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The NY Mosque Controversy. Summed Up In One Picture.

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posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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One question. Why is everyone overly concerned about a building? Why is it that everytime someone tries to defend protesting the mosque because of 9/11, they ignore the fact that most of the muslims in our country are not extremists. Why care about what happens in another country if its not happening in our country? They also ignore the facts that every religion has had extremists in the past and still have extremists, but of course the news wont ever talk about those because they want the majority to focus on the muslim society. People need to get over 9/11, its in the past. I can compare people who have something against muslims cause of that 1 event to the african americans putting the double standard on white people for slavery, which I personally understand a lot more but dont accept it nontheless.




posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Will check that out. However, the far right has come out the wood work.

I hear the sound of jack boots marching through ATS!



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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There is so much rhetoric going on here. I happen to believe, naively perhaps, Is that this a question of judgement, not legality.
Regardelss of my personal feelings, It is as legal to build a mosque as it is to put up a barber shop as long as all zoning and other legal requirements are met.
I do have to question:
- The date (9/11) chosen to dedicate this mosque. This is such an obvious FU or slap in the face to the country and those who lost friends and family in this horrendous attack.
- Why would a mosque be so quickly approved (new construction, NOT rebuilding an existing structure) when a Greek Orthodox (destroyed on 9/11) cannot even rebuild?

Just a couple of points to ponder....



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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Perhaps some examples of a typical Islamic constitutionalized republic might quell any fears of an unlikely Muslim majority.
How do minority religions typically fare in that type of democracy?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Mutant
 


The mosque won't open on 9/11, that's just another lie spread by Beck & Co. Go somewhere else to get your information, he's a shill



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Mutant
 


But none of this is about 9/11. It's election year and the right needs some ammo. A mosque already existed in the area and no one cared. Why now?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by wakeUpOrDie

When you sister can't walk in certain parts of America without a head scarf.
But I guess if ou are into stoning people and and gay bashing, by all means... bring Sharia law here.



I don't know what country you are from, but those things will never happen in the USA....Because we have seperation of church and state.

If any religion conducts themselves in an oppressive fashion incongruent with our laws or constitution, the US Gov will rain down on them.

All religions welcome...but the US Law FIRST...Ironically it is folks like you that are calling for an undoing of that principle and asking the Gov to start picking and choosing what religions we can follow.

Have you noticed it's been a while since the you heard of a bunch of Christians in the USA getting together and burning the local witch?

But you are repeating what the Quran says..right?

The bible on stonings..
skepticsannotatedbible.com...

You can't be this dim witted when you insist that Sharia law will be instituted in the USA? I doubt you are entirely unaware of our governments view on stonings, lynchings etc

Good old fashioned fear mongering and hate rhetoric. You are welcome to it, freedom of speech and all, but be aware once you repeal freedom of religion...freedom of speech is close behind..

"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson

Also..

"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson




[edit on 3-9-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Actually it was the NY Post who first reported this, not Beck and Co, as much as you'd like that to be the case.

And yes, that date was publicized by various news sources a few weeks ago, but I haven't heard much about it since.

Maybe too much a slap in the face to the familes of 9/11?


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Mutant
 


The mosque won't open on 9/11, that's just another lie spread by Beck & Co. Go somewhere else to get your information, he's a shill



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Mutant
- The date (9/11) chosen to dedicate this mosque. This is such an obvious FU or slap in the face to the country and those who lost friends and family in this horrendous attack.


This is not true, it's an internet rumor that got picked up by a couple of media outlets but has since been debunked.

The building won't even be constructed until sometime in 2012 at the earliest, so the idea that they want to dedicate it on 9/11/11 actually pretty much debunks itself.



- Why would a mosque be so quickly approved (new construction, NOT rebuilding an existing structure) when a Greek Orthodox (destroyed on 9/11) cannot even rebuild?


The St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church situation is much different and more complicated. They want to build on land owned by the Port Authority, and have had trouble making a land swap (they're holding out for tens of millions of dollars in PA money and have some issues with a planned security center underground).

The Park51 project didn't have to get through any of those hurdles for the simple reason that the land was up for sale by a private owner and the project isn't expecting the Port Authority to give them money.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by 23refugee
Perhaps some examples of a typical Islamic constitutionalized republic might quell any fears of an unlikely Muslim majority.
How do minority religions typically fare in that type of democracy?


That might be relevant if we were an Islamic republic...Geez...is that the goal? To behave like an Islamic republic?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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I'm done with this mosque issue. I even have a column in my University's newspaper where I wrote an article that was published. I'm d o n e.

Last thing I have to say is:
Didn't the illuminati bring down those towers?

I think that 9/11 conspiracy should be a pre-requisite for this site. Just my 90cents....wait, I think I just gave too much.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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Notice how those who want to suppress the right of people to protest this new Mosque mainly engage in personal attacks against those they disagree with?

This constant resort to personal attacks completely destroys their credibility.

They are another part of the reason why more and more people are joining in the fight.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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It's NOT a victory mosque, lol. If you seriously believe that you're just plain dumb...or racist...pick if you want


It's also laughable that the people who are against this mosque now go all "buhuuu, how can you be against us protesting and calling us names"...while at the same time they're condemning a whole people. Better practice your "Sieg Heil!" slogans if you really wanna fit in with that crowd


[edit on 3-9-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Firstly I hope you are right and Sharia law never comes here, like it has in Britain in certain places where there is a Muslim majority.


Secondly I could care less what the bible thinks about stonings. Christians don't stone people today, Muslims however do.


The bible on stonings..
skepticsannotatedbible.com...



Lastly, you can deflect, rant and rave all you want. I still haven't see you discredit one point the Geert Wilders made in his speech.

That is because you can't. I know the truth doesn't fit in with your ideology. But the truth as they say is the truth.


Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by wakeUpOrDie

When you sister can't walk in certain parts of America without a head scarf.
But I guess if ou are into stoning people and and gay bashing, by all means... bring Sharia law here.



I don't know what country you are from, but those things will never happen in the USA....Because we have seperation of church and state.

If any religion conducts themselves in an oppressive fashion incongruent with our laws or constitution, the US Gov will rain down on them.

All religions welcome...but the US Law FIRST...Ironically it is folks like you that are calling for an undoing of that principle and aasking the Gov to start picking and choosing what religions we can follow.

Have you noticed it's been a while since the you heard of a bunch of Christians in the USA getting together and burning the local witch?

But you are repeating what the Quran says..right?

The bible on stonings..
skepticsannotatedbible.com...

You can't be this dim witted when you insist that Sharia law will be instituted in the USA? I doubt you are entirely unaware of our governments view on stonings, lynchings etc

Good old fashioned fear mongering and hate rhetoric. You are welcome to it, freedom of speech and all, but be aware once you repeal freedom of religion...freedom of speech is close behind..

"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson

Also..

"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson


[edit on 3-9-2010 by maybereal11]


[edit on 3-9-2010 by wakeUpOrDie]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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You know I must address this whole "sharia" law business that people keep threatening will be the result of leaving Muslims the hell alone.

This is a falsehood. I talking point perpetrated by "extremists" ( see how I can use that word to describe a whole group of people, sounds nasty doesn't it?) in order to continue their agenda. Which I must say is pretty transparent.

I know plenty of Muslims, probably met over a hundred during my years and you know what they all had in common?

They were MODERATES!

The reason they were moderates is because the moderate base IS the majority of ANY sect of society. Whether it's liberals, conservatives, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc..

Furthermore MOST of them did not wish to live under Sharia law. The ones that did want to, did NOT want to subject anybody who was NOT a Muslim to it.

They aren't trying to include you, or take over you my friends. People just want to live in peace. There is absolutely no reason to regard any of this as being dangerous or extremist.

The media has, as always, purposely inflamed this issue, because it is an Election Year and on top of that they are still trying to make America think that Islam is the enemy.

It seems to be working; it's quite sad.

~Keeper



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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And this is what makes it so fun to debate these liberals. I posted a Geert Wilder speech. Though I totally don't agree with his ideology, his speech on Islam was dead on. A warning to America that is right on the money.

And notice how as you said, all they did was attack the messenger, rant and rave and not one person could discredit anything he said in the speech.

So they have nothing left but to resort to personal attacks. CLASSIC


Get use to it, its how liberals debate... debate by name calling instead of persenting cogent pertinent arguments.




Originally posted by poet1b

Notice how those who want to suppress the right of people to protest this new Mosque mainly engage in personal attacks against those they disagree with?

This constant resort to personal attacks completely destroys their credibility.

They are another part of the reason why more and more people are joining in the fight.





posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b

Notice how those who want to suppress the right of people to protest this new Mosque mainly engage in personal attacks against those they disagree with?


Notice how those that are protesting the Mosque view any voices of opposition as "supressors"?

That's the crux of it...Freedom of speech...only for us, not the other guys.

Ditto Freedom of Religion.

That is not freedom...that is tyranny.

Some people just don't understand....you take away those peoples rights...you take away your own.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


No one is attacking you, it's just that you haven't produced any logical reason for the mosque not to be built. If Geller, Beck, Spencer and Co. hadn't made such an issue out of this non-issue, we wouldn't be here discussing it.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by wakeUpOrDie
Firstly I hope you are right and Sharia law never comes here, like it has in Britain in certain places where there is a Muslim majority.



It hasn't come to Britan, that is debunked smack talk.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Not a single person in this thread came up with a logical reason why the Muslims working in NYC's financial district shouldn't have a place of worship.



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