So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?

reply to post by IAMIAM


I would like to share this blog with you. This is a really great blog into understanding how all religion and deities are false.
www.hennessy.id.au...

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

I would like to share this blog with you. This is a really great blog into understanding how all religion and deities are false.
www.hennessy.id.au...

My friend, I looked at the site, read all its pages, and found nothing I did not already know.

All religions are False. I never denied this. In fact, I have made it clear that I belong to no specific creed. I AM a humble follower of Christ, as I understand his teachings. There is no religon around my doctrine. I encourage each to find his own way to the Truth by sharing what I have found. That is all.

All religions are True! To Somebody, or else they would not exist. Just because someone else accepts something as true, does not mean it is the Truth for all.

It is simple my friend. God gave you free will. With this free will you can believe in him or not, name him or not, love him or not, understand his creation as best as you can. It is all up to YOU.

Free will is so precious, even God will not touch it. It is his gift to us. What we cannot do is claim another's free will as our own. They can surrender it to us, they can try to get us to surrender ours to them, but each ultimately has control over their will them selves. Is this not the undeniable TRUTH??

We all have eyes to see, ears to hear, and a mind to comprehend this creation. No one can do this for another
Is this not undeniable TRUTH?

The universe is Massive far beyond Man's comprehension. It extends outwardly to infinity, and inwardly to infinity. We know this by quantum physics, and physics. We also know that randomness does not exist. If it did, existence would be impossible. Atoms would not hold together if electrons took a random course in their orbits. Solar systems would not hold together if planets randomly circled their sun. Everything is in PRECISE order. It is this precise order that proves to me there is a God. God is the whole of creation, something no man has the ability to perceive. Thus, unable to perceive it, some will say it doesn't exist, yet remain dumbfounded by the perfect order of everything. Others will believe God exists and marvel at His power to put everything in perfect order. Is this not undeniable Truth?

I believe Jesus taught the perfect way to live according to God, because of his perfect humble nature and his willingness to die for others. This is the highest form of Love, and I believe that God created all things out of love. This is my belief because I "feel" good living this way. If it brings joy, peace, and happiness, is it folly to pursue it? NO. Is this undeniable Truth?

My friend, I never seek to convert anyone. I merely try to awaken the power of everyone's free will. I want ALL to choose for themselves what is best. To find their own Truth.

Do we not all want to be loved at our very core? Undeniable Truth!
Should we not all give what we expect to receive? Undeniable Truth!

Therefore, all I ask is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!"

Then we can all get along regardless of belief.

Judge not, Love All, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
You are really foolish, i'm sorry. if science was God, the majority of scientists would believe in ancient dogmatic religion and have faith in a supreme overlord of the universe.

If I am the fool my friend, what are your answers to my questions that you so carefully avoid facing?

They are unanswerable, but allude to but one logical answer, an answer that your own arrogance refuses to accept.

I can live with that. The Universe needs Atheists. Without you we would not know as much as we do know about God and HIS creation. So deny him some more, seek to disprove him. Unravel more of his splendors trying to find the end and the beginning. Whether you know it or not, admit it or not, you do a work of God as well, one that is necessary.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


There has never been any logic or reason for believing in any higher power. And you pretend that Science and Religion are equal.

Religion is intellectually bankrupt. Instead of having all the questions, it seems to have all of the answers without critical data. Faith is used, and often demands respect. Any other arena of debate arguments "believers" use to support their beliefs are false arguments would simply not be tolerated or respected.

Just because there is no evidence to prove that there is a God, doesn't mean that there is. It's unscientific because it demands you to have faith in something that cannot be proved.

It's like a medium demanding you believe in his powers to talk to the dead. There is no evidence, and no cold reading is going to prove it that the medium really does have powers.

To be scientific is to look for evidence, update that evidence and continue to refine theories based on circumstancial evidence.

Even if i granted you that your belief in a God is acceptable belief to have, how could you then prove that any bible are infact the "word" of God, all religions are different because they are man-made, not god-made.

That's why religion is completely unscientific and is deception of science, making people believe in legislation and pronouncing it as the "word of GOd" where there is no evidence to prove that certainty.

No religion can be proved right, and they will continue to gather followers on the basis of faith. This faith can cause people to resent or hate other people with other religions.

That's why there is a mess in Northern Ireland, that's why there's a mess in the East and Africa, that's why there was a mess in the medievil times, with crusades killing people as the bible clearly states to kill foreigners and rape and kill slaves in some cases.

I resent faith. Although, for example, i faith in my mother, but i have the nessasary conviction to warrant that faith.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


My friend, we are discussing two different things, which may be causing confusion for you. I am talking about the existence of God, you are talking about the Truth of religion. These are two different things, which make our conversation at odds.

To prove religion false, you would have to first decide which religion we are talking about. Each has its own flavor and interpretation of things. I am not in the business of disproving religion. That is a personal choice and I leave it up to all.

God on the other hand, is the root of all religion. It is the essence of the creation. Everything you set your eyes upon is but a part of the whole which is God. To prove God doesn't exist is to prove existence does not exist.

While we may not be able to see the whole as one being, we can deduce its presence by its parts and how they function together. Here is where you avoid, dodge, evade, and hide from the essential question I continue to ask. Without answering this question you are leaving your own disbelief in God up to the same faith you condemn. Rather silly don't you think?

So, just answer the question. I will ask it one more time. Failure to answer the question will leave me no choice but to leave you to your faith.

How do you account for the precision of the arrangement of all the parts of the universe which defies any chance of random occurrence, ie, the orbit of electrons around the atom, the orbit of planets around a sun, the molecular bonds which hold matter together, and the ever presence of energy which ties it all together?

With Love,

Your Brother

I don't see any further comments here as being constructive and so this will be my last to avoid being more rude and blunt than I would prefer to be. I think those involved in the discussion here are at an impass. Some of us claim our existence and the complexity of the universe alone is evidence of God, while others want more concrete and specific proof. God will never be proven to everyone, because even as scripture says that every knee will bow, there will still be those who refuse to acknowledge him for who he really is.

If any religion could be proved false, it simply would not be followed anymore. Countless religions have passed away because they were proven to be frauds. Those that pass will pass as their flaws are revealed. Since most religions are based off things that can't be proven, and can't be dis-proven either.

As for IAMIAM, I understand what you mean by following Christ yet disregarding religion as a whole. I cannot stand the majority of Christian denominations, and I let no man tell me what truth is except what I can find and verify through the scriptures. I am a Christian, in the sense that I try and imitate Christ. I try and teach what Christ taught, and dont really care for the traditions that we have made more important than truth.

Anyway, this is my last post here. God bless everyone, I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

reply to post by Mykahel


You are wise my friend. I will miss your comments, but understand your departure. I agree we are at an impasse. What this conversation has revealed is both side have their beliefs founded on faith alone. Remarkable coincidence I think.

As I am not out to change ones faith, I will join you in departure from this thread. It has run its course by my observation.

Be well my friend, and I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts around the forums.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Mykahel

Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.



The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.

We all know about Jesus, the difference between me and you is that you take it literally, you would follow every word he said. You believe he could do magic tricks and that makes it all the more valid. You believe he died for everyone's "sins", I don't think he deserves that responsibility (for a sin is subjective) Where as i pick and choose the morals based on my own intelligence and compassion for human kind. Anyway, Jesus came to serve, not to be served. Why not act like Jesus instead of trying to preach it.

I could grant Jesus all the miracles he was supposed to have performed and he's morales and words would still be questionable, and no where does it state that he is the son of God.

It's clear that Jesus is symbolic of the SUN. he isn't THE SON. Jesus is often depicted with a light shining above his head, and his 12 deciples are simply the months of the year "that follow him" The cross is the sign of the zodiac.

I have no respect for people who praise Jesus and pretend their better people for it. No time whatsoever.

Religion has already been proved false. Not to mention the fact of how many religions there are, how many differences and conflictions of ideas there are.

By simple deductive logic at most, only 1 religion will be correct. Even then it's made my man, and no one knows whether God exists so it's a blind prediction.

Like me predicting the distance of the Sun away from Earth without having any data whatsoever.

Please, i urge anybody sitting on the fence to think critically about what they beleive in, certainly take your morales from difference sources just don't label yourself with one of these silly dogmatic religions.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Where as i pick and choose the morals based on my own intelligence and compassion for human kind.

Ahhh So you do speak to God, you have just named him differently.

It is your divine right my friend. And, as you profess to have compassion, I will profess you have God's word within you.

You are right to denounce religion. Trust the words of no man. Listen only to God as you profess you do.

That is enough.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM



Oh yeah!!! my mistake; how silly of me - of course when i said using my own intelligence and compassion i really meant God.

Praise God, thanks for converting me

Peace

A&A

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Oh yeah!!! my mistake; how silly of me - of course when i said using my own intelligence and compassion i really meant God.

Praise God, thanks for converting me

Peace

A&A

LOL excellent reply my friend. God is but a word. That was my point. I say if you have compassion and intellect to use it, then you have the Word of God. You say, no I just have compassion and intellect.

Can you not see that the only difference is a word?

God is not the word God. It is just a label to differentiate one concept from another. I can perfectly understand your revulsion at the word God. Look what humans have done to the concept. However, the original underlying concept still resides in all of us to varying degrees. Intellect and compassion.

You my friend are the High Priest of Non-God, and I am proud to know you as a Brother.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

LOL excellent reply my friend. God is but a word. That was my point. I say if you have compassion and intellect to use it, then you have the Word of God. You say, no I just have compassion and intellect.

Can you not see that the only difference is a word?

God is not the word God. It is just a label to differentiate one concept from another. I can perfectly understand your revulsion at the word God. Look what humans have done to the concept. However, the original underlying concept still resides in all of us to varying degrees. Intellect and compassion.

You my friend are the High Priest of Non-God, and I am proud to know you as a Brother.

With Love,

Your Brother

Thanks for the response, i don't intend to be zelous or condescendingly sarcastic.I see what you say about the word God, and yet i'm still uncertain as to whether you're a Deist.

If you refer to God as the overall power or forces that seem to bring order to our universe then that's fair enough. On the same token, a member of the religion of the Jedi might call the same thing "The Force"

Like you said, i don't like the word God because what man has done to it throughout our history. They have personified it, given the governing force of the universe emotions and desires which we cannot prove it has.

For that reason, and i'm sure you'll agree, religion is false, or at ;east any religion that requires the subscription to the belief in a deity.

Man doesn't deal in revealed wisdom, he must have the data and the evidence before he can accumulate knowledge and wisdom.

One of my favourite quotes: "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

Peace,

A&A

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Thanks for the response, i don't intend to be zelous or condescendingly sarcastic.I see what you say about the word God, and yet i'm still uncertain as to whether you're a Deist.

My friend, my understanding of God is my own. I will not put a label on it, because I do not want to limit it or have others subscribe to it. Each are free to come to their own understanding and name, as you have, with or without it being called God.

Originally posted by awake_and_awareIf you refer to God as the overall power or forces that seem to bring order to our universe then that's fair enough. On the same token, a member of the religion of the Jedi might call the same thing "The Force"

And, they are absolutely correct! For themselves at least. Words are not God, just our humble attempt to define this existence.

Originally posted by awake_and_awareLike you said, i don't like the word God because what man has done to it throughout our history. They have personified it, given the governing force of the universe emotions and desires which we cannot prove it has.

For that reason, and i'm sure you'll agree, religion is false, or any religion when subscribing to the belief in a deity is false.

Religion is false if one finds it false. We cannot decide what is true for each other, only what is Truth for us. We all have the right to know our own Truth. What we do not have the right to do is decide what is Truth for another.

If I had the power to make you accept my Truth, this conversation would have ended long ago. That is not what I try to do anyway. All I want to know is what is your Truth. And, I certainly understand you better than when we began conversing. You are not a cold blooded immoral Atheist. You are a Man who has the same love and compassion as I do. That is divine from my perspective.

Originally posted by awake_and_awareMan doesn't deal in revealed wisdom, he must have the data and the evidence before he can accumulate knowledge and wisdom.

Haven't we revealed a lot of wisdom together in this thread? It came from data and evidence that we shared with each other.

Originally posted by awake_and_awareOne of my favourite quotes: "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

LOL, I shall keep this one for another day!

Originally posted by awake_and_awarePeace

wisdom!

It has certainly been an enjoyable discussion my friend. I look forward to more.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Religion is false if one finds it false. We cannot decide what is true for each other, only what is Truth for us. We all have the right to know our own Truth. What we do not have the right to do is decide what is Truth for another.

Here, i disagree. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, For example, the truth of a beautiful piece of music, a piece of art or to a specific religion. It is up to personal opinion.

I'm talking about absolute truth. Like the truth that our planet is an oblate spheroid. Nothing is going to change that truth.The truth that we have two legs, or that we know the bright lights in the sky are Stars and how they form.

Religion doesn't have any founding for it's belief system, so therefore it is up to your personal faith ( a belief without evidence, or a blind belief) to decide whether it's true to you, that doesn't make it absolutely true though.

Like if i was to say there is a powerful teapot on mars, just because i can't prove it to be false, doesn't mean it is true.

Haven't we revealed a lot of wisdom together in this thread? It came from data and evidence that we shared with each other.

Debating or stating our own personal opinions isn't necessarily considered wisdom. But we can share our own truths and we have the conviction of evidence, data and sometimes even logic to consider whether our statements are absolutely true or have enough reason to warrant the description of "wisdom"

Peace,

A&A

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Here, i disagree. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, For example, the truth of a beautiful piece of music, a piece of art or to a specific religion. It is up to personal opinion.

I'm talking about absolute truth. Like the truth that our planet is an oblate spheroid. Nothing is going to change that truth.The truth that we have two legs, or that we know the bright lights in the sky are Stars and how they form.

My friend, I said everyone has a right to their truth. I never said it was absolute Truth. Absolute Truth on anything is impossible because we lack the perception to define it. We can only define truth for ourselves based on our limited perception.

Originally posted by awake_and_awareReligion doesn't have any founding for it's belief system, so therefore it is up to your personal faith ( a belief without evidence, or a blind belief) to decide whether it's true to you, that doesn't make it absolutely true though.

Yep, this is what I said

Originally posted by awake_and_awareLike if i was to say there is a powerful teapot on mars, just because i can't prove it to be false, doesn't mean it is true.

But it is true to you if you believe it.

Originally posted by awake_and_awareDebating or stating our own personal opinions isn't necessarily considered wisdom. But we can share our own truths and we have the conviction of evidence, data and sometimes even logic to consider whether our statements are absolutely true or have enough reason to warrant the description of "wisdom"

The wisdom is in the sharing, not the conclusion, for regardless of the Truth we arrive at, it is not the absolute Truth for neither of us have enough facts to know the absolute Truth. No even if we invited every man, woman, and child into the conversation.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Religion denies wisdom even in the light of evidence to support that wisdom's absolute truth. Evolution has been denied in spite of the evidence pointing in it's favour. Islamic schools actively teach children against it.

Gallileo was opressed because he stated the word was round rather than flat. Guess who opressed him.... the religious congressmen.

All because they thought they were right or true, without evidence, their pride still caused them to doubt proven sciences like Evolution or archeaology when evidence is presented to them.

Religion is not "true". Religion is faith, a belief without knowing it's truth. People should believe in such things if they have evidence that it is absolutely true, otherwise your just believing something to be true when it could be absolutely wrong, this has bad implications for human-kind.

Look at the crucades, look at Ireland, look at the middle-east, look at the witch hunts. Everyone thinks their religion is TRUE, there is no evidence. If we didn't believe things without evidence the world would get along much better and embrace science and absolute truth.

One day i hope we can think critically about our belief systems. Maybe one day when human-kind is mature enough.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


My friend, we are deviating further from the center we found.

Here is wisdom. You cannot change another's will with your will.
Try it. If you succeed, let me know.

Here is wisdom. You cannot decide for another what is true.
Try it. If you succeed, let me know


You are voicing what is true for you. I hear you. I agree with more of it than you know. BUT, it is not the truth for all. You do not have absolute Truth. Neither do I.

That is all I am saying. If you come to terms with these truths, you will be much more at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Exactly i do not have absolute truth, so i cannot be sure of any God theory, or any fact that Jesus was son of God. I simply will not consider them facts. It's not down to personal belief, It's down to the lack of evidence. Simply put.

If people wish to believe in things without evidence, far be in from me to stop them. I only wish for some logic, reasoning, and some scientific methodology into any belief, otherwise, i will continue to call it an irrational belief. That's what i'm here to do, to spread the word.

For people to believe in absolute truth, That science can bring us together, to help each other, to create medicines, to improve our lives.

I don't have the power, nor do i wish to have to power to stop people from spending time believing in nonsense, but hopefully they will see that it gets us no where but further from the truth.

Religion is always false. Human existance is a false as well. We manufacture references to make A, B , C exist.

Without reference we can't remember people.

That said religion is necessary for most humans Without religion human may not be able to grow. if there is no GOD , the purpose to live do not exist unless you evolved to higher level of understanding.

Originally posted by pokerking
the purpose to live do not exist unless you evolved to higher level of understanding.

My friend, how about DIFFERENT understanding rather than higher understanding.

Personally I do not see your understanding as any higher than my own. What I perceive makes your understanding lower than my own is your need to elevate yourself above others who simply see things differently.

It is a tired argument to throw out the ole, "if you can't see it my way, your just of a lower understanding".

BS. If it makes you feel good, keep it.

I am neither above you, nor below you. I AM right here with you.

With Love,

Your Brother