Radical Islam is world's greatest threat - Tony Blair

Originally posted by OurManInGlasgow

Charles Martel? Are perchance you referring to Carolus Martellus? Aka Charles the Hammer? Frankish general of the Dark Ages? "...Often credited with the development of feudalism and knighthood." :-D:-D:-D

Yup, the selfsame one.

Seriously, if you are going to hold up someone who lived even before the Middle Ages as a philosophical basis to 'outwit' an opponent in an internet debate then you are going to have to excuse the rest of us for having a good laugh at you for coming over as an ideologically fuelled yet erudite fruitbat! :-D

If you don't mind that though then do keep your posts coming as I think we all enjoy a good laugh..! ;-)

Please do laugh. It's due to Martel that you aren't living under islamic subjugation at this moment, and he accomplished that nearly 1400 years ago. Why is it, do you think, that they hung the appellation of "The Hammer" on good 'ol Charles?

It's neither a matter of "philosophy" nor "outwitting an opponent", it simply IS. It's fact, it's history.

[edit on 2010/9/4 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by Siddharta
For the Islamist countries the worst threat are the USA and their followers, who don't accept and respect the souvereignity of their countries.

For all those who are arguing that "Radical" Islam is a result of neocons activities have a very myopic view of the world. Sure, I would agree that Bush and Blair's activities have stirred the pot. However Islamic extremism isn't just directed at the West.

Pakistan mourns blast victims

Thousands have attended a funeral in the Pakistani city of Quetta for victims of a suicide attack on a Shia Muslim procession. The death toll from Friday's attack rose from 43 to 65 overnight as critically wounded people died in hospitals, police said on Saturday.

Radical Islam also targets Muslims. More from the article.
The Taliban have their own twisted view of Islam

At least 200 people were injured in the attack, for which the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility. But police said so far, no arrests had been made and that an investigation was in progress.

ooops wrong thread











[edit on 4-9-2010 by SLAYER69]

Please do laugh. It's due to Martel that you aren't living under islamic subjugation at this moment, and he accomplished that nearly 1400 years ago. Why is it, do you think, that they hung the appellation of "The Hammer" on good 'ol Charles?

I join the laughter. Karl or Charles Martel threw down the Frisian in 717. 724 he did the same with the Saxons. One year later he fought against the Alemans and Swebes and attacked Bavaria. 732 he won against the Arabs at Tours and Poitiers. 733 again fought against the Frisians. 737 he bet back the Arabians at Avignon and 738 he was responsible for a bloodbath in Saxony.

Yes, he was a great leader and was responsible for the death of many people. Seems there was a lot of collateral damage back then or all those Frisians and Saxons were Muslim during that time.

Your view of history really is very funny!

reply to post by OurManInGlasgow


Charles Martel

Charles Martel (Latin: Carolus Martellus) (ca. 688 – 22 October 741),[1][2][3][4][5] literally Charles the Hammer, was a Frankish military and political leader, who served as Mayor of the Palace under the Merovingian kings and ruled de facto during an interregnum (737–43) at the end of his life, using the title Duke and Prince of the Franks. In 739 he was offered the title of Consul by the Pope, but he refused.[6] He is remembered for winning the Battle of Tours in 732, in which he defeated an invading Muslim army and halted northward Islamic expansion in western Europe.[7]

A brilliant general, he lost only one battle in his career (the Battle of Cologne). He is a founding figure of the Middle Ages, often credited with a seminal role in the development of feudalism and knighthood, and laying the groundwork for the Carolingian Empire.[8][9] He was also the grandfather of Charlemagne. Contents [hide]

so your saying that because he fought all those other battles that Nenos view of history is wrong?

That makes absolutely NO sense......

Military History

While exact casualties for the Battle of Tours are not known, some chronicles relate that Christian losses numbered around 1,500 while Abdul Rahman suffered approximately 10,000. Since Martel's victory, historians have argued over the battle's significance with some stating that his victory saved Western Christendom while others feel that its repercussions were minimal. Regardless, the Frankish victory at Tours, along with subsequent campaigns in 736 and 739, effectively stopped the advance of Muslim forces from Iberia allowing the further development of the Christian states in Western Europe.

I guess you just felt like laughing, history is history and using it in a debate with someone taking about Muslims being a threat and extremism having been around for ages, only makes sense........

After all theres the old saying "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"

[edit on 4-9-2010 by ManBehindTheMask]

I say, this viewpoint is nonsense. The times, we are talking here about was the time when territories were cleared and conquered with war and sometimes friendship relations. There is no relation to Islamic fundamentalism.

If Europe really would have been overthrown by the Muslims then, we would not cry about this, because we would be Muslims now. And the USA would be the descendants of Europe, as they are now.

To say, the Muslims were bad from their origin, because they expanded their territory is laughable. Every nation - even in the sence of a tribe - did this back then. The Roman Empire had to go. The Franks took over. Countries developed by war or by friendship.

If you look at Spain and Portugal: Who was the owner of the country? The Romans? Those mixtures, who were there after the Roman Empire was down? The Muslims? The Visigoths, who chased away the Muslims?

They all were part of the development of Europe. Europe now is, what it is. Turkey - although a Muslim country - is very close to Europe. And the USA demanded more than once, that we should take Turkey into the EU. We don't do it, because we have our own mind and decide, who can be a member and who can not.

Who are the Islamist countries you fear? There are more, then you talk about. Why? Because the USA is not interested in the poor countries. We are not talking about Marocco, nor Mauretania. The USA are always interested in the countries with oil.

They don't touch Saudi Arabia and they are careful with Egypt. For this time. They are even friendly with Turkey, which is part of the NATO. They even may invade the North of Iraq. They are very useful right now.

Telling the people, that the Muslims are bad by birth and proving it with "history" - because a Frank mayor fought against Muslims also - is laughable right now. It could become dangerous, if it is about identifying another bad people, who have to be eliminated from this planet.

And what I also tried to say: He also fought against other Germanic tribes, including the Saxons. So it becomes more ridiculous, if you spin this thought further: He fought against the Saxons, so he saved us from a thread. Every Saxon, including the Anglo-Saxons is a bad thread to the modern world. Proven by history. Americans are reigned by Wasps. So the biggest threat to the modern societies comes from America.

Funny. That sounds true now!

reply to post by contraband


Exactly. Is is ignorant to believe that the actions we have taken in the middle east has made us safer. We are in much more danger than ever before. More and more countries are starting to see how damaging americas foreign policy really is and if we dont change it soon i fear the worst.

While there are a lot of muslims in that part of the world that get angry or violent towards people of other faiths, it doesnt mean they all are. Some of these people are just pissed that we ignored the UN, invaded their country and destroyed much of it based on a mountain of lies. How do you think other cultures of the world reacted when they saw that happen?

They are not jealous of our freedoms either. That was something that our government put out there to demonize the middle east and gain more support for an invasion. And by the looks of some of the posts, it worked quite well.

The worlds biggest threat are bankers who control governments and support any actions, no matter how evil, as long as their making tons of money.

reply to post by kiwifoot

bet tony represents the real terrorist...

Originally posted by Siddharta

I join the laughter. Karl or Charles Martel threw down the Frisian in 717. 724 he did the same with the Saxons. One year later he fought against the Alemans and Swebes and attacked Bavaria. 732 he won against the Arabs at Tours and Poitiers. 733 again fought against the Frisians. 737 he bet back the Arabians at Avignon and 738 he was responsible for a bloodbath in Saxony.

Yes, he was a great leader and was responsible for the death of many people. Seems there was a lot of collateral damage back then or all those Frisians and Saxons were Muslim during that time.

Your view of history really is very funny!

Glad you're amused. I find it amusing myself that you support exactly what I said (I've helpfully highlighted those bits above), yet laugh at my conception of history, which you find yourself forced to support?

Amusing indeed!

Another amusing thing - even though admitting that what I said was so, you tried to bury that admission in the midst of other issues which are not under discussion here. I'm pretty sure the thread title mentions "Islam", not Frisians, Saxons, etc.

The only conceivable reasons to even bring them up are 1) an attempt at misdirection (well, it works for magicians, doesn't it?) 2)an attempt to find filler material with which to hide the admission that I was actually truthful, or 3) some combination of those two.

Which was it?

reply to post by Siddharta


That reply was so rambling and convoluted that it was difficult to follow, much less respond to, but I'll try to hit some of the high points.

First, you make the claim that "that was just how nations expanded back then". Are you trying to change tack in midstream, and claim islam is somehow a "nation" now rather than a "religion of peace"? If so, where is the capitol of Islam, and what are it's current borders?

If we are to speculate Islamic influence on Europe and America, I'd have to assert that there is a good possibility that America as a nation wouldn't be here at all now if it weren't for the muslim assault on Europe, and particularly al-Andalus, and most certainly it would not be of the character it is now, even if it were here, without those islamic attacks. That's probably not a good tangent for this thread to take, but I can go into it further if you'd like.

Now it WAS amusing of you to try to equate America with Saxony, by going through a twisted series of flawed logical constructs. I give you points for effort, but no cigar.

Please do laugh. It's due to Martel that you aren't living under islamic subjugation at this moment...

...America as a nation wouldn't be here at all now if it weren't for the muslim assault on Europe, and particularly al-Andalus...

Huh...??? Did someone mention the Battle of Al-Andalus..?? :-D :-D :-D

Oh dear lord -- I'm sorry, but this is the most unintentinally hilarious thread I have ever come across... :-D :-D :-D

So basically there are Muslims under the bed, hiding in every shadow and plotting at any minute to leap out and convert us to their creed/slaughter us (probably the same thing)/generally subjugate us -- and that unless we return to the spirit of Charles Martell and the Dark Ages then they are going to prevent the discovery of America, or something on that order.

Damn, those pesky Muslims...Lol!!!!

Seriously this is the best laugh I have ever had on ATS... Thanks! :-)

Originally posted by zarlaan

They don't just attack Western Civilization (America, Western Europe). They attack with barbaric tactics, and by any means to completely erase anybody, or thing that opposes their equally archaic views.

Did someone mention archaic views? :-D :-D :-D

Oh dear, given that you and your friends are invoking the spirit of Charles Martell and the Dark Ages then you might want to check you're not standing in a glass house before you start throwing stones Zarlaan...! ;-)

reply to post by kiwifoot


Tony Blair and his ilk are far more dangerous than anything else. It's funny how he pulls out the Islam card, what with the UK struggling with an influx of unwanted brown people.

Are people really that daft as to take this bloke seriously?

Though, if we really want to call his bluff, we could argue that CIA/TPTB funded Al-Qaeda is indeed a manufactured "threat".

Originally posted by zarlaan

Also, one can argue that these radicals hatred for Western Civilization took its strongest roots with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. That is long before Blair, Bush and Cheney.

I might be being pedantic here, but I imagine that very few of "these radicals" were even born at the time of the Ottoman Empire...Seriously,any that were would have to be pretty old by now...in fact it would be probably be safe to say that any "radicals" still angry over the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would be so old that struggling to get to the toilet on time is more of a concern to them today than strapping on a suicide vest to carry out some sort of "assault" on Europe and America..!!!! :-)

reply to post by kiwifoot


I had no idea these men had time traveling powers !

en.wikipedia.org...

I am driving to Texas to get bush to take me back to the past !

To be on the level though the US has been stirring this up for
a long time per Mr. Perkins.





Even Ron Paul talked about the CIA, Iran, and the Shah.

Mostly due to the oil.

No big surprise there.

I think the Muslims are pretty unhappy about us forcing the creation
of Israel after WW2 down their throat.

1972 was a busy year.

en.wikipedia.org...

We have been pulling this stealth rape and pillage gangster
capitalism all over the world.

A former marine corp general even said as much.



We have been kicking this hornet's nest for awhile.

The pirates are not a new thing, they just dress better now.

Traded in the cutlass and parrot for a suit and lobbyists.







[edit on 5-9-2010 by Ex_MislTech]

This is pretty funny....but true

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[edit on 5-9-2010 by contraband]

Originally posted by OurManInGlasgow

Please do laugh. It's due to Martel that you aren't living under islamic subjugation at this moment...

...America as a nation wouldn't be here at all now if it weren't for the muslim assault on Europe, and particularly al-Andalus...

Huh...??? Did someone mention the Battle of Al-Andalus..?? :-D :-D :-D

"Battle of al-Andalus"? I know of no such battle, nor did I speak of one. If you do know of such a battle, i'd be interested in being enightened. Battles are generally named after the points where they occurred, but al-Andalus is not a point, it's an area. You may be interested to know that the islamic fundamentalists STILL refer to Spain in general as al-Andalus, as if they'd never been kicked out of there...

No, I mentioned no "Battle of al-Andalus", the reference appears to me to be pretty clear to an ASSAULT on al-Andalus. Assaults aren't restricted to points, but can cover fronts and areas...

Oh dear lord -- I'm sorry, but this is the most unintentinally hilarious thread I have ever come across... :-D :-D :-D

Probably so, to you. I've seen folks laugh over things they can't understand before.

So basically there are Muslims under the bed, hiding in every shadow and plotting at any minute to leap out and convert us to their creed/slaughter us (probably the same thing)/generally subjugate us -- and that unless we return to the spirit of Charles Martell and the Dark Ages then they are going to prevent the discovery of America, or something on that order.

Damn, those pesky Muslims...Lol!!!!

Argumentum ad Absurtium. extending an argument to ridiculous extremes that no one else has claimed in order to carry a (non-existent) point. Good way to lose a debate, and often resorted to when you cannot carry an argument with any facts, as appears to be the case here. Rather than addressing any of the points, you bypass them and attempt to ridicule them, but in doing so fail, because you avoid the points altogether in favor of extending the discussion into fantasy, thus attempting to make US answer for statements we never made.

Please, continue. I want to see just how ridiculous you can go.

Seriously this is the best laugh I have ever had on ATS... Thanks! :-)

Like that. Good start.


[edit on 2010/9/5 by nenothtu]

This is pretty funny...but true!



[edit on 5-9-2010 by contraband]

[edit on 5-9-2010 by contraband]

[edit on 5-9-2010 by contraband]

Blair is a stooge and puppet for TPTB.

The greatest threat to humanity comes not from the Islamic radicals. These animals are as common as the murderer statistics on any daily crime report, a commonality that we must do our best to eradicate for nothing is more atrocious than the murder of divine Creations.

The greatest threat today comes from TPTB puppets and the super rich elites who had hoarded up their wealth. If they still continue in this direction, S will surely HTF in no time and soon as many grow hungry and hopeless, and made to fight in senseless TPTB created wars, mass murdering brothers and sisters of which we all are.

I feel like I'm reading an old play book, it's almost like Tony Blair is setting up the stage for an upcoming play.

Let's see, Isn't he attending the Pope's visit Sept. 19 where tens of thousands of worshipers will be attending and major dignitaries, and by chance, the Pope's itinerary was left in a pub right down to every minute detail, hmmm

Sorry, just wanted to throw this awareness out. The fear mongers are working very hard.