I was torn on the issue until yesterday.

Until yesterday I was torn between 2 factors:
1. Our country was founded upon freedom of religion and not allowing them to
build the mosque could be construed as infringing upon one's right to
practice any religion they want.

2. While I don't completely buy the official story put out by the Gov't about
911, I personally believe it was carried out by muslim extremists and to
build such a mosque so close to ground zero would be a slap in the face
to everyone that has lost a loved one in the tragedy. Yes, I know there
is, and has been a mosque there for some time. So don't throw that one
at me.

What made me change my mind?

Yesterday I was involved in something that brought the local communities together. An I-beam from the World Trade Center is being used in a monument to the fallen here in my neck of the woods. the I-beam was on a trailer being towed by a Police SUV and the percession of police cars, fire trucks and ambulances was about 1/4 mile long. Pretty good for a few small communities banding together.

I was in my volunteer fire department's ladder truck and the streets were lined with immense amounts of people. Many had signs and flags. Many were shedding tears as the percession drove by with the WTC I beam. Many
saluted the entire percession.

When we arrived at our destination (Town hall where the monument will be erected and unveiled on 9/11) there was a small ceremony. A Minister said a few prayers and blessed the i-beam with holy water.

During the ride up, escorting the i-beam and seeing the emotions of your average ordinary everyday US citizen made me realize that the building of a mosque at ground zero is a bad idea and just plain wrong. I can only assume that most of the people gathered to see the i-beam did not have friends or relatives that perished that day...but I may be wrong.

Either way, it was quite an experience and one I will never forget. It was humbling to be in the presence of that i-beam and as I ran my fingers over it, I could almost feel the pain and suffering of all those who perished on 9/11/01. If I told you a tear did not stream down my cheek I would be lying.

I am an Operation Iraqi Freedom Veteran twice over. I left the Marine Corps about 8 months ago. I am now involved in my local volunteer fire department and working as a paid EMT in several local towns.

That picture is perfect.

I came accross it a few days ago and forwarded it to several of my contacts.

Distract, divide and conquer.

Watching the news lately I really have to question if the goal is not to slowly set the groundwork for a scapegoat. Reports from countries all over the world seem to suggest that this is the case...get people fired up in the hopes that they'll eagerly accept ALL Muslims as being the source of all the worlds problems.

Gotta have an enemy.



[edit on 3-9-2010 by {davinci}]

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
After seeing what I saw yesterday, I just can't agree with the building of that mosque.

But they have the right. The Constitutional right. Can you agree with that? Do you support their Constitutional right???

Hey, I'd like to thank you for your service, but if you weren't fighting for our freedom and our way of life, WTF were you doing? If you can come back here and deny someone their freedom because of their religion, where are your priorities?

My understanding is that the community center/mosque is 5 blocks away from GZ. 5 blocks away. Go look out your window and tell me what is happening 5 blocks away from your house. When you get to work, before walking into the building look around and describe the buildings, and the business conducted there, 5 blocks away from your job site.

Ground Zero debris wasn't pushed aside to make room for this community center/mosque, and nobody is denying that 9-11 wasn't horrific and tragic. My youngest brother was killed in a car accident when he was 20 years old. If the driver of the car that killed him wanted to move in 5 blocks away, it wouldn't hurt my heart in the least. I doubt I'd even know he was there.

Can't say a whole lot, except Star and Flag!

That pic sums everything up very nicely. Even among Conservatives and Tea Partiers like me, if we really understand what we stand for, and if we are truly concerned with the welfare of the nation, then we should understand that we are fighting for the right of someone to build a Mosque right there.

People may not realize, but Muslims are very Patriotic inside the US, they have a very positive outlook for our Nation's future, they believe hardwork can get them ahead in our "land of opportunity," and they trust our government even more than the average American, or American Christian does. If you don't believe me, check out this PEW Poll. It was eye opening for me!!

Hope this formats correctly:
edited out table that won't work. The report is 108 page .pdf file with a lot of tables and graphs. Any idea how to get some of the data into a post? I am on my work computer and I don't have any cool software to grab data.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by getreadyalready]

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
I guess if you don't go through something personally it gives you the right to be callous and insensitive.

I lost a baby, I've lost both my parents, I had breast cancer and stared death in the face. Don't tell me I haven't experienced what it takes to be sensitive.

**Where did I say they don't have the right?

That's why I ASKED you if they have the right. I ASKED:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But they have the right. The Constitutional right. Can you agree with that? Do you support their Constitutional right???

The above is a QUESTION. See the question marks?? Is it OK to ASK?

So, your answer is that they DO have the right and you support their right. Is that correct?? (The preceding is a question to clarify your position.)

[edit on 9/3/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
I guess it's cowardly to spend a total of 26 months in Iraq.

No. I said NONE of that. I said that brushing off my questions and telling me you're not going to respond because I'm "insensitive" is cowardly, IMO. Jeez. Go overboard, why don't you?

Where in my post did I say that they do not have the right?
Sure they have the right to do so.

You DIDN'T. That's why I asked. Do you understand how discussion works?

If you care to reread my post, I said it was wrong.

I know. I read it.

Doing something because it's right is way different then doing it because you have the right to.

I agree. But I think you're taking a position contrary to the Constitutional rights of members of this country, and I'm confused how a veteran could take that position. You said you were undecided between the RIGHTS of these people and what was the right thing to do. You've chosen to support "the right thing to do" instead of supporting their Constitutional rights.

That's what I got from your first post and I've been trying to discern whether or not I understand your position correctly. And you've been weaseling around the issue and not answer my direct questions.

Maybe you just don't want to come out and say, "No, I do not support their Constitutional right." OR "YES, I support their Constitutional right, I just don't like what they're doing". But it seems to me that you must take one stand or the other. After all, those are the two positions YOU put in your first post here. And you chose one over the other. Is it any wonder I'm confused?

Great picture, sums it up completely.

The Mosque at Ground Zero "controversy" was simply a distraction.

Notice how the press went rabid about it for about two weeks, now you hardly hear about it in the MSM?

Quite simply, who cares?

It's the MSM drumming up hatred against muslims, in exactly the same way that the Nazi propoganda machine drummed up hatred towards Jews in the 1930's. We all know where that ended.

And for the record, I am neither Muslim, Jewish, or Christian.,

I would agree with the poster who used the phrase "Divide and Conquer".

If you find any sort of "Unification" of the people of America from this debate you are missing the bigger picture.

We are talking about the CONSTITUTION! The GREATEST and MOST IMPORTANT set of rules that our country has to work with.

I am labeled an Atheist (I despise the term) and the ONLY thing that allows me to have my beliefs (or lack thereof) is the fact that there are MULTIPLE religious beliefs in this country.

Once The Muslims go down next it will be the Scientologists, then the Mormons, than the Jehovah Witnesses, then all the others. I support multiple religions because it is the only thing that allows me to reject them all. Without you crazy nuts I would not be allowed to voice my own opinions.

This will be one of the greatest tests our Country will ever face. The face of religious persecution in the year 2010.

Either we all hang together, or we all hang separately. And if you think that YOUR religion will be the last one standing you sure better hope that you are right. Because by the time you find out you are wrong it will be too late for anyone else to stick up for you.

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
I hope that is clear enough for you.

Thank you. I absolutely understand. I think what Fred Phelps does is WRONG, but I support his right to do so 100%. So, I understand your position better than you may think. I just couldn't decipher it from your posts. Perhaps that's my fault, but I was really trying to understand.

I'm sorry if what I had to say was worrying to you, but I do think it's important to get right down to what we think about this and other freedom issues. I see our friends at FOX trying to make this some sort of "American Values" thing, as if the right thing to do should override our rights and it scares me! I don't want to see our servicemen and women casting the Constitution aside for ANYTHING, no matter how emotional.