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I'm not argueing the fact that some innocents killed is to many, 1 is to many, but it's war, and many times innocents are killed. My consern is the last third of your sentance "most of the ones killed were innocents". Most of who? Most of all the deaths in the war were innocents?
Many innocents were killed, too many, most of the ones killed were innocents.
Iraqbodycount.net, a website that draws on media accounts and eyewitness reports, estimates that between 4,065 and 5,223 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of coalition military action, both during and after the war.
A May 15 Associated Press report gives an estimate of 2,100 to 2,600 civilian deaths, without citing sources.
The US Department of Defense has refused to give any sort of estimate on deaths
Two news organizations have produced estimates of civilian casualties in just the Baghdad area by canvassing hospitals and tallying their records. The Los Angeles Times reported on May 18 that probably between 1,700 and 2,700 civilians were killed in and around Baghdad. The Knight Ridder agency published an estimate of between 1,100 and 2,355 on May 4.
At least 5,000 civilians may have been killed during the invasion of Iraq, an independent research group has claimed. As more evidence is collated, it says, the figure could reach 10,000.
Iraq Body Count (IBC), a volunteer group of British and US academics and researchers, compiled statistics on civilian casualties from media reports and estimated that between 5,000 and 7,000 civilians died in the conflict.
There is to much "smoking gun" information out and available to make the leap that Cheny is lying when he says there was a meeting between Atta and Iraqi intelligence in Prague.
The way I'm reading the evidence is that the jury is still out on 100% positive proof but the preponderence of the evidence supports the meeting as having happened more so than not.
We have examined the allegation that Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague on April 9. Based on the evidence availableincluding investigation by Czech and U.S. authorities plus detainee reportingwe do not believe that such a meeting occurred.
Although, that was one incident that I know of, I can't state which if any of the rest are false, but when you find one, and a big one at that, you can only guess how many others are false.
And a weapons stock pile, trust me thats not the normal wedding gift in Iraq.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Your assertion was that the wedding party in which Iraqi civilians were killed was a terrorist hangout, therefore the civilians were affiliated with terrorism. I could understand that assuming the story is true.
Quote me where I did that. I said and I quote
But then, you proceeded to extend that to the rest of the Iraqi civilian casualities. WRONG
I said nothing to extend anything to the rest of the civilian casualities, I said they are doing a bias and unfair calculation, and THEY are extending all deaths as civilian even terrorist/militia deaths, and those they kill. Then dumping them on the laps of the Coalition.
Yet they still count it as civilian deaths, it is unfair to count malitia and terrorists in a civilian death toll, and very misleading.
Never did anything of the such, I said that this group has posted bias and misleading information in that instance, and if they have done it once, I question how many times they have done it through out their findings. It IS a fact that can be used to discredit the orginization(and I use that term losely) that is doing the "Iraq Body Count". Which again I question anyone that uses such a degrading name, to do something "noble".
That right there tells me a lot about you, and thats where I got most of my assertions. The wedding party cannot be used as a fact to discredit the deaths of the Iraqi citizens. That's where I get my assessment of your bias.
One you'd have to say what those evil things are, prove that 1. HE did them, 2. that they were evil, and 3. not nessassery.
If I don't have what it takes to be a leader because I think Bush has done some evil things excluding the Iraqi war. Then, thank God, cause this world is a lot more #ed up than I thought.
No you don't have to know all the people, you have to know how it works. I was very involved in the intel and special forces community, guess what, we don't care who the f'ing president is, it doesn't change what we find.
I'm glad to see you know personally the entire government of the US because that is the only way you can assess the truth of their statements. Its well founded you would be skeptical of my source, but the fact is, that no one else wants to do that job!
I think I stated how I came to that. But since you must of missed it, I'll recap.
Narcisistic, I wish, not sure how you deduced that, but I could use a little more self-love.
Well again thank you for bring to us the well-balanced view. We should all bow before you generosity(sp?)
From you I get FOX news too, but I came here to get a more well-balanced view of the world and when I go out of my way to present one...
My assessment? or your assessment of me?
As for the fact that you've been there, obviously I was wrong about my deduction that you are like a lot of other on here. Had I had the resources to travel the world, I would, but I'm not going to join the military. Good for you, not sure what that accomplishes accept for proving me wrong about your assessment, so....
Originally posted by FreeMason
How is this lying? I think this thread should be closed with the infallible truth written in giant letters for all to see.
"Not a lie but a mistake of bad memory".
How many of us really remember what we say 3 years ago?
Hell when I'm in debates sometimes I don't even remember what I said a few minutes ago, and then I'll be proven wrong and have to restate myself because what I said was not what I was thinking.
Your accusation of lying is disgusting...I think some form of punishment is in order.