So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?

Sometimes things happen repeatedly that leave not one speck of doubt in persons mind. Here is one Christians story of why he now believes but wasn't so sure before.

He said this...

"when I was growing up my mother was heavily involved in demonic activities, I repeatedly witnessed abnormal supernatural activities in my house. Besides the fact that it was very scary, it made me think; if this side exists and can do these things, then that must mean the other side(God, Jesus and the angels) also exists. I don't care to relate what I saw and heard on many occasions but it was enough to convince me God's enemies exist and have power, which means he does too, I felt I need to pick a side"

I am sure this christian is very confident in his faith.




[edit on 4-9-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

My uptake on all of this is simple.

As beings in this universe I too have the question .
Who is responsible?

The answer is also simple. We were allowed to exist because of the ultimate being in this dimension and we can call him Father or the I AM not much more to say but as the cosmos is infinite, there may be many I AMs.
Peace and love to all!

I think that the OP is really posed at the fundamentalists, as opposed to those who have a more sophisticated view. By "sophisticated view" I mean those who have activiely distanced themselves from the tyranny of established religion. So science has proven that god does not exist? No they have not conclussively proven anything. Science states it UNLIKELY that god does not exist in terms of the the creation myths.

The other problem with the OP is that it embodies the "one right way" mentality. Hence there is a choice to join one of two teams. Scientism versus fundamentalism. This is fine for a thought experiment but perhaps not for getting to the depths of the situation.

Here is a strange personal fact about me. I am an ex PHD candidate in bioscience (turned businessman) who also believes in god and am a practicing occultist. I am relaxed with paradoxs unlike many westerners. Not everything in life is binary(right or wrong).

Religious sentiments are more for artistsic people and those who love poetry.

The true nefarious purpose of this question, beyond a intellectual curiousity as to how many people will actually answer the question itself (very few have answered it..mostly athiests and agnostics..religious people have decided not to answer the question as it disturbs them to think) is simple...I am into the ET phenomona..some of the excuses why there has been no disclosure is that it may disrupt and eliminate some major religions and they would flip right the hell out if they found out their structured institutionalized belief system flopped. I wanted to see if that is true...and after this thread, I have realized that it may be just that.

The religious, except for a couple posts, have willfully ignored the topic, the question, and therefore have proven, to me at least, that they either cannot or will not ponder such questions...like the girlfriend you once had where even though you two were in love, you did make plans for a seperation for whatever reason, either breakup or sudden death, and she simply refuses to talk about it in any degree because she cannot accept the reality of...reality.
Of course, if there is a breakup or whatnot after, she becomes completely shattered for awhile because she never thought forward and pondered all situations and how to react...

I feel sorrow for the life not examined, but meh...thats their choice...this thread is pretty much done as there is now an absolute refusal lately for the question to be answered...so its sort of wheel spinning. Thanks to the athiests and agnostics and the odd spiritualist that did in fact answer the question to the best of their ability...I appreciate the effort and congratulations in adding to a discussion on ATS verses just creating white noise...

[edit on 4-9-2010 by SaturnFX]

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

If/When?

Theism/Religion has always been false.

Deism has not been proved wrong or right. It's unfalsifiable (currently)

And thus, neither has Atheism been proved either way.

Agnosticism seems the best approach to have in terms of a creator or source of the universe, however we are all Atheists when it comes to man made theories of God, with special little stories to believe in by the very language we created.

We have to look at Occam's Razor, ask what we scientifically and evidently know, and then ask ourselves? Are we just making unnessasary assumptions? Why have we personified the creative forces or laws of the universe? Why are we acting like Kids and Santa?

Good post, my exact sentiments.
Religion is and always has been a control mechanism for the power hungry preying upon the weak who are looking for more than what this existence provides. Religion was created by man. We know there is a Creator of some kind responsible for this existence, but what it is no one really knows. Faith is nothing more than the belief in an idea with no factual evidence.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

How is this proof obtained and from what or who?

Star for you, mainly for being amusingly anxious and upset about this.

Don't worry, they'll never prove God doesn't exist. I speak as an atheist. Still, that wasn't what the OP was asking--it was, 'what if (your) religion was proven false?' At least, that's how I interpret it. And religions can be proven false--imagine some enterprising archaeologist stumbling across the entombed body of Jesus, lying next to the Magdelene's. Actually I reckon that's impossible, but there may be other, less far-fetched disproofs. The same goes for any other religion.

Plenty of religious ideas have been disproved already. In the second century, Irinaeus, who was the first person to compile a list of books to be included in what would one day be called the New Testament, insisted that only four gospels (out of the many then in circulation) could be authentic. One of his reasons was that the Earth has four winds and four corners, so four had to be the natural number of gospels. That Earth had four corners was an important element of faith once, but it isn't any more.

*

To answer the OP's question: well, I'm an atheist, so the disproof of any particular religion is unlikely to make any personal difference. As far as feelings go, I think they would be mixed: relief that a fetter had been loosed from the body of humanity, but also regret for the loss of an important cultural dynamo, a source of energy for the creation of much beauty and philosophy. Religions, like all human things, are neither all bad nor all good.

I should also wonder, if religion withered away altogether, what we might seek to replace it with, and whether we would still be human without it.

If God were proved not to exist, I should feel very different. Profoundly relieved, of course, to know that there was no unfathomable, unpredictable Power who could treat you just as He pleased and didn't seem to be very easy to please. But I think I should also feel a loss. There is religious feeling in all of us, even atheists, and it would be a pity to have it shown, once and for all without possibility of compromise, that there is nothing in heaven or earth worthy of awe and reverence, nothing that deserves worship.

I think we would be the poorer for it, in the end; even though I'm an atheist, I'm rather glad that the existence of God can never be disproved.

reply to post by Astyanax


let's just start our own religion up, the flying teapot that orbits a solar system we have never seen, it does exist, you can't prove me wrong hahaha i'm so clever and witty.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Some take a bold step and leave entirely, others add it to their endless list of doubts, and some may act upon it on the outside but inside they have left, in order not to be condemned by their local community and others actually will have not accept what has happened and have even firmer belief in their religion.

-Naeem

reply to post by SaturnFX


I myself have often made thought experiments that IF UFO's are controlled by Superior Intelligence that came from another planet what could POSSIBLY be the purpose/benefit from not disclosing this information? What could be the harm in disclosure of this information if it is true?

I have been able to find nothing but reasons NOT to disclose.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." -MIB

-If information of this caliber was released it would destroy any type of trust for the government that people ever had.

-NO ONE would go to work. Not EMT's, not the power company, not truck drivers,not lawyers (well maybe lawyers). People would want to learn as much as they possibly could and be with their families. The entire planets infrastructure would shut down instantly. Ask yourself this question would YOU go to work? I sure wouldn't and I will bet money that the majority of the other 7 Billion of us would not either.

-Phone lines would shut down from 7 Billion people using them at the same time. The worlds stock stock markets would have to be frozen for who knows how long perhaps as long as a month or more. Internet would bottleneck.

-Religion. Oh sweet dear religion. Rapture/Apocalypse/you name it people would see it as a sign. The very first QUESTION many of these people would ask will be "Do you believe in Jesus, Allah, Jewish God, Tom Cruise Xenu , etc." and if the answer is no? What do you HONESTLY think people would do if our neighbors from another solar system had never even heard of their respective religious beliefs?

There are nothing but cons to ever having this information released to the public.

As long as faith trumps logic among our species we are not ready to handle knowledge of this type. Faith is a license to intentionally disregard Scientific Data.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

You want to worship a teapot? I'm a coffee man myself, most of the time.

Besides, somebody else already did the teapot. I hate being unoriginal.

You know, that chap with the robot avatar has a point. Not a single religious person has yet answered the OP question. You think they suspect a trap?

reply to post by Astyanax


Yes, i've heard Dawkins mention the teapot theory, originality was not my intention.

In the words of Admiral Ackbar; it's a trap!

how could that be proven? according to science it has already been proven
I'f you truly believe with blind faith there nothing that will change your mind

reply to post by SaturnFX


And that's all I'm trying to say. Glad to see we're on the same page...
2

I think the question the OP asks is flawed.

Upon realisation that religion is a load of bull, we wont asking why is it false? Why is it wrong?

We will be asking, what is the next thing that humans will want to blindly believe in? What else could hold our attention, and captivate our hearts and minds enough to enable us kill people blithely because we think it fits in with said ideology, convictions or cultures?

As an atheist, I don't believe that religion is the causal problem (although it is a self-propagating symptom). I think that the tragic human trait of holding blind convictions, and our aptitude for negligible empiricism are the root problems. If we can evolve these out of our species, religion and most other stupidity will die out accordingly as a natural result of said evolution.

But this is all hear-say of course....

Parallex.

reply to post by EasternShadow

EDIT: OOPS! I almost forget. Remember when Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge from the garden? They see the new world and find themselves naked. They become so ashamed with themselves that they did not dare to face God.That's precisely what happen to you and precisely what the devil wants. It's very rare I would like to use ancient text as reference. But there are truth in it and this is one of it.

Actually, there is no truth at all in your ancient text reference. The story of Adam & Eve, of the Serpent, of Noah, of Moses being found in a boat as a baby are nothing more than modified versions of stories that first appeared in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Epic itself is merely the first written version of stories and legends that were popular throughout the ancient Middle East.

The Jews took over the concept of the "Devil" from Zoroastrianism, where he is known as Ahriman. In fact, the entire concept of good versus evil was adopted by the Jews from Zoroastrian influences.

It will be a great day for humanity when organized religion vanishes from this earth and is replaced by philosophical morals and ethics. In that way humanity receives the best aspects of organized religion without having to deal with the worst aspects of organized religion. Unfortunately I do not believe that is possible. Superstitious folk will start creating deities to support the philosophy and once that begins organized religion will surely follow.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I guess you will then bend over and kiss your own arce goodbye because you have fallen for it Hook, Line and Sinker.

Religion was created by the Catholic Church to control and contain the masses. It is considered the Opiate of the Masses. The Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. did enough harm to hide the truth of the matter from mankind for all time or until such a time as we were smart enough to figure it all out (which is now the case).

The Sumerians knew the truth, hell they wrote about it. Every culture since wrote and re-wrote that story to fit images within their own cultural icons so that the story is the same, just the names have been changed, and I promise, it was not done to protect anyone.

I suppose the question is flawed, it may be rather impossible to really disprove religion.

BUT, if I were a fly on the wall, when Joe Smith was concocting the golden plates story with his cohorts, would I give up my five wives, and tell my kids it's all a lie?

Maybe not. No, I have no intention of bashing Mormons, just an extreme example really, but in the practical world, we may want alternatives, before we rushed on to the next thing, even if it was mere "agnosticism".

So, my personal experience here. I was raised a "something", and probably believed much of it too, but came to see it for what is was, just something to control people, with not much to go on.

Still, I will confess that I had "personal" baggage, and being raised with certain beliefs leaves you vulnerable to interpreting life's drama, against that paradigm.

The women in my family for example, seemed to have had "miraculous" things happen to them, and it naturally inserted itself in our own family history as accepted "fact".

How about a picture of Jesus that survived a house burning down, all except for a small singe on it's old frame? This picture is in my house today, frame and all! I don't honestly know what could have happened.

My own mother ended up in the hospital with headaches so bad, that even morphine wasn't working. A holy man put his hands upon her head, and prayed. Instantly cured. She lived another 25 years, and never really had much of a headache again. Doctors had no explanation.

I have experienced other more recent things, completely unexplainable, beyond all probabilities, involving life and death. Frankly, I'm reminded of a Darwin quote, these things can sometimes give me a cold shiver!

AND YET, I have examined no solid evidence to the contrary, that would induce me to change my current agnostic position.

Feelings... I do sometimes wish I could believe in a wonderful friend in the sky, or wherever, who actually gave a damn about the world, or people, or maybe me, even. But I honestly think I would be indulging in sentimentalism to do so.

And integrity is important to me. "To thine own self be true..."

SO I continue to choose not to deceive myself, in spite of real temptations to "believe" in things that fill in the blanks.

Do I know what happens after death? No. And just "believing" won't do, nor will jumping on the latest New Age nonsense cut it for me either.

It's not easy, but who ever promised us a rose garden anyway?

And now on to my five wives and kids. Uh, no, I'm not Mormon, honestly! BUT, since I don't have an alternative really, what can I offer to really fill in the blanks that religion offers?

What I have done is just sort of go with the flow, on the home-front at least. While I don't actually go to church anymore (haven't for a while), I did for a fairly long time, keeping up appearances, sort of, "for the family". My wife knew of my "true" feelings, but maybe still hoped that I would eventually get with the program. Well, I didn't! But, did I try and rock the boat too much with the kids? No. Again, I don't have anything to offer as a serious alternative.

As a matter of fact, agnosticism was independently arrived at by my eldest son as well. Oh sure, maybe he picked up the fact that I was not at church like his mother, etc., but I respect the fact that when he finally came to me, at age 21, and asked me about it, I felt I could share with him my true feelings, without reproach. He asked me many questions, and I just flat told him my thoughts on the matter.

To this day, I don't feel as if I made the wrong decision. No, I'm not fooling anyone anymore, but no one can say that I tried to impose my journey, upon the more vulnerable.

Sometimes, I wish my parents had done the same for me.

JR

PS: S & F from me, for making me think about this!

For me it wont really change much, i walked away from religion when i figured out how corupt most major religions, and how humans use religion to gain, control, what ever suits them, for me spirituality will always exist, it dosent need a name, dosent need a sacrifice, its always present where ever you are, we get to see miracles daily, that most just brush off, a sunset, the tides, shooting stars, the birth of a child, death, these are all the miracles that makes this world a great place to live.

I will feel sorrow for the ones who need religion to help them throught there day, i will feel compassion and il try my best to help them.

And to all those evil people eheheh, what ever you do in life, you will die like the rest of us, so hope that on your death bed yalll pray to that evil god eheheh to give ya super powers eheheh,

Love yourself, love your friends, family, love life

PS: excuse me for any grammar errors english is my second language

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by 547000
I don't know how accurate the OT was, but I know some of the NT is true. If the Crucifixion is said to be false, I would be very skeptical indeed, because my own experience tells me otherwise. If it were proven without doubt, I would probably just believe in God as a universal energy. If it was proven there is no God or afterlife I would just be depressed and nihilistic for my remaining time here.

What in the NT is true? You seem to not to know what the so called OT and the so called NT are.
www.messiahtruth.com...

The crucifixion is true, and the holy spirit is true. I can't prove it despite knowing it.

I don't believe in Jesus and I doubt he ever existed. But you need to understand more of the OT from Judaism perspective.

No, I don't. No thank you. Jesus is evil, remember? I have nothing to learn from you.

Originally posted by davidmann

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by 547000
I don't know how accurate the OT was, but I know some of the NT is true. If the Crucifixion is said to be false, I would be very skeptical indeed, because my own experience tells me otherwise. If it were proven without doubt, I would probably just believe in God as a universal energy. If it was proven there is no God or afterlife I would just be depressed and nihilistic for my remaining time here.

What in the NT is true? You seem to not to know what the so called OT and the so called NT are.
www.messiahtruth.com...

The crucifixion is true, and the holy spirit is true. I can't prove it despite knowing it.

I don't believe in Jesus and I doubt he ever existed. But you need to understand more of the OT from Judaism perspective.

No, I don't. No thank you. Jesus is evil, remember? I have nothing to learn from you.

You're learning already! It's good to see someone learning finally.
www.evilbible.com...