Do You Believe In Transsexualism?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's not mutilation. If I have a growth that I want removed, it's not mutilation.

If something is missing from my body and medicine can replace it, it's MY business to do it or not.

Your not missing a penis if your born a women.

That's my whole point!

reply to post by LordBucket


You are really trying to make me think today aren't you.

I would say you are correct that the "me" is the spirit, and the body is just a vessel.

In the analogy of "I'm driving the motorcycle today," and cutting and piecing our body together to make it fit better, I don't think it is the same as putting new fairings on the motorcycle.

In my example, I said that I can't jump in any vehicle and drive it just like my truck. Even if I put a truck bed on motorcycle, or handlebars on my boat instead of a steering wheel, they still each have too many quirks and requirements to assume they are going to operate the same. Plus, my motorcycle won't drive or handle right if I put a truck bed on it, my boat won't handle right or be efficient if I mount tires to it. In order to be entirely effective and efficient and enjoy the uniqueness that each vessel represents, I need to be able to take it and drive it in its current form, without too much modification. Otherwise, I am missing out on the whole experience.

Your example of putting new fairings on the motorcycle is more like me getting a haircut, or working out a little, it is not like gaining or losing a penis! That is major functional change, and I don't recommend it! You will never catch me turning my motorcycle into a unicycle or mounting fancy chrome rims and tires on an airplane or a boat!

reply to post by muzzleflash


Negative. Did you read the link that I posted? It should help you understand that Science has proven through experiments and research that the male and female brain are different physically and chemically FROM BIRTH. It does not mean that Science is out to get men or women. It is simply DATA! How you interpret that data is up to you.

www.cerebromente.org.br...

Studying Differences in the Brain
There are now a number of sophisticated neuroscientific methods which allow scientists to probe minute differences between any two groups of brains. There are several approaches, brought forth by advancements in computerized image processing, such as tomography (detailed imaging of the brain using "slices"):


1. volumetric measurements of brain parts: a region is defined, and the computer, working with a pile of slices, calculates the areas of the brain region, and then integrates numerically several areas in order to calculate its approximate volume. Statistical analysis of samples containing several brains are able to discover (or not) any differences in volume, thickness, etc.

2. functional imaging: using advanced devices, such as PET (Positron Emission Tomography), fMRI (functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging) or Brain Topographic Electroencephalography, researchers are able to visualize in two and three dimensions what parts of brain are functionally activated when a given task is performed by the subjects.

3. post-mortem examinations. The brains of deceased individuals are excised and sliced. Modern image analysis techniques are used to detect quantitative differences, such as the number and form of neurons and other brain cells, the area, thickness and volumes of brain regions, etc.

It is scientific DATA. DO NOT confuse it with sexual prejudice.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by fooks

so where do we stand? christians? against.

muslim? death.

jew? against.

hindu, no prob.

tao? they don't care.

Another example of Societal Stereotyping!!

There are Christians for and against it.
There are Muslims who do not seek death penalty over this.
There are Jews who are for this.
There are Hindus who do have a problem with this.
There are Taoists who do care about it.

True facts.

Stop stereotyping a large group of people into narrow belief systems.

"If you are X than you believe Y". That's very ignorant, I believe.

Labeling people to classify their beliefs in vast over-generalized scales is a major form of misconception of reality. Reality is not like this. Everyone is different and thinks differently---that is reality!

That is why I am against Trans-sexual propaganda. Because people use stereotypes and prejudices to PUNISH folks into feeling so guilty for their behaviors/likes-dislikes/etc; that they will actually MUTILATE themselves and ruin their lives permanently over it.

That's how strong prejudice really is. It hurts people so bad inside, and confuses them so much, that they will do the unthinkable as a result of it.

Well it needs to stop. It's just hardcore wrong.

hi muzz, just giving a general overview of that, nothing against you at all.

you know there are lots of suicides of trannies? because of rejection? ever hear of thailand?

look, i don't know where you stand on this issue. well maybe i do.

or anyone else and i don't care, these people that go through the nightmare of painful emotional and physical torment and actually make a life for themselves are stronger than us straight peoples. lol, true.

i know plenty and they are better than straight people, emotionally and careingly. never met one have you?

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Again you read absolutely nothing that I wrote. If you had you would have learned that I described the differences between the male and the female brain.

The Mutation is at birth. A person BORN with the body of a male and the brain of a female or the body of a female and the brain of a male.

Do you understand now?

No your not explaining anything.

You are just repetitively replying that "I didn't read your post".

Seriously. Debate my points or put me on ignore. Stop replying with non-sense that doesn't debunk anything I say. Actually debate those points.

"Oh you didn't read what I said". What a cop out. You can't even debate the points at hand.

Stop turning this into a "personal" thing. Ad-Hominem attacks at their best.

Debate the points not the person. I debated everything you said. And there is no decent counter-debate?

Originally posted by fooks

i know plenty and they are better than straight people, emotionally and careingly. never met one have you?

Keep the stereotypes and prejudices coming.

It makes it real easy to win the debate.

I thank you for that.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It's not mutilation. If I have a growth that I want removed, it's not mutilation. If something is missing from my body and medicine can replace it, it's MY business to do it or not.

A "growth" is something that doesn't belong there, it isn't functional, and might even be hindering healthy function of other body parts. A penis is not a growth! It is functional, it serves a purpose, and it doesn't hinder any other body part (except for maybe brain function!). Plus, they can be a whole lot of fun!!

Sure, it is "your" business, but if you all of a sudden decided that you needed to lose 50 pounds, and you thought the best way to do it was to remove the "growth" that others call your left leg. Don't you think it would be prudent for someone to step in and question your decision, maybe provide psychological evaluation, maybe even refuse to do the surgery based on the hypocratic oath?

reply to post by LordBucket


What would make them want to do that?

Many things; social unacceptance, severe depression, childhood abuse, psychological disorder.

If you know that I've been here long enough to realise that some people write threads with no intention to listen to others then you'll also know that, in general, that's something I've never done.

I don't think the technology should be made so that it's possible to change your sex, unfortunate as it may seem to you but we are born the way we are born and anything else is messing with nature.

Unless you consider transsexuality as an illness, then if we had the technology to "cure" it then I'd have no problem.

Using technology to correct illness is fine, but using it to correct unhappy feelings is wrong in my opinon.

I don't agree with cosmetic surgery either, unless the patient has a certain condition that leads them to be severely depressed. I can't stand women getting breast implants just because they think they should or to become "sexier"

[edit on 3/9/10 by Death_Kron]

reply to post by muzzleflash


if you really read my post, you would see i am for these people.

lol, common dude, the only stereotypes are the regular folk that have never been in contact with these people.

Just to throw something into some of the misleading stuff about 'mutilation' etc ... It's been touched on a little but just glossed over.

These types of efforts in medicine do actually save lives. I've heard it described by my endocrinologist as a tragic diagnosis, but that's mainly because of how society reacts to it. The act of the change or correction depending how you feel about it makes many people more stable, more relaxed, and into much more productive human beings.

If it saves lives is it such a bad thing?

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps

It is scientific DATA. DO NOT confuse it with sexual prejudice.

It is sexual prejudice because you are MISINTERPRETING the data!

If even 1 male is born with a "female" brain, it disproves your theory that the chemical differences are sexual differences.

Only men are born with men brains, and only women are born with women brains. This is simple semantics.

If a man is born with a female brain, this makes no sense because the words definitions are being mixed up and misunderstood.

Clearly these chemical differences have nothing to do with female vs male sexual-ism. Clearly this is a case of misinterpreting the data to fit preconceived notions.

Just think about it for a minute and question it. It's easy to tear apart.

Originally posted by Pinke
Just to throw something into some of the misleading stuff about 'mutilation' etc ... It's been touched on a little but just glossed over.

These types of efforts in medicine do actually save lives. I've heard it described by my endocrinologist as a tragic diagnosis, but that's mainly because of how society reacts to it. The act of the change or correction depending how you feel about it makes many people more stable, more relaxed, and into much more productive human beings.

If it saves lives is it such a bad thing?

Excuse me for being naive but how can a man having his penis chopped off, an artificial vagina created from the remaining folds of skin, wearing women's clothing, putting on make up and a fake voice make anyone more stable or relaxed?

I'm sorry but I really just don't understand that.

And Man can not understand or truly comprehend what it is to give birth.

To make statements that its wrong for people to want to change their birth gender because they feel they were born in the wrong body - - is making statements and assumptions you truly can not understand.

The difference in the brain chemical structure may NOT actually be gender related, since a guy can be born with a girl's brain.

This may actually be PERSONALITY type differences rather than having ANYTHING to do with gender.

Thus Misinterpretation of the Data due to preconceived notions.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Again you read absolutely nothing that I wrote. If you had you would have learned that I described the differences between the male and the female brain.

The Mutation is at birth. A person BORN with the body of a male and the brain of a female or the body of a female and the brain of a male.

Do you understand now?

No your not explaining anything.

You are just repetitively replying that "I didn't read your post".

Seriously. Debate my points or put me on ignore. Stop replying with non-sense that doesn't debunk anything I say. Actually debate those points.

"Oh you didn't read what I said". What a cop out. You can't even debate the points at hand.

Stop turning this into a "personal" thing. Ad-Hominem attacks at their best.

Debate the points not the person. I debated everything you said. And there is no decent counter-debate?

When did I turn it into a "personal thing"? I provided examples of the Science showing the differences between the female and male brain and you completely ignored ALL of it. Perhaps you could debate the Scientific Evidence I provided instead of trying to ignore it completely?

PLEASE READ THE SCIENTIFIC DATA that I posted and respond to the data.

reply to post by muzzleflash



so nobody can change? even if they can do it?

you some kind of taliban? sex guy to stone peoples?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

So... transsexuals, who go through years of counseling are just confused and ignorant, huh?

Show me one human being that is not confused or ignorant about something. Got 'cha.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The difference in the brain chemical structure may NOT actually be gender related, since a guy can be born with a girl's brain.

This may actually be PERSONALITY type differences rather than having ANYTHING to do with gender.

Thus Misinterpretation of the Data due to preconceived notions.

True.

But I always put things in the simplest terms.

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

so nobody can change? even if they can do it?

you some kind of taliban? sex guy to stone peoples?

Nope.

No one can change, it's physically and scientifically impossible for a man to become a women or vice versa.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Excuse me for being naive but how can a man having his penis chopped off, an artificial vagina created from the remaining folds of skin, wearing women's clothing, putting on make up and a fake voice make anyone more stable or relaxed?
I'm sorry but I really just don't understand that.

Are they invalidated by the fact that you can't understand them? Do you leave some wriggle room for being wrong on your own behalf? Or when you say you do not understand them, are you really saying that you disapprove of them?

IRM