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Why He Was Different

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posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 

Thanks, somehow I feel Jesus would have liked that!

He was, after all, a very non-conventional philosopher for His time.
He questioned the establishment - I think this is where He would come closest to the scientific method, if not to any any specific science.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by halfoldman]




posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 

Still in the dark - what did He teach about science?


even if you personally believe Jesus was science fiction, can you please find me one science fact that was not first science fiction from the perspective of humanity?

even if we go in the opposite direction and say Jesus and the bible were science fiction, then Jesus and the bible still leads to discovering science facts. find me one major advancement in science that was not questioned and tested by the religious establishments before it was accepted as science fact.




[edit on 3-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Didn't the church ex-communicate people because they said the Earth was NOT the center of the universe or solar system? The church at other points burned people for witchcraft. How did these things done by the church advance science?
It seems to me it hindered science.

It was only in the last few decades that the church admitted Galileo was right and they (the church) was wrong.


edit for spelling



[edit on 3/9/2010 by Chamberf=6]



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


Didn't the church ex-communicate people because they said the Earth was NOT the center of the universe or solar system?


yes they did, i believe Galileo Galilei and his ideas received a lot of oppression from the authorities in the church (publicly & overtly)



The church at other points burned people for witchcraft. How did these things done by the church advance science?


motivated science to find the truisms so people of the superstitious mindsets might stop burning witches, and others.
and i can't recall Jesus ever burning anyone at the stake. I must concede though, people have hijacked religions and distorted the intentions of their faiths in times past, and imo present as well.



It seems to me it hindered science.


in some cases i agree. the burning of the library of Alexander, ordered by a bishop, is one of the greatest examples i can think of.



It was only in the last few decades that the church admitted Galileo was right and they (the church) was wrong.


publicly. but personally i believe even the church has their secrets.

however viewing the big picture, the burden of proof has time and time again been supplied to combat superstitions, and false information.

i do not see how many scientific advances would have been made without the resistance and demand of proof from organized religions.

even today it is the practice here and now on our ATS, we do the same thing, don't we? we demand proof, we show resistance where evidence is lacking. we don't burn witches at the stake, but some posts do seem to me to be members flaming a post or the post contributor.

what i was suggesting is without the foundation of social engineering organizations (religions, governments, etc) how could science have evolved and what would it have evolved into without resistance and those demanding proof?

again, i'm not supporting the burning of witches, but i also cannot recal any stories of where Jesus set anyone on fire, either. and if we are to accept one book that was banned from being in the bible, written by Jesus's pupil Peter, then we may take into account that the bible and holy books are/were encrypted and encoded.

nobles and scholars, and religious scribes owned literacy for generations, not the commoners.

a cypher is a key to unlocking a code, an encrypted message or messages.
lose cypher could be written as lucifer.

it is well documented that the atbash cypher was implemented and used in the writings of the bible thousands of years ago. a connection with neuro linguistic programming and social engineering (imo).


[edit on 4-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 





Still in the dark - what did He teach about science?



You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? ... You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid... Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


~Matthew 5:13-16~

As a chemist, the understanding of salt as a preservative was essential in the time of Jesus. Salt was an important healing agent as well. Jesus understood both the preservative nature of salt, and the healing agent it was. His metaphorical usage of the word, then, is a scientific, or chemists view of salt in relationship to humanities responsibility to the planet in which we reside. He called for people to act as a the active preservatives of the planet, and healers of all that is wounded. In doing so, he spoke not just as a chemist, but as a physician as well. When he asks how we might restore the taste of salt, his answer becomes...

Light! As a scientist, Jesus understood that light is the source of energy for all living things. As salt he commands us to heal and to preserve, and to ensure we maintain our necessary saltiness, he commands us to be light, that which is the primary source of all energy so that we may do what we must in terms of preserving and healing our planet and each other. In this regard, Jesus was also an ecologist.

Further, light is what guides us when in the dark. As a psychologist, he commands us to be the light and guide those lost in the dark.

Jesus the Healer was well documented within the New Testament.


It happened, while he was in one of the cities, behold, there was a man full of leprosy. When he saw Jesus, he fell on his face, and begged him, saying, "Lord, if you want to, you can make me clean." He stretched out his hand, and touched him, saying, "I want to. Be made clean." Immediately the leprosy left him.


~Luke 5:12-14~


After he had finished speaking in the hearing of the people, he entered into Capernaum. A certain centurion’s servant, who was dear to him, was sick and at the point of death. When he heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and save his servant.



When they came to Jesus, they begged him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy for you to do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built our synagogue for us."



Jesus went with them. When he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, don’t trouble yourself, for I am not worthy for you to come under my roof. Therefore I didn’t even think myself worthy to come to you; but say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I also am a man placed under authority, having under myself soldiers. I tell this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it."



When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude who followed him, "I tell you, I have not found such great faith, no, not in Israel." Those who were sent, returning to the house, found that the servant who had been sick was well.


~Luke 7:1-10~


He rose up from the synagogue, and entered into Simon’s house. Simon’s mother-in-law was afflicted with a great fever, and they begged him for her. He stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her. Immediately she rose up and served them.


~Luke 4:38-39~

I have listed only three as an example, and only the accounts of Luke, but there are countless stories in the New Testament of Jesus the Healer. How did he teach us about the science of healing?


Be not afraid, only believe


~Mark 5:36~


...with God all things are possible.


~Mark 10:27~


If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.


~Mark 9:23~

Can faith act as a causative agent in the healing process?

The Healing Power of Belief

The Spontaneous Healing Power of Belief

Real Life Stories of Cancer, Emotions, and Belief

The Healing Power of Attitudes and Belief

Jesus instructs us not to be afraid:

Fear Causes Cancer

Fear Manifiests in Disease

Was Jesus a scientist? Some would argue yes he was...others would argue differently. I suppose it all comes down to belief.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Be not afraid, only believe


~Mark 5:36~


i believe modern science and the medical field may call that a placebo, possibly.




...with God all things are possible.


~Mark 10:27~


.... with science fiction all things are possible, also. star trek handheld communication devices, and many other technologies seem to have been made possible as well.




If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.


~Mark 9:23~

Can faith act as a causative agent in the healing process?


Jesus instructs us not to be afraid:

Was Jesus a scientist? Some would argue yes he was...others would argue differently. I suppose it all comes down to belief.


"be not afraid" a recurrent catch phrase reportedly said by many "angels".

thanks for weighing in Jean Paul,
John Paul

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 


I had meant to speak to the placebo effect and forgot all about it. Thank you for picking up the slack, John Paul.

~JPZ~



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


the teacher is always a student, and me thinks me learned a thing or two about some stuff from that post.

don't worry, you said enough in that post, and even i sometimes have too many thoughts bouncing around to miss a point i was going to make in a post.

thanks for sharing your thoughts about this. everyday i learn something new on ATS is a day i have not wasted, and time well spent.

thanks JPZ,
ET

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Calender
 



Thank You for this post. I have never understood why most others do not translate this same message from the books of the Bible.

Your story sounds alot like my mothers. After years of hearing and trying to live up to the doctrines and Dogma of many churches.. it was only when she looked within herself and asked for awareness, she picked the bible back up... and read it with new eyes... and came to the same conclusions you have. She never stepped into another church again...and thankfully did not subject me to their cruel doctrines.


IMO The Church establishment holds back the spirit as well as science. It plants seeds of doubt, people dont trust themselves and the answers given to them by the creator.

anyhow... thanks again for this post. I wish everyone could read this! It's easy to understand and has many lessons i believe yehousha meant to convey to mankind.

80)

love & Light

G~



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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Wonderful post OP!
A lot of times I lose sight of these things.
I thank you for helping me SEE again.
Surely the Spirit of the Lord is with you.
God bless.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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Science will be the downfall of human civilization so If Jesus did in fact hinder science as we know it and we than went into the dark ages wouldn't that have helped us humans survive for a few hundred more years?
Also, as far as the virgin Mary goes, the meaning of virgin is different than it was centuries ago.
I believe that it is the ignorant people that take the Christian Bible word for word and literally, which in turns makes them question everything in the Bible. Take in the lessons taught in the NT instead of taking it literally and you will than have a different outlook on Christianity and the Christian Bible.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Intresting thoughts op sounds to me like this jesus practiced the fine art of not existing by way of existing, it's obvious he was a ninja, and like all ninja's you will never see them, but there always around. And by that logic since ninjas are cool, then jesus must of been a pretty cool dude.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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Jesus was of humble origins?
I thought He was of the OT house of David (depending which contradictory lineage one follows). Are you blaspheming OT prophesy?


What was meant in the post was that Jesus was born into a humble, that is a poor family. True he was from the line of David, but obviously not all of David's descendants lived like kings.

But thank you for bringing this point up because it teaches us another invaluable lesson about Jesus' Father, Jehovah God.

When it came time for God to transfer the life-force of his only-begotten son who did he use to raise him? Was it the elite? The religious leaders perhaps? Perhaps the rich and the famous? Perhaps the politically powerful and wealthy? Surely all of this must have some bearing on how the God of the universe views them, right?

Notice who God choose to raise his son while on earth? He choose Mary and Joseph. Joseph was a poor man of meager means. Yet he and his wife were the most favored among all people ever to live, in that God entrusted them with his son. We can learn much from this. God does not view people as humans do. He obviously saw a good heart condition in the couple, and new that Joseph would be a loving and good Father that loved God.

Many times you see people brag about their position in society as if it matters, or how much money they have, or their political power. None of that really matters. Instead of being so busy worrying about what other people think about us, we should be busy thinking about how God views us. He can see the secret person of the heart.

Just as a doctor has medical instruments available to him today to see into a man's literal heart, God can see into the figurative heart and can discern thoughts and intentions that are hidden.


Really? So He never caused a major scene at the temple?


This is referring to two specific times, one near the beginning of Jesus' earthly ministry and one at the end of it. In each case Jesus' zeal for his Father's house consumed him as he saw the religious hypocrites within his Father's very temple extorting money out of the people. The whole system that was set up the buying, the approving of the animal, and then the sacrificing of it at the alter for the people's sin was turned into a big money-making venture.

This teaches us another very important lesson about Jesus' character. Although he is patient and kind with people, he detests religious hypocrisy. Jesus unlike other humans can read the human heart, and thus while we cannot condemn anyone, he had the ability to see into a person's heart and see why they acted the way they did. He did not tolerate religious hypocrisy, or the using of his Father's name to make unjust gain. Just as the prophecy foretold of him: "For sheer zeal for your house has eaten me up." 1

What lesson can we learn from this? While Jesus is a very patient person and loving he does not tolerate the making of a mockery of his Father's name. Thus those in religion, who are hypocrites and make money off the people, and parade around in God's name, should be fearful of the wrath that awaits them at the revealing of Jesus in kingdom power. 2


And what did the Devil tempt Him with? All the earthly kingdoms He already owns?


This is a good question. If Jesus is God then he could not be tempted for we know that James 1:13 says that God cannot be tempted with evil.

How was it possible then that Jesus was tempted and one of those temptations was that he was offered all of the kingdoms of the earth?

Jesus himself said that Satan is the ruler of the world:

"I shall not speak much with you anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me." 3

And Jesus never denied that the kingdoms of the world were Satan's to offer. Rather Jesus rejected the offer. So Satan, the ruler of the world (this is why the world is in the state it is in today) offered the kingdoms to the son of God.

cont...



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Wasn't Napoleon a narcissistic despot who forced the Pope to crown himself emperor and plundered the church?


Napoleon was a lot of things.


Where in the OT is Jesus mentioned as a creator?


Jesus is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible as the Creator of the heavens and the earth. Jesus is God’s son, he is not God.

But we are told that Jesus was used in the creation of all other things. Paul tells us:

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.”4

The firstborn is the very first. In another scripture is is called the only-begotten. That is he is the only directly created creation of God. All other things were created through Jesus and for him.

You asked if any scripture in the Hebrew Scriptures refer to this. There is one place that prophetically speaks of the relationship of Jesus as God’s master worker during creating. In Proverbs 8 speaking of wisdom personified we are told:

“Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water…then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time.” 5


Is He the son of God, or God Himself?


Jesus himself said it:

“Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?” 6


Exactly what about science did He teach that advanced humanity in any way? A simple recipe for antibiotics might have been nice?


This was answered in the OP:


Yet Jesus never drew attention to himself. He, being as intelligent as he was, never talked of his own knowledge


The point was, not that Jesus knew a lot, that although he must have been the greatest scientist to ever walk the earth, and had knowledge beyond even current human understanding of not only the physics of the universe but even of the human body, he did not brag about this knowledge. Nor did he come to earth to reveal such knowledge. Again Jesus himself explained why he descended from the heavenly realms to earth:

“The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.” 7

“Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.” 8



Didn't the church ex-communicate people because they said the Earth was NOT the center of the universe or solar system?


You are correct. The Church, referring to the Roman Catholic Church has been the main instigator of persecution against many people including God’s servants today. But the actions of the Church do not mean the Bible is inaccurate. They were taking literally the words in the Bible that the earth has “four corners.” That is north, south, east, and west. Yet the Bible itself specifically states that the earth is round and hangs upon nothing. The Church obviously did not take into account these scientifically accurate depictions of the earth written many centuries before they were proven:

“He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing.” 10

“There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” 9

cont...



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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thank you for sharing this. anybody with one brain cell working can see you put a lot into writing it.


I’m sure you meant “thinking” where you put writing. It is appreciated that you took the time to say these kind remarks. You appear to be tolerant of others and genuine.


1. Psalms 69:9.
2. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8.
3. John 14:30
4. Colossians 1:15, 16.
5. Proverbs 8:22-30.
6. John 10:36
7. John 14:10
8. John 7:16
9. Isaiah 40:22
10. Job 26:7



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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I thought He was of the OT house of David (depending which contradictory lineage one follows).


It should be brought out the lineage that the person in the above quote is referring to.

Jesus' lineage is pointed out both in Matthew 1:1-16 and in Luke 3:23-38.

The lineage in Matthew follows Jesus' lineage through his mother Mary while the lineage in Luke follows his line through his step-father Joseph. There is no contradiction through the lineages.

Jesus had the legal right as king through his mother to him he was born for she was of the royal line. Joseph's line did not give him the right to become king because Joseph was not Jesus father.

Yet the fact that both Mary and Joseph both traced their lineage back to David made it unquestionable as to his linage. Even his most rabid enemies could not dispute this fact.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Calender

Wasn't Napoleon a narcissistic despot who forced the Pope to crown himself emperor and plundered the church?



No. Napoleon did not force the pope to crown him emperor. he tried to, though. Instead Napoleon forced artists to make paintings and portraits that were representations of him being crowned emperor by the pope, and had them distributed in order to promote his propaganda. It did take a long time for this information to come out, and by the time it did many people in many countries believed the pope had actually crowned Napoleon emperor.

at least that is my understanding of history on this issue, but i wasn't there and i don't know for sure.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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the way i understand it....

if you worship and adore the man Jesus --- that makes you a Pagan & Idolator

The 'Christ'... the annointed one is whom one is supposed to emulate and revere


get your dominoes in order. the man Jesus became the Christ when baptized through John the Baptist... when at that moment he allegedly transformed into a higher spiritual being... who would be the 'King' of a spiritual Kingdom that is not realized in mankinds mind or way of business


after all the 'believers' are called 'Christ'-ians NOT 'Jesus'-ites
so keep all your collective nonsense to a minimum ---Sheeze !

[edit on 4-9-2010 by St Udio]



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Calender
Jesus is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible as the Creator of the heavens and the earth. Jesus is God’s son, he is not God.


Though you wrote a great OP (S&F for you!) I fail to see how you reconcile any of it with this. Christ straight out said that he was God, and the Doctrine of the Trinity says that he is God. The Doctrine of the Trinity is one of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity -- if you don't accept it, you are not a Christian.

Augustine's restatement of the doctrine in seven statements:

1. The Father is God
2. The Son is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God
4. The Father is not the Son
5. The Son is not the Holy Spirit
6. The Holy Spirit is not the Father
7. There is only one God

As Christ stated that he was God, and that he was the reconciler of humanity to the Father, if you deny this doctrine, you effectively repudiate everything that Christ said otherwise, because he was a liar and a blasphemer of the worst sort.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Who was Augustine, but still a man?

What are doctrines, but man made constructs?

Should you ask me, 'Who is my God?' and if I replied 'I AM', would I be wrong and a liar?

Nope. 'I AM' was a name used by our Creator.

For all the confusion and bewilderments many had, it came from our lack of comprehension of our Creator's divine words for us, as well as words from 'divine teachers' sent to teach mankind, made worse by evil and cunning man manipulation for domination and for centuries.

We are a relative junior species in the Universe, which is of billions of years old. There are other beings in Universe as mentioned in many religious texts, we aren't the only ones. There is so much of learning that we need to know, but such knowledge cannot be given if we had not mature fully yet.

As we are, with just our 5 senses, with the limited knowledge that we have, we have already shown how immatured we are with our greed and our destructions on nature and divine human creations. If we are taught more, we may only end up destroying the Universe itself.

The Messiah's mission ultimately was to bring mankind back to our Creator's path, to know our Creator's love, and only from that point can comprehension be gained as we progress on that path, following His words and not misinterpretated words of men from the dictatorial pulpit.

The true Church is not some man made construction of shiny facades and stained glass windows. The true Church is in one's heart, and fellowship is not within the luxurious grounds of some cold stone building, but at any gathering of humans who seek to know our Creator.



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