not sure where to post this...

Originally posted by Agent47
So even the moving photos could be from your Chechnyas, Afghanistans, Sudan or any other place with an American travel advisory.

This is true. However they could also be from Iraq too. It is estimated at around 10,000 civilian casualties in Iraq right? And the government will never tell the truth during war.

Originally posted by justyc
i dont claim to be a film-maker.....

Is that aimed at me?

EDIT: ok, thanks, I wasn't sure.



[edit on 21-6-2004 by Zzub]

"Is that aimed at me?" - no Zzub, it wasnt.

- its just my thoughts - perhaps you could do better with putting yours down instead to be fair and balanced.

Well yes but my images would be considered Jingoist and bigotted by the anti war crowd.

"that war can be justified" - please, justify that war in Iraq for us then as we'd really like to know what it was really about, because it seems every day that every reason given for this war was false.

Well last time I checked the hunt for WMD is still on, and also last time I checked Syria was accused of having some of it from Iraq and then what do you know a truck of VX gas is stopped on the border of Jordan with Syrian terrorists.

Try to not buy into the hype and dig into the news. You might be shocked to find out that the war is actually helping some people.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by Agent47]

Would this be the VX gas that the Americans were selling to Iraq up until 1992, alongside anthrax, botulism & west nile fever? Isn't that the findings of the Senate Comittee on Banking, Housing & Urban affairs? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Nevermind.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by Agent47]

I would imagine it's because they oversee American export policy. But then i suppose they could be lying - www.sundayherald.com...

Damn.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by Agent47]

nyarlathotep - perhaps you should read up some on the effects of depleted uranium shells dropped on iraq by the former president bush & the effects that it caused on unborn children, or ask some of the soldiers who fought in that war & are also suffering alongside their children. They were only exposed to it briefly, they dont have to live with it - do you know what the half-life of depleted uranium is?

Originally posted by justyc
nyarlathotep - perhaps you should read up some on the effects of depleted uranium shells dropped on iraq by the former president bush & the effects that it caused on unborn children, or ask some of the soldiers who fought in that war & are also suffering alongside their children. They were only exposed to it briefly, they dont have to live with it - do you know what the half-life of depleted uranium is?

BTW, DU is 40% less radioactive than natural uranium, which isn't that radioactive at all to begin with. My science teacher in junior high had about a 3 pound piece of natural uranium he used as a paper weight.


Anyway, I did what you said, and read up on the effects of depleted uranium. here is what I found:

This is from the Washington Post, and they said:

Initial WHO analyses in Kosovo, as well as Defense Department and other military studies, have concluded there is no connection between the ammunition and cancer or other health effects, including Gulf War syndrome. A U.N. Environmental Program study released Tuesday showed "no cause for alarm" over radiation from the controversial munitions, but urged monitoring for unknown long-term effects.


An older article from www.washingtonpost.com...

Also, you haven't presented any proof that shows that the babies in your propaganda flick were born in the small timeframe that they would have to be. Meaning these babies would have had to be born if the last few months because the war started just over a year ago.

I like that this is the only point I brought up that you chose to refute. Nothing about the photoshopped upside book or the fact that you used pictures from the freakin Afghan war. I iamgine that was unjustified as well. I suppose that going after Bin Laden is unjustified because GWB OK'd the 9/11 attacks, right.

Here is some more:

But a study conducted by the Royal Society last year concluded that the majority of soldiers and civilians in the last Gulf war were not exposed to levels of depleted uranium likely to cause what is known as heavy-metal poisoning.

More:

What happens if it gets inside you?

Things are different if DU gets into your lungs or bloodstream; then the radioactivity is a factor.

Soldiers breathing in the dust created by a burning depleted uranium tip, for example, may end up with radioactive deposits of the metal in their lungs. The Royal Society study suggested that one in 1,000 soldiers who had had a large intake - eg been in a tank that was attacked with a depleted uranium missile - will die of lung cancer as a direct result of the radioactivity.

This compares to a lifetime risk of fatal lung cancer in the general population of about one in 250 for non-smokers. That means if 1,000 non-smokers are exposed to depleted uranium in heavy doses, five would die of lung cancer - rather than four if none had been exposed.)

Taken from www.guardian.co.uk...

The problem with the DU shells is when they hit their intended target. Upto 70% of the mass of the shell is aerosolized and thats when it could pose a health threat. Did you know that vets from the 91 that were exposed the the vaporized DU shells reported some defects in their offspring. That much is true. However, the defects were minor deformations to the ears and nose and some kidney and bladder problems. Nowhere near the magnitude of those horrible deformed babies you showed.

Fact is there isn't any conclusive reports that show any negative effects of depleted uranium to the degree that you showed.

Funny how you said that I should read up on the effects of DU shells dropped by the former President Bush from the first Gulf War. I thought your propaganda vid was trying to point out the adverse effects of the current war.

Go ahead and continue to skirt the truth and G dub will be in another 4 propably










[edit on 6-21-2004 by nyarlathotep]

Regardless of your opinions, this is Justyc's representation of what this war means to them.

On a personal level, this was obviously time consuming and meant alot to "him". Everybody has their own way of dealing with things.

Justyc chose an artistic composite of images and set them to music. So what if some of the images are from Afganistan or the photo's of the planes are from some other place in time? Who cares.

I appreciate the time you took to put this together. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Great find justyc. A little depressing, yet good song. Usually videos like that have "what a wonderful world" playing in the background. Those pics just go to show how ugly war can get. Last time I checked Pakistan and India have WMDs too, which kills agent47's point about the war being held because of the search for WMDs in Iraq. Everyone knew Rumsfield was full of (c). Those abu-ghraib prison photos just goes to show that american soldiers DO NOT have the right to expectorate on THE GENEVA CODE OF CONDUCT.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by websurfer]

Originally posted by mako0956
Regardless of your opinions, this is Justyc's representation of what this war means to them.

On a personal level, this was obviously time consuming and meant alot to "him". Everybody has their own way of dealing with things.

Justyc chose an artistic composite of images and set them to music. So what if some of the images are from Afganistan or the photo's of the planes are from some other place in time? Who cares.

I appreciate the time you took to put this together. Thank you for sharing this with us.

I took my stance because he posts it here and then proceeds to vilify Bush. Then it should be in the ficiton section and labeled 'Lies to make Bush look bad' and then you would have never even seen me post on the thread.

EDit: spelling

[edit on 6-21-2004 by nyarlathotep]

I hate stuff like that. America sucks

I'm not going to comment on the content, but on the mechanics of it, I think it was well done and great to see someone who feels so strongly about any issue to create something to express their point.

Originally posted by hockey_crazy
I hate stuff like that. America sucks

Thanks for you intelligent input on this thread. It really ads to the intelect on the board. *sarcastic voice*

Mabey someone should make a movie of what it was like in Iraq under Sadams rule.

Maybe we need to stop arguing over the justification for WAR. We are at war. The question should be...Where do we go from here?

Wether the video is propaganda, the images contained in are "Misrepresenting" and or "Doctored", the point should be taken that this is a reality of war. This is the war we do not see everyday on the local/worldly news. The images used, to me, come from "different" conflicts. The point is the same. People die. How do we minimize Colatteral Damage? Well I think it's damn near impossible considering the "Battle" ground today.

My dad who went to Iraq BEFORE the war started, said that we Americans killed thousands of Iraqis... both militants and civilians. He said we didn't care who it was, but if they were in their way, they were gone. He said the killing of just anybody slowed after the war actually started. He was there Nov. 2002 through about Nov. 2003. So he was there for the pre-war and for the fighting. That's the stuff they don't show you on tv. They show it on that Al-Jazeera station though.

nyarlathotep - unfortunately i had to sleep & now go to work so dont have time to go into this right now but perhaps you may find this of interest - www.independent-media.tv...

If you had read what i posted earlier, those pictures were taken after the gulf war & the effects on children born after this war in Iraq are yet to be seen.

Perhaps i shouldn't have used the photo of Bush & the book - i could have instead used footage of him in that classroom showing what a great & decisive leader he is after being told about the 2nd plane & how he rushed into action to defend his country against the enemy (www.cooperativeresearch.net...), but that would have taken much longer than my swf file takes to play.

gotta go to work now