy, or the right 'potion' to access them.

That part about not eating any meat, or food for like 3 days is a MUST, if you wish to make contact with people from the other side. Even Hitler used that psuedo-starvation method for his black magick rituals. Yeah, he's in it deep, real deep actually, all those ovens were used to help open The Dark Gate. He's with the Thule society, yeah, a really powerful man, not just in this world, but others as well. I'm not sure if he's dead actually, I've just come across his essence during my conjuring.

Yeah, stay away from that guy, real psychopath.

reply to post by dontreally

Originally posted by dontreally
Yes, you are right that certain nature spirits

C'mon dude, please do not twist my words to fit your agenda. In my reality, spirits do not exist:

Originally posted by v01i0
However, while spirits or other 'supernatural' beings may not be part of my reality, it is all right if they are yours. I am just sayin'

Originally posted by dontreally
Like i said earlier, if youd like to know more about these things go to koshertorah.com and pick up the course. If youre into these things you`ll fidn it worth the 40 bucks.

Know more? I already know heap lot more of things I don't even want to (oh how I wish that magick would be as I imagined it to be in my infancy!). I've done empirical research on these things and found them to be mostly lies. However, there's the psychological connection. For there are things that may happen if you engange ritualistic magicks, but all that happens, happens only within your head.

It is beyond my understanding that why people insist to believe in magick. Is it because they've tried some of the methods, noticed some (psychological) effects, and concluded that, wow, this is working?

I did the same, but I didn't stop there but kept questioning and observing the phenomena and found out that there is nothing mystical, nothing supernatural. Just veyr humane subconsciousness - which can be tricky of course

Originally posted by dontreally

Many occultists have echoed this belief..

Indeed. Belief seems to be the key word

Magic, whether kabbalistic, animalistic, naturalistic, or whateveristic is a ritualistic way to triffle with ones subconsciousness - yet sometimes it may also have effects in social dimension (if performed publicly), as all rituals do.

I must also make the disclaimer that while I do not recognize magic as ritual way of affecting physical reality, I do accept its existence in psychological level. Sometimes however, these levels are indistinguishable. I see that that supernormal entities like gods, spirits, angels and demons are merely collective symbols describing psychological phenomenas. They are ad-hoc explanations for explaining some appearances of human psyche.

What I meant by above, that there is no "magick" as a method to make yourself fly by drinking boiled fat of unbabtized babies. All that is epic delusion. IMO.

-v

Been practicing magick for 37 years. It's real.
What it is depends on the construct the magician has developed over time as a network for it to manifest. It's a very personal thing.

Necronomicon COULD be a construct, I suppose. I am not one to say it is real or it is not. From my experience though, it doesn't look like a solid construct, but rather, a prop for chaos magick I suppose.

I haven't descended into fantasy or insanity yet.

Some might argue that point. lol Ok, never mind me, fat little housewife doing my daily chores, who'd ever guess I was a master of reality?

Originally posted by hadriana
Been practicing magick for 37 years. It's real.
What it is depends on the construct the magician has developed over time as a network for it to manifest. It's a very personal thing.

Necronomicon COULD be a construct, I suppose. I am not one to say it is real or it is not. From my experience though, it doesn't look like a solid construct, but rather, a prop for chaos magick I suppose.

I haven't descended into fantasy or insanity yet.

Some might argue that point. lol Ok, never mind me, fat little housewife doing my daily chores, who'd ever guess I was a master of reality?

Master of reality? I think thats a bit exagerrated.

Can i ask you what point there is in performing 'magic'?

I really cant figure out the value in it. Why is simple faith, trust, prayer and meditation... too simple? not interesting enough?

Originally posted by CitizenNum287119327
reply to post by dontreally

 

Just my own word of warning. When manipulating reality, youre in other words manipulating G-ds creation. This is immoral, wrong, and one who does this is commiting a great folly. In the end, it'll hurt you.

So, by you words, Kabbalists are immoral?

I didnt say nor imply imply that.

Just because theyre caretakers of the greatest secrets of creation, doesnt mean they do anything with it.

Its a sweeping view in the orthodox Jewish world that kabbalah maasit (practical kabbalah) is morally wrong.

Compare it to this. G-d gave us a body. We could in todays day and age 'upgrade' what we were given through botox, plastic surgery, tatoos, random piercings etc, but according to the kabbalah and Jewish psychology, doing so would be vain and thus harmful to ones spiritual growth. Unless your seriously malformed, where a surgery like that could help you look objectively more normal, theres no excuse for manipulating G-ds creation. The same applies to this. Just because creation can be manipulated via manipulation of Hebrew words/powers doesnt imply that it should be done. It implies a temptation sure, but one that has to be won.

Originally posted by leira7
Magick works, and there are beings out there that want you to use their magick. I've conjured spirits, and no, I have no proof. It's real, and there is nothing to be afraid of if you truly know who you are. Humans are capable of great feats, we have access to many gates, all gates, and it takes time, the right strategy, or the right 'potion' to access them.

That part about not eating any meat, or food for like 3 days is a MUST, if you wish to make contact with people from the other side. Even Hitler used that psuedo-starvation method for his black magick rituals. Yeah, he's in it deep, real deep actually, all those ovens were used to help open The Dark Gate. He's with the Thule society, yeah, a really powerful man, not just in this world, but others as well. I'm not sure if he's dead actually, I've just come across his essence during my conjuring.

Yeah, stay away from that guy, real psychopath.

you know what an intrinsic feature of the 'dark side' is? Lies, delusion.

this is a law of polarity. like corresponds to like. Truth = light, and lies = dark. So, chances are you didnt 'meet' adolph hitler on the other side. Im sure you think you did, but no. Theres such a thing called Measure for measure. The very nature of evil is to create fantasy in order to enrap you into its grasp; the sole interest, and sole function is to lie. Whether that be a convincing negative emotion or a fantasy one experiences psychically when engaging in divination. This world is an inversion of the next. In other words, seeing this world is so full of lies and deceit, and thus akin to the world of 'darkness', in the next world, which is the complete opposite (an inversion) of this world, things that were done in this world are rectified, thus its called the world of 'truth'. Hell and heaven, these are natural just consquences of ones behavior in the world of lies. In this world, you can do bad without suffering the consquences (although sometimes you do get whats deserving to you).

Therefore, theres no party and games nor a pagan dualistic god vs satan substratum. There isnt a separate realm for evil and a realm for good. True, while alive, there are definitely kelipot (evil spirits) which intelligently masquarade as other people; this is because the unconscious is a database and these entities are tremendous actors who simply cull information for the sake of garnering your life force. Theyre an intellectual force; if you dont their nature or understand yourself, your bound to be manipulated by them.

There is only G-d, and Satan means simply adversary, ie; ones inner adversary. He simply plays the role of provocateur, and hes by no means at odds with the will of the creator. Hitler is suffering, as is Crowley, or any other occultist/magician who manipulated G-ds creation or engaged in unethical behavior during their life in thiws world. This is the consquences for their actions. They certainly arent 'alive' anymore or capable of communicating with others on this side. They are trapped in the world they created for themselves; they are being meted measure for measure for what they did, thought and said while alive. Alot to atone for. That doesnt mean thougha spirit wouldnt masquarade as Hilter though, or a dead family member of yours. This is why people need to be careful. Firstly, its so incredibly wrong to be contacting the dead and this should be fricken common knowledge. But if you do do it, theres always the possibility of you not contacting the dead, but simply a masquerading spirit. Depends on the information you get that determines if tis real or not.

The Talmud describes the greek psychopathic emperor and unfortunate destroyer of the 2nd temple Hadrian after he passed on. He was in the depth of sheol, 300 years AFTER he had died... What do you expect from a guy who devoted 40% of Romes military might to destroying teh Jews. This was a guy who killed his own gay lover antonious in the nile as a real life reenactment of the murder of Osiris.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by dontreally]

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by dontreally

 

Originally posted by dontreally
Yes, you are right that certain nature spirits

C'mon dude, please do not twist my words to fit your agenda. In my reality, spirits do not exist:

Originally posted by v01i0
However, while spirits or other 'supernatural' beings may not be part of my reality, it is all right if they are yours. I am just sayin'

Originally posted by dontreally
Like i said earlier, if youd like to know more about these things go to koshertorah.com and pick up the course. If youre into these things you`ll fidn it worth the 40 bucks.

Know more? I already know heap lot more of things I don't even want to (oh how I wish that magick would be as I imagined it to be in my infancy!). I've done empirical research on these things and found them to be mostly lies. However, there's the psychological connection. For there are things that may happen if you engange ritualistic magicks, but all that happens, happens only within your head.

It is beyond my understanding that why people insist to believe in magick. Is it because they've tried some of the methods, noticed some (psychological) effects, and concluded that, wow, this is working?

I did the same, but I didn't stop there but kept questioning and observing the phenomena and found out that there is nothing mystical, nothing supernatural. Just veyr humane subconsciousness - which can be tricky of course

Originally posted by dontreally

Many occultists have echoed this belief..

Indeed. Belief seems to be the key word

Magic, whether kabbalistic, animalistic, naturalistic, or whateveristic is a ritualistic way to triffle with ones subconsciousness - yet sometimes it may also have effects in social dimension (if performed publicly), as all rituals do.

I must also make the disclaimer that while I do not recognize magic as ritual way of affecting physical reality, I do accept its existence in psychological level. Sometimes however, these levels are indistinguishable. I see that that supernormal entities like gods, spirits, angels and demons are merely collective symbols describing psychological phenomenas. They are ad-hoc explanations for explaining some appearances of human psyche.

What I meant by above, that there is no "magick" as a method to make yourself fly by drinking boiled fat of unbabtized babies. All that is epic delusion. IMO.

-v

the mind is governed by archetypal principles, and so yes, there is a distinct spiritual/psychological influence of what the ancients called gods/spirits/demons.

But what you dont understand is that we are made as microcosm of the world at large. Kabbalah does a very convincing job explaining this.

Also, CG Jung and Wolfgang Paulie(nobel prize winning physict) wrote a very interesting book called "the interpretation of nature and psyche", which explains the archetyal processes in both the sub-atomic world and the collective human unconscious. The same principles, with the same patterns and archetypal features distinsguish both. For instance, in quantum mechanics, certain numbers which conceptually are akin to certain archetypal processes in the unconscious are connected. This indicates that the same autonomous process is at work in two different dimensions; one the psyche and the other the physical world. "archetypes', what the ancients called gods, are autonomous unconscious processes. They possess an accumulative numinosity. This means in a practical sense that before i act, preconsciously theres a process going on that drives me, subconsciously of course, to act in an archetypal way. This is another force at work beside my conscious mind. These things actually contain what Frued calls 'libido', which is simply the modern term for psychic energy. Because they posses this built up energy, and because these archetypal processes also govern physical processes at the abstract level of quantum mechanics, therefore, the mind and the physical world is intmately connected; one is simply the out manifestation of the inner state. Also, the Torah describes creation as occurring through the 'speech' of G-d. String theory has described creation as vibrating strings, which are very much like the waves made by sound. In other words, the thoery of magick has always maintained that through speech, because speech is the spiritual impetus of all reality (being generated by the creator) mankind, who is made in the image of their source, has an intrinsic ability to affect realities archetypal makeup through pronouncing the same Hebrew words with their own vibratory quality which in essence correspond to teh archetypal force resonsible for a certain reality.

Id highly recommend you read more on Jung. Im not alien to the works of psychoanalysts. Ive read Freud, Jung, and Adler so i know what the prevailing views are. I think Jung gets closest to the reality of things, whereas the two others are more politicized

reply to post by dontreally

Originally posted by dontreally
But what you dont understand is that we are made as microcosm of the world at large. Kabbalah does a very convincing job explaining this.

*Sigh* Okay, maybe you are assuming that I know nothing about the mystical traditions, since my posts may not reflect this very well. So let me explain, even though I find it to be in vain.

I've read some of Qabalah (for example, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah), although written Qabalah may not be the same as the traditional Qabalah, which is said to be a "mouth to ear"-tradition. I know about microcosm/macrocosm -concept pair, which is basically same as alchemical proverb 'as above, so below' or the part appearing in Lord's Prayer 'in earth as it is in heaven'.

But I've failed to take these analogies literally. Instead I understand that we, human beings as well as other parts of the great whole, are part of this by being composed on pretty much same fundamental particles and under same laws of nature (not necessarily our knowledge about the laws of nature, but the real ones) as everything else. This microcosm/macrocom analogy that is portrayed in mystical texts, is pretty much analogous. It may not mean that in every being, there's the exact replica of universe.

It is quite impudent to claim that all the enigmas and mysteries of the existence has already been solved by the ancients. Our knowledge about reality is increasing. As Jung said:

"[T]here is still another form of negative thinking, which at first glance might not be recognized as such, and that is theosophical thinking, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world, presumably in reaction to the materialism of the recent past. Theosophical thinking has an air that is not in the least reductive, since it exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience “on another plane.” The hitherto inexplicable fact of telepathy is very simply explained as “vibrations” passing from one person to another. And ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something has collided with the “astral body”. Certain ethnological peculiarities of the dwellers on the Atlantic seaboard are easily accounted for by the submergence of Atlantis, and so on. We have only to open a theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that everything is already explained, and that “spiritual science” has left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this kind of thinking is just as negative as materialistic thinking." (CW 6: Psychological types. Page 354, emphasis by v01i0).

By the way, I've read not just couple of Jung's works, but a few

Anyhow, reading stuff is never enough - in fact it may be harmful. I am proponent of empiricism, and therefore I maintain that is important to individually emerge on these things head on, experience them first hand. With one's own experiences, we are able to distinguish fact from fiction, false from true. There are these people (not necessarily implying that you would be such) which have built their ivory towers of theories, yet they have no clue about practice. These people are just dreamers, fantasising the reality and fooled by their own imaginariums.

Based on experience I still maintain that no spirits whatsoever exists. To me, they are just inconvinient symbols that describe something, but not the corporeal existence.

Originally posted by dontreally

For instance, in quantum mechanics, certain numbers which conceptually are akin to certain archetypal processes in the unconscious are connected. This indicates that the same autonomous process is at work in two different dimensions; one the psyche and the other the physical world.

Of course, the same ultimate rules apply from top to bottom, there's no question about that in my mind. Psyche and physical world are not distinct even the phenomenas of each may appear somewhat different in our experience. It is as above as below.

Since you recommended more reading for me, I recommend more experimental empiricism for you I already responded to your challenge, now it is your turn to run into the field.

Just go summoning spirits and talk to them, ask who they are and so on. Maybe they'll let you know

Best regards,

-v

PS. To embarass myself conveniently, I have to say scio me nihil scire. We all have our own perceptions, experiences and conceptions of reality. As Protagoras said, human is the measure of everything. So please do not take this as if I would try to convert you thinking the way I do. I (think I) know it to be impossible.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by v01i0]

Very intresting debate on the theory of majik and its effects in terms of its use.


I myself don't think majik should be messed with or played with i mean you can go on and on and debate if majik is just a state of mind in terms of altering ones perception or that it really has a supernatural element to it, but in the end i feel it's too dangerous to toy with and should be avoided at all costs.....just my opinion.