Do You Believe In Transsexualism?

reply to post by Death_Kron

they are whatever sex they have the most respective hormone of

If hormones are the deciding factor, then why does a man removes his testicles and takes female hormones not become female?

Therefore transsexualism doesn't exist

What about my brain transplant scenario described above?

Originally posted by LordBucket


So people born hermaphrodites are what exactly? And after they receive surgury to make them one particular gender, that changes nothing?

No. Hermaphrodites are BOTH. Obviously.

When they have surgery to make them "one thing", it's not "trans-sexual". Not in my view at least.

They are a different subject altogether.

They are "de-sexual" After their surgery. They got rid of one of their sexes. If that makes any sense.

Trans-sexual is about people who were once ONE sex, and faked that they are now a different sex through physical mutilation and chemical use.

Please don't mix two topics together like this.

You cannot justify trans-sexualism by bringing up hermaphrodites and using them as an example.

Two different subjects entirely.

And the fact this stuff is so hidden most of the time is very disturbing. It needs to be out in the open.

That's why I posted in this thread, I think it's a crucially important subject to our current crisis of ethics occurring in the world today.

Have you heard of the term "Intersex"? Wikipedia defines it as

"Intersexuality as a term was adopted by medicine during the 20th century, and applied to human beings whose biological sex cannot be classified as clearly male or female." Androgyny is sometimes used to refer to those without gender-specific physical sexual characteristics or sexual preferences or gender identity, or some combination of these.

Or the term "Hermaphrodite". If we are willing to admit that it is Scientifically possible for humans to have a mutation of BOTH sexual Organs and a middle ground between a Male/Female mind, how is it that the idea of a female mind being in a male body or vise versa is not as equally probable?

I cannot see why someone would not be willing to accept this concept other than having an ulterior motive of politics/religion.

your sex is between your ears, not your legs.
and i think most folks are very rigid in their views.
it confuses people if you throw them a curve.
but i dont see why masculine and feminine traits
cant be mixed and matched..(is that metrosexual?)
we all got a bunch of hormones going off..
all the wiring up in the brainpan to contend with..
i try to be content with what i was issued at birth.
balance the yin and the yang of myself.
thats enough to keep me occupied-
y'all feel free be whatever you like..
or whatever you can get away with.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


It seems to me your getting a little defensive because you personally know people who are transsexual.

I haven't called anyone freaky or weird, just stated my inability to understand transsexualism.

Don't take what I'm saying personally but you can't deny that man and women may share traits from the opposite sex; it doesn't mean a man should mutiliate himself and pretend to be a women because he's overly sensitive or feminine.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You don't need to be a Transexual to know that Transsexualism is an unnatural abnormality. Just because somebody's sexual orientation is heterosexual does not mean their opinion on issues relating to abnormalities are invalid.

reply to post by LordBucket


Why doesn't a car become a boat when you remove it's wheels?

It's still a car although one with no wheels.

Is a house still a house when you knock it down and demolish it?

With regards to your brain scenario, well you would have a mans brain in a female body. It wouldn't make that physical female a male, I don't have the science to back that up readily at hand but I'm pretty sure it's the truth.

Originally posted by p51mustang
your sex is between your ears, not your legs.

Wrong.

Your sex is in between your legs.

Your OPINION is in between your ears.

Let's get this straight.

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
Have you heard of the term "Intersex"? Wikipedia defines it as

"Intersexuality as a term was adopted by medicine during the 20th century, and applied to human beings whose biological sex cannot be classified as clearly male or female." Androgyny is sometimes used to refer to those without gender-specific physical sexual characteristics or sexual preferences or gender identity, or some combination of these.

Or the term "Hermaphrodite". If we are willing to admit that it is Scientifically possible for humans to have a mutation of BOTH sexual Organs and a middle ground between a Male/Female mind, how is it that the idea of a female mind being in a male body or vise versa is not as equally probable?

I cannot see why someone would not be willing to accept this concept other than having an ulterior motive of politics/religion.

A mind is very different to a sex orgran.

If your talking me who started this thread then to suggest I have a political or religious reason is ridiculous.

This is a discussion site and as such I started a discussion about something that I was pondering.

reply to post by p51mustang

your sex is between your ears, not your legs.
and i think most folks are very rigid in their views.
it confuses people if you throw them a curve.

Whose ears? The observor, or the observee?

I think you make a good point, but I think you were 180 degrees out of whack on it. Maybe sex is defined between our ears, but not our personal sex. Our personal gender is defined by our DNA. Our view of sex in the outside world is defined between our ears, and we make judgements second by second about what we are seeing.

I have seen many men that I was certain were gay, and just this morning one came to work and told me that his wife had just had a little girl, his third baby! I was CERTAIN that he was gay, and I still think maybe he is bi, but apparently he has a very functional and happy family. GOOD FOR HIM! I was thrilled to hear it. In between my ears a mistake was made.

His gender or sexuality didn't change, but in my mind they did change this morning.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
It seems to me your getting a little defensive because you personally know people who are transsexual.

I always get this way when people start making judgments about people that they know nothing about. Sorry if it bothers you, but I'm frankly sick to death of all the anti-homosexual, anti-Muslim, anti-homeless, anti-transsexual, anti-bi-sexual, anti-abortion, etc., crap that I read by people who are virtually ignorant on the subjects.

I'm not taking it any more personally than I would if people were going on about how black people are too uppity for their own good. It's not about taking something personally. It's about understanding, equality and tolerance of those who are different then ourselves. It pisses me off when people are so judgmental and closed-minded.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by LordBucket

 

Why doesn't a car become a boat when you remove it's wheels?

It's still a car although one with no wheels.

Is a house still a house when you knock it down and demolish it?

With regards to your brain scenario, well you would have a mans brain in a female body. It wouldn't make that physical female a male, I don't have the science to back that up readily at hand but I'm pretty sure it's the truth.

What about a car born with both wheels and a propeller?
Same thing as people born with the mutation of both sex organs.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well I think I'll lose my mind if I write "I'm not intending to cause offence" one more time!

I'm also not nescessarily being judgmental or close-minded, if that was the case then I would of simply created an article name calling transsexual's.

I wrote the thread to listen to peoples views here on ATS about a subject I was wondering about not to name bash people.

Everyone on here is entitled to their opinion and I don't think once I've been insulting towards transsexualism.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Has already been answered above.

2nd line

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
You don't need to be a Transexual to know that Transsexualism is an unnatural abnormality.

I'm not arguing that point. It's natural and normal to be born with organs that mesh with our gender identity. That's how I am, and how most people are. That's normal. But is everyone normal? No. If someone is abnormal, does that mean we don't honor them? Does that mean their feelings aren't real? Does it mean they shouldn't have a right to happiness?

Epilepsy is abnormal. Do you "believe" in epilepsy?
Down's Syndrome is abnormal and unnatural. Do you "believe" in it?

reply to post by getreadyalready

your second paragraph is harder to draw lines with.

That's what we're aiming for. Finding out exactly where the line is. And if we find that lines cannot be drawn with logical consistency, then perhaps our initial premise must be re-examined?

Would a brain transplant change a person's DNA?

I would suppose that DNA would not "change," but that there would be, for example, XX chromosomes in the brain cells, and XY chromosomes in the rest of the body.

I think the brain from a female, put into a males body, would suddenly find herself very attracted to females! I think the body chemistry and DNA would override her experience as a female. I think her brain would adapt, and in a short while, she would be acting like a normal male.

...ok, and supposing that this female brain / male body did as you suggest, and started "acting male," would you describe this being as male or female? Or, supposing that it did not, and continued to behave as female, and loudy expressed annoyance and indignation at the mad scientist who messed with her body? What then? Is it male or female?

I say the DNA defines gender

So what happens if a few years down the road someone comes up with the technology to alter chromosomes? Say...inject some nanites and they alter all the cells? What if they injected you against your will? Is this "born a gender stay a gender" idea solely a matter of technological limitation? Or is there something more to it?


[edit on 3-9-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I always get this way when people start making judgments about people that they know nothing about. Sorry if it bothers you, but I'm frankly sick to death of all the anti-homosexual, anti-Muslim, anti-homeless, anti-transsexual, anti-bi-sexual, anti-abortion, etc., crap that I read by people who are virtually ignorant on the subjects.

BH, you and I disagree a lot, although we agree sometimes as well. But, I have extensive, personal, intimate knowledge in many of these areas. I carry a lot of regrets with me. Yet, my opinion is still vastly different from yours, so don't assume someone with a different opinion is simply uninformed. I am anti-homeless, anti-abortion, anti-sexchange, and very Conservative when it comes to politics. Yet, I know for a fact that nobody has more experience than me in those areas. My high school girlfriend had an abortion, I worked for years frustratingly trying to help homeless people, I have watched homosexual friends die from AIDs.

As you can see from my posts in this thread, it would be easy to crucify my opinions on the basis of sexism or intolerance or any number of things, and I accept that, but do not assume they are uninformed, or that you have more knowledge on the subject than those with different opinions.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I always get this way when people start making judgments about people that they know nothing about.

Sorry if it bothers you, but I'm frankly sick to death of all the anti-homosexual, anti-Muslim, anti-homeless, anti-transsexual, anti-bi-sexual, anti-abortion, etc., crap that I read by people who are virtually ignorant on the subjects.

A lot of us are getting fed up with people who come to the conclusion that if you do not belong to a minority group, your opinions and views on common political and social topics are unwelcome. This is a popular discussion board and there are bound to be people who will not agree with you and your mindset.

I'm not taking it any more personally than I would if people were going on about how black people are too uppity for their own good. It's not about taking something personally. It's about understanding, equality and tolerance of those who are different then ourselves. It pisses me off when people are so judgmental and closed-minded.

Fairness, tolerance and equality for all except those who make up the majority? Remember if it's true equality that means taking the bad as well as the good. And tolerance does not mean changing the definition of a word to make a small segment of the population happy; it is more acknowledging differences and accepting them rather than trying to deny they exist.

[edit on 3/9/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Okay, so if you agree that transsexuality is an abnormality how exactly does it make a transsexual feel better or more at peace with themselves chopping off or modifying their genitals and pretending to be a member of the opposite sex?

A man can never be a woman and a woman can never be a man, no matter what they do to themselves.

Just out of curiosity (although you may have answered and I've missed it) do you believe homosexuality is a abnormality?

Once again, an honest question with no offence intended.

Interesting question to discover on ATS today. Thanks OP.

I do not really believe in transsexualism. A couple years ago I was surprised to find there is a rather large and vocal transsexual community on YouTube. I go watch their videos from time to time, it's very interesting to me.

Personally, I do not think I'm a very stereotypically feminine woman, I don't find I have much in common with most women. Still, I am without a doubt biologically female.

I'm sure these people feel like they do not have the right body/gender, but I think it's caused by oppressive gender stereotypes in our society. I don't think they understand that our gender stereotypes are complete BS.

Here is one particular video that helped me come to this conclusion.


About 9 minutes:

"Physically, I'm doing great. I have barely felt any pain whatsoever, I healed up amazingly well. It's just, emotionally, I'm an absolute wreck. I don't really know why. I don't know what that's about. Umm yeah I don't really know what that's about. I'm not really gonna go into that. I dunno, I don't even wanna talk about it I guess. Just gonna bottle it up... like guys do."

To me, that definitely seems like a woman pretending to be a man... rather than a man who was born a woman and underwent surgery to return to his true form.

Perhaps I don't understand because I'm not one of them, I'm just a woman who thinks our oppressive media-driven gender stereotypes are only useful for marketing purposes.