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So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?

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posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



Please just watch this simple video about Why people "Choose" Atheism.


So why did you want me to watch a hostile and somewhat depressed person ranting about how intelligent he thinks he is and how dumb he thinks other people are???

It was a long rant...about why what he believes is better than others...that is all that it is. An angry individual mad at what other people believe.

I'll tell you what though...Atheists talk about God more than most religious people I know.

Why is that? Why the obsession over something you don't believe in?




posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
 



Didn't you say you believed in God? Then don't you feel ashamed of false arguments to promote beliefs?


Yes...I have faith in my belief in God.

No...I'm not ashamed of what others do...I have no control over them.


Do you think I should be ashamed by the actions of others?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 



Do you now realize why there is a stereotype of religious people not being fond of science?


Did I give an opinion about my stance on "science"???

Seems like you will just stick with your assumptions.



And what is the reason you want to know of my beliefs???

So you can maybe learn about them and hear a different persons perspective?

Or do you just want me to state a belief so you can try to find a hole in it and show me how stupid I am???

And I have stated my belief many times...I have faith in my belief in God.

Is there a reason this belief offends you so much?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You're responsible for yourself, you should be ashamed of yourself, not others, unless you have taught them yourself.

Besides, in order to make an argument for God, you have to rebut with false arguments, it's a must.

Do you want a few? I can list some arguments for God:-

Source

# ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
(2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

# MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) God is either necessary or unnecessary.
(2) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

# ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN, a.k.a. GOD OF THE GAPS, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
(2) Only God could have made them so complex.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

# ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, a.k.a. DESIGN/TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
(2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

# ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

# MORAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Person X, a well-known atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

# MORAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, child-molesting, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
(2) That all changed once I became religious.
(3) Therefore, God exists.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



You're responsible for yourself, you should be ashamed of yourself, not others, unless you have taught them yourself.


What exactly should I be ashamed of...my personal belief???

Why would you think that? Have I made any argument for the existence of God?



Besides, in order to make an argument for God, you have to rebut with false arguments, it's a must.


Have I made an argument for God??? Please quote me on that...I would love to see it.

I have stated my personal belief...haven't stated that it is true...I in fact stated that I can't "know" that any of it is true or not...it is simply my belief...and I have faith in that belief for my own personal self.

You are using assumptions as well...using a stereotype of religious people to make assumptions about me. How is that any better than a racist doing the same thing to a black person? Or a fundamentalist doing the same to a gay person?


If you have a specific comment of mine that you do not agree with and would like to argue...please quote it and we shall discuss. But if you are just going to continue with assumptions based off of your stereotypes...I have no interest really.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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I think you would see mass suicides for peoples psyche would be shattered!!! But then somebody would just find another way to lead the masses....for they are sheep and will be lost without a sheppard!!!!



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 



Did I give an opinion about my stance on "science"???


No you did not, nor did I reference your stance on science, I made a remark about the general feelings of evolution and such in religious circles. Unless your name is "religious people", I think it's safe to say I wasn't referring specifically to you.


Seems like you will just stick with your assumptions.


The assumption that religious people generally aren't fond of evolution is self evident.


And what is the reason you want to know of my beliefs???


So I can specifically refer to them and not have you throw a tantrum every time I say something that you think is referring to you and have you claim that I don't know your specific stance on an issue.


Or do you just want me to state a belief so you can try to find a hole in it and show me how stupid I am???


Well, I think you should ask why there is a hole in your belief first of all. Secondly, why is a belief still valid if it has a "hole" in it?

Edit: How can there be a "hole" in something that is basically a "hole"? Is this more religious logic? See, that was an insult of sorts, please quote that if you want evidence of me insulting you.


I have faith in my belief in God.


And you are demonstrating the topics intention of showing how religious people will not debate their beliefs regardless of what is said.


Is there a reason this belief offends you so much?


Is there a reason why people questioning the legitimacy God offends you?

[edit on 3-9-2010 by Whyhi]

[edit on 3-9-2010 by Whyhi]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


" Everying you pointed out was a broad generalization of your OPINION ..."

Everything I pointed out was based on FACTS , not opinion .

1. Religious people will deny anything that proves their beliefs to be false .
Fact , not opinion .
2.Religious folks will use their religious books to deny anything that goes against their religious beliefs .
Fact , not opinion .
3.Religious folks have stoned , drawn-and-quartered , burned alive at the stake , beheaded , etc., those who have differed with their religious beliefs .
Fact , not opinion .
4.Religious folks have excommunicated and branded as 'heretic' those who do not hold the same religious beliefs .
Fact , not opinion .
5.Wars have been , and continue to be , fought in the name of religion .
Fact , not opinion .
6.Religious people continue to do the 'finger-in-the-ears' thing while doing the la-la-la song , when opposing views are presented .
Fact , not opinion .
7.Religious leaders and institutions continue to bilk people out of billions of $$$ in the name of religion .
Fact , not opinion .
8.Well known religious leaders have been busted having sex with prostitutes , while condemning to hell , others who do the same .
Fact , not opinion .
9.Well known religious leaders have been proven to having had homosexual relationships while condemning to hell , others who do the same .
Fact , not opinion .
10.Priests continue to violate innocent children while condemning to hell , others who do the same .
Fact , not opinion .
11.Religious people continue to wait on someone to save them , instead of taking the bull by the horns and correcting these problems themselves .
Fact , not opinion .


Those are the facts mister , not my personal opinions .
And , if you find any of that insulting , guess what ? I find every bit of it insulting myself .

So , get over yourself already .



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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You live another day.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


What exactly should I be ashamed of...my personal belief???


I'm not saying "YOU" personally, i'm saying if anyone is going to be ashamed, it should be of themselves. You can't be "embarassed", "guilty" or "ashamed" of strangers actions, ashame should only be cast as a form of self-guilt.

I'm not saying you should be ashamed of yourself, because in order to be ashamed you have to have wronged someone and understand it. I didn't intend to cast personal aspersions, telling you that you should be ashamed for what you believe, I didn't say that.


Have I made an argument for God??? Please quote me on that...I would love to see it.


I'm saying in order for a person (not you specifically) to make an argument for God, it must be a false or logic defeating argument, or in order to argue your belief. I didn't say you argued your belief on here, i was speaking in general terms. You referring to the plural "you"


I have stated my personal belief...haven't stated that it is true...I in fact stated that I can't "know" that any of it is true or not...it is simply my belief...and I have faith in that belief for my own personal self.


Again, i never said you had said it was true. I'm simply showing that people in general must make false arguments to support their BELIEF, not truth.


You are using assumptions as well...using a stereotype of religious people to make assumptions about me. How is that any better than a racist doing the same thing to a black person? Or a fundamentalist doing the same to a gay person?


Again, wasn't YOU personally, i was saying "in order to believe in God, you (as in anyone or people) have to make false arguments to support their belief for God.


If you have a specific comment of mine that you do not agree with and would like to argue...please quote it and we shall discuss. But if you are just going to continue with assumptions based off of your stereotypes...I have no interest really.


I wasn't stereotyping....i have been misunderstood, but one can stereotype Christians in that their faith shows they have a disregard for logic, for science; a belief without evidence. An Irrational belief.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 



Well, I think you should ask why there is a hole in your belief first of all.


I never said there was a hole in my belief...did I??? Again...feel free to quote me where I said there is a hole in my belief...if in fact I said that...or just continue to make false statements. Either way is fine with me.


And you are demonstrating the topics intention of showing how religious people will not debate their beliefs regardless of what is said.


What would you like to debate? I'm open...I made a statement about my personal belief...what would you like to debate about it? But please debate a point that I have made...not something you make up or come up with from a stereotype you have in your mind.


Is there a reason why people questioning the legitimacy God offends you?


Would you like to quote where I was offended??? In fact I am not offended one bit...I do it myself...doesn't change my faith.

Again...assumptions and just general reading comprehension issues with you.

And are you going to answer every question with a question? Or are you going to try to answer any of my questions?




The assumption that religious people generally aren't fond of evolution is self evident.


I had to save this one for last because it is just too funny. You talk of "logic" a lot...but it seems you fail to use it.

Yes...there are some religious people that aren't fond of evolution or "science" (just like there are some cars that are blue). But that does not mean that if you are a religious person, then you aren't fond of evolution or "science" (just like just because there is a car, doesn't mean it has to be blue).

Do you see how that simple, basic logic works?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 


Star for your post .

I live by the same creed , basically . I am a respectable citizen , I help others in need , I'm kind to strangers , I take in stray animals , I volunteer at the mission for the homeless , I help homeless people on the street , I mow lawns for my neighbors who are older than I am , I still do mechanic work for free for those who can't afford it , I shovel snow for my neighbors who are unable , I give free rides to town when needed ...

I do all of this , and more , never expecting or wanting anything in return .

Just because I am non-religious doesn't mean I am a bad , evil person , who is going to be punished simply for not adhering to any set dogma .

Just sayin ...



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


A lot of those are still your opinion and a generalization of a group of people.

Some of the other statements you put there have changed, you are now stating historical facts...where before you were stating future "predictions" based on those historical facts...which is still in fact your OPINION.

I don't find any of it personally insulting...I find a lot of the things you said personally disgusting acts performed by other people. Which in no way should be reflected back on me because I share a similar belief.


It's so funny how this conversation reflects a lot of the conservative arguments with the ground zero mosque. Stereotyping and reflecting the actions of a few on a group that shares a similar belief.

I wonder what your opinions are on the ground zero mosque???



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


When someone replies directly to my post...and not making a general reply to the topic, and they use the word "you"....call me crazy...but I take it as they are talking to me specifically.



I wasn't stereotyping....i have been misunderstood, but one can stereotype Christians in that their faith shows they have a disregard for logic, for science; a belief without evidence. An Irrational belief.


So you aren't stereotyping...but you think you could if you wanted to???

That seems odd.

Stereotyping is never right...no matter how "right" you think the stereotype is...ask any racist how "right" they think their stereotypes are.

So yes...if that is your way of thinking...then you are no better than a racist, a sexist, or a homophobe.

And to think anyone can claim to be "logical" while holding to stereotypes is very ironic to me.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by OutKast Searcher]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I never directed any of it towards you personally ., I have stated that already , you just can't seem to comprehend that .

You are having the same problem with another poster so , maybe we aren't the problem , maybe you are ?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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It think it would be a great day for the world. Religions are amongst the most divisive organisations on this earth, and have caused more wars than any other organisations, with the exception of the vile Cabal.

So, what would be a viable alternative? I believe we are all divine in our essence, it's just that we have been conditioned out of knowing this by corrupt religions. IMO all we need is human values as a simple frame of reference.

In the words of the Dalai Lama:

"There must be a way of promoting human values without involving religion, based on common sense, experience and recent scientific findings."

The concept is simple, but the effect would be radical. Imagine a world free of lies, of violence, etc. Imagine that community and country leaders would lose their jobs immediately if they lied, police would lose their jobs for inflicting violence, etc, etc.

Since I believe we are all divine in our essence, that would mean we are all love in our essence. By adopting a code of living based on universal human values we would learn to reconcile our true nature with our actions, which would lead to us eventually realising that our essence is love.

Utopian? Perhaps, but also, I believe, a universal truth - and a universal truth which can save us.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

"Sorry God, i just honestly couldn't see any clear evidence for your existence, will you forgive me, i have tried to be a good, honest person"

And if he is as he says he is, he will forgive me. If he doesn't, then why would i want to worship a God like this whether he existed or not. I'm not a servant.

[edit on 3/9/10 by awake_and_aware]


Sigh.. another blasphemy from you. And you expect to see God with this kind of attitude?
Now, I'm beginning to doubt my own self if it's wise to enlight you for fear you'll be seeing the devil instead.

Well if your will is that strong and if what you said is sincere, then at least for once, clear your thought from that devil's influence and be clean.

Study OOBE first to understand the fundamental of your soul without prejudice then we can discuss. Until then there is nothing I can do to put you in my shoe. I have read your mind. You have not read mine yet.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


" And to think anyone can claim to be "logical" while holding to stereotypes is very ironic to me. "

Now , that right there is funny , I don't care who you are !

Do religious folks not do the same ?

Sure they do , just ask any christian or muslim . Christians stereotype all non-believers as sinners , lost , heathen , pagan , etc.

Muslims stereotype all non-believers as infidels , etc.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


You are 'religious' in the truest sense of the word, in my opinion. People like you make the world a much better place to be. People like you are the true kings of the earth.

The word 'religion' has its root in the latin word 'religare' meaning to reconnect, which begs the question reconnect with what? I would suggest it means reconnect with who we really are - reconnect with others and with our oneness, through acts of kindness and generosity. Reconnect with our unblemished soul. This, IMO, is the true religion - labels have no meaning whatsoever, even the word God is a label. God is another word for love. You live and express love in your life in real, practical ways. That's wonderful.

Thank you for being the person you are.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by EasternShadow
 


I actually had an OOBE one time , back when I was in my twenties .

Up until that point , I pretty much went with the flow on 'religious' teachings , although not an active practitioner or follower .

Once having the OOBE however , was when I began to question the validity of 'religion' .

It did not draw me close to 'god' or any of that but, instead , caused me to move towards logic and reasoning .



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