The NY Mosque Controversy. Summed Up In One Picture.

I don't think that any religious building or business should be at ground zero, only some form of dedication to all the people that died ( not the ones behind the killings of course) even if it's just a statue saying something along the lines of "to all the brave souls who lost their lives " and maybe the date.

reply to post by AliceDiggory


It's not at ground zero. If you bothered researching you would know this already....

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Solomons]

Many people consider the Confederate flag to be a symbol of racism and a time of slavery.

And yet, many Americans in the south have no issues with the sensitivities of displaying a confederate flag in a region that once thrived on slavery.

There is too much Muslim hate. Too much hypocrisy. They have every right to build wherever they get legal approvals to build.

Maybe rather than worrying about Muslims and their radical ways, Christians and Catholics could collectively try to remember their own ways and the their own teachings.

If they did, this would not be an issue.

If you lost someone in the towers, it is still wrong to hold a hatred in your heart for Muslims. It may be understandable, but it is wrong, and a de-evolution of the spirit.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by johnny2127

 

So, what about the mosque that has been there for years?

Where is that on the map?

I think a common misconception is that those that have a problem with this mosque being build are anti-Muslim. Of course, some may be, but most are not. The issue is not the presence of a mosque in general. Its the idea of a new mosque being built that will be presented over seas to many as a victory flag of sorts. I agree that they have every right to build this mosque and community center, but I don't think they should out of sensitivity to those killed and affected in NYC by 9-11. Reasonable or not, it will hurt and upset many many people. Simple Christmas displays are barred by many liberal groups from concern of offending others. Christian symbols and t-shirts are barred from public grounds in many places.

This is not anti-Islam to most, but instead one of two matters:

1) Sensitivity to those killed or hurt in NYC on 9-11 and their families or friends.

And/Or

2) This being used overseas by the extremists as a rallying cry and victory flag.

Would you then also agree that no Catholic churches should be build next to kindergardens and schools given the atrocities some priests committed? I mean, just to protect the sensitivity of those molested children and their parents of course...

[edit on 3-9-2010 by MrXYZ]

To make the situation the same; if a group of Catholic priests molested a bunch of kids from a certain neighborhood or school, and there is a community uproar and victims and their families and friends would be hurt by the building of a new Catholic Cathedral in that neighborhood, then yes I think it is best that they not build that new Cathedral there. Just as with this mosque and community center, they obviously would have the right to, but I don't think they should.

Everything that is legal isn't always right, and everything thats right isn't always legal......

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla

Originally posted by MMPI2

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by MMPI2

 

If you really believe this is a victory mosque, you've been brainwashed by the media

The Koran (018:021) states: "Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them; and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'"

This is not a direct commandment to build on a place of victory, but there is a tradition of building mosques to celebrate or symbolize victory.

The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels.

Close your mouth and open a book once in a while.

Its way better in context!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is were you got your original quote from.....

wiki.answers.com...

The Koran (018:021) states: 'Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them;' and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'

This is not a direct commandment to build on a place of victory, but there is a tradition of building mosques to celebrate or symbolize victory.

"The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels."

Here is the entire thing.....

www.jannah.org...

That should suffice.

Now I wonder why do people AGAINST ISLAM NEED to take their "quotes" OUT OF CONTEXT?

Ignorance PWNED!!!

Alright. This is the FINAL word on the subject.

YOU ARE WRONG.

islam is a cult.

islam is a cult of death.

islam is NOT a religion. It has nothing to do with peace.

islamic cultists hate westerners. They hate peace and freedom.

Nothing has been taken out of context. These statements posted are demonstrably accurate.

YOU ARE WRONG. YOU LOSE THE ARGUMENT. YOU LOSE

reply to post by MMPI2


Opinion is not the final arbiter of debate - fact is.

reply to post by johnny2127


Actually, there are churches and Dioceses still operating, not to mention pastors and priests that have had hundreds of complaints filed against them by children and their families - many of which have been substantiated and criminally prosecuted.

Where is the outrage for this? Where is the clarion call by the ultra-right that it is a danger to our society? No, it's just hushed up and swept under the rug and into the closet. They are men of God after all.

reply to post by MMPI2


You know, Plato has a theory about civilizations which roughly says they go through democracy, chaos, totalitarianism and then back through the cycle again. If your way of thinking ever becomes common place, then it would be a sure sign we are living in chaos.

These remarks you make abuse your right of free speech, especially when they are meant to incite.

reply to post by MMPI2

Alright. This is the FINAL word on the subject.

YOU ARE WRONG.

In your opinion.

islam is a cult.

ALL religions are cults.

islam is a cult of death.
islam is NOT a religion. It has nothing to do with peace.

And I'm sure Jews and Muslims would say the same about Christianity. You do realize that to an Orthodox Jew, a Christian is an infidel as well? And you do realize that Islam has it's roots in Christianity as Christianity has it's roots in Judaism?

islamic cultists hate westerners. They hate peace and freedom.

Actually that's their real beef....they DON'T have peace and freedom thanks to the meddling of of others( Jews / Xtians) in their affairs.

Have you ever spent any REAL time with someone who isn't a western Christian? You are focusing on Fanatics, created mostly by Christians and Jews, rather then the ACTUAL tenets of Islam. There are Fanatics in EVERY religion.

What would you do if you were to wake up one morning and a HUGE undefeatable army had overrun your town, killed your leaders and coveted your resources?

Would you be a terrorist if you fought back anyway that you could?

One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I'm guessing that you also firmly believe in the political left / right hate paradigm.

reply to post by MMPI2


You do realize that capslock isn't cruise control for cool, right?

Look, as much as you claim all Muslims are extremists, you're nothing but a paranoid fear monger...

The large majority of Muslims are moderates, just like most Christians are moderates and only a few are crazy idiotic fundamentalists.

Islam has just as much...or more like, just as little evidence as any other religion out there. Every single religion is based on pure belief and ZERO facts. This is fine, but religious folk have to realize they are not better than people who believe differently because their whole belief system isn't based on facts.

Christianity = Islam = Hinduism = Buddhism = Glugluglu religion of Borneo = mighty spaghetti monster cult

They're ALL based on pure speculation, no matter how hard believers try to claim THEY know the ultimate truth. None of them has any hard evidence and just follow a BELIEF system that isn't based on facts. If that makes you happy, fine...but you have NO right to claim you're "better" than anyone believing differently.



[edit on 4-9-2010 by MrXYZ]

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States — Muslim 1.0%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1%-2%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).

France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — Muslim 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris –car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam – Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s (supposed) to be peace because everybody is a Muslim: we know however that this isnt true is it...?

Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 99.9%
Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing.

reply to post by Soldier of God


So, how much does someone get paid to peddle this inciting nonsense?

I have just gone over your profile and your anti-Islamic stance is clear for all to see. ATS owners need to seriously start filtering this site for paid bloggers.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

So, how much does someone get paid to peddle this inciting nonsense?

I have just gone over your profile and your anti-Islamic stance is clear for all to see. ATS owners need to seriously start filtering this site for paid bloggers.

I wish I was paid to speak the truth. I am just a God fearing American sir.

reply to post by Soldier of God


The only thing you fear is yourself. Not God, not Muslims and thankfully your motives ring clear through your hateful words.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

The only thing you fear is yourself. Not God, not Muslims and thankfully your motives ring clear through your hateful words.

And here's a quote from you sir:
"I have just been talking about this goon Geert. To be honest, if you read or listen to his rhetoric, you'd want to take his head off! The guy is a whack-job with pure right-wing racist genes."
Sounds to me like you're the hater...

reply to post by Soldier of God


Geert was considered racist enough to be banned from the UK for a while and the vast majority of people would keep their distance from his bigoted views.

Anyhow, your game on ATS is clear for all to see. I am not going to waste my time talking to paid bloggers.

Have a good night, I enjoyed our chat.

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

The only thing you fear is yourself. Not God, not Muslims and thankfully your motives ring clear through your hateful words.

And here's a quote from you sir:
"I have just been talking about this goon Geert. To be honest, if you read or listen to his rhetoric, you'd want to take his head off! The guy is a whack-job with pure right-wing racist genes."
Sounds to me like you're the hater...

Geert's a modern-day Nazi...nothing wrong with hating him. It's a bit like hating Hitler...you wouldn't consider that bad either, or would you?

Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Actually, there are churches and Dioceses still operating, not to mention pastors and priests that have had hundreds of complaints filed against them by children and their families - many of which have been substantiated and criminally prosecuted.

Where is the outrage for this? Where is the clarion call by the ultra-right that it is a danger to our society? No, it's just hushed up and swept under the rug and into the closet. They are men of God after all.

Well existing Catholic structures aren't the issue the same way people in NYC don't care about the existing mosque that is close. Again, its not about Islam in general, its the building of a new Mosque that will be used overseas are a victory symbol, and at home will hurt the victims family and friends. Same with the Catholic cathedral question asked of me. If the same thing happened, a new one should not be built, but the existing structures aren't causing the pain and outrage.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

The only thing you fear is yourself. Not God, not Muslims and thankfully your motives ring clear through your hateful words.

Larry you really look like a midget going postal on an elephants leg. Cant agrue the facts attack the fact guy. Yawwwnnn.