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Your beliefs and state of mind shape your afterlife - let's have a look at this idea

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posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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I have believed this way for a long time. That the afterlife was sort of a blank slate, an open book that didn't impose itself upon you, rather your thoughts and state of mind ultimately "led" you to your place in the spiritual realms. I always thought it made more sense and was more fair than say, "Accept Christ or burn in hell for eternity."

But one of my friends pointed out to me just how unfair this could be if it was reality, that your thoughts shaped your existence in the spirit realms.

He told me, "What if someone is mentally challenged, or confused, what if they are sure they are going to hell and there's nothing they can do to stop eternal torment?"

I told him he made a really good point and I tried to answer his challenge to this. If a person in that situation of apparent delusion or confusion, truly ended up in hell, that would be incredibly unjust. No less unjust than it would be for people to burn in eternity for not accepting Jesus. Just because someone is confused or happens to look at things from the wrong perspective should definetly NOT send them to hell.

I've never looked at the ideas weak points, i've always been positive, thinking one person may go the a Christian heaven, one may go to a more Buddhist Paradise of sorts in their afterlife, I never really got into the different Hells this sort of idea of mindset could land people in.

So I really had to face up to this, this idea which I know I'm not alone in, is no better and no less evil than the many ideas of salvation and afterlife that are more mainstream.

I answered by saying it doesn't have to be "fair," everything happens for a reason and we must know the good to know the bad and vice versa. My view of hell is not the sort of eternal torture chamber... for me it would be more of a spiritual state of mind or being, anguish, lament. And I don't look at heaven as clouds and trumpets either, it's yet another state of mind of love, grace, peace. I think there are countless spiritual realms out there, environments for which to exist in - I think of the earth we live on and our experience here to be a spiritual realm in itself, in it's own way.

But I was pretty startled at just how damning the idea that our beliefs shape our afterlife could be. It would send just as many people to hell as Christianity, because there are just way too many people out there with a negative mindset and fear of the unknown and death, it would be a disaster and it's not morally superior to the more common views of salvation.




posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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This is just a guess, but I would imagine that if you were mentally challenged, or just suffering from a negative world view, you would just be recycled back into the pool. Better luck next incarnation.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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I always thought it made more sense...


I always thought it made more sense to take the stance that there is no reason to believe in something which lacks evidence.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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Good philosophy OP. I imagine alot of people actually feel the same way, but are sucked into the herde mentality of "THIS IS THE ONE AND ONLY WAY"



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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hmm, wel the whole afterlife thing is still some sort of sceintific blur... some sceintist claime that an afterlife can excist by studying the near death experiences.

I have alway's believed that it is not important what you think, but what you do in life. That is important for your afterlife or reincarnation.

I also think that nothing is eternal... everything has an end and a begin. Also an afterlife has an end.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by css1981
 


It is a scientific blur but you can add to that hypnosis/past life studies done in the field of psychology (where people remember small details of historic periods they could not have known about), people's personal experiences with OOBE's, and other things.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by css1981
 



some sceintist claime that an afterlife can excist by studying the near death experiences.


No legitimate scientists believe this nor is there any legitimate evidence that near-death experiences prove anything besides that certain actions will cause your brain to react in ways that make you think you are doing something you're not.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


You could still ponder the possibility and delve into the idea philosophically, from a safe distance of course.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


Except that consciousness has never been explained in it's entirety by science.

Stop speaking as if you know everything.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by AlphaZero
 


Anything related to these near-death experience claims can be explained by a variety of factors and probably could be replicated through something like going in a centrifuge, where you might experience "out of body" feelings etc. when you pass out.

This does not mean spinning really fast will place you into the spirit world.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


Interesting. So you say OBEs and near death experiences can be brought on by spinning around and around in circles?

I've often felt this in my dreams.....a strange spinning round and round, and next thing I know I begin to levitate off of my bed as if leaving the body.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by The Endtime Warrior
 


Well, I was referring specifically to the training some go through with centrifuges and when "G-LOC", gravity induced loss of consciousness, occurs.

Link

Triggers


It is possible to classify the G-LOC episodes. The G-LOC experience includes specific visual symptoms (tunnel vision through blackout), convulsive activity, memory alterations, dreamlets, and other psychological symptoms. The major, overall G-LOC experience characteristics that have commonality with NDEs are shown below.

Tunnel vision / bright light
Floating
Automatic movement
Autoscopy
Out-of-body experience
Not wanting to be disturbed
Paralysis
Vivid dreamlets / beautiful places
a. Euphoria
b. Dissociation
Pleasurable
Psychologic state alteration
Friends / family inclusion
Prior memories / thoughts inclusion
Very memorable (when remembered)
Confabulation
Strong urge to understand



Altered brain states, whether resulting from G-LOC or the NDE, can produce vivid experiences to those who have them. Some differences between G-LOC and the NDE would be expected, if for no other reasons than the circumstances that cause them and the magnitude of the insults to the nervous system, which are different. The G-LOC syndrome symptoms are the normal responses of completely healthy individuals to relatively minimal periods of cephalic nervous system ischemia. If there are unique characteristics associated with the NDE, then their isolation would appear to be facilitated by focusing on what the real differences are in the individuals, their physical states, the environmental situation, the type of insult, and the symptomology between G-LOC and the NDE.

Loss-of-consciousness episodes of all types appear to have an explainable physiologic basis. They are, therefore, open for scientific investigation. At least the loss of consciousness aspect of the NDE, therefore, has a potentially explainable and experimentally explorable basis. It would be odd if the symptoms associated with loss and recovery of consciousness were not part of the NDE. The fact that many of the NDE symptoms are very similar to those resulting from loss and recovery of consciousness suggests that individuals who report their NDEs have provided accurate symptom descriptions. This includes those symptoms beyond the scope of G-LOC experimentation, which are unique to the NDE.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


thanks for the links and explanation. truthfully i have felt this weird feeling of spinning round and round making me very dizzy, and then I'll enter a lucid dream/sleep paralysis state and i'll have an OBE such as levitation. it is a rather odd feeling! I have actually been a life long sufferer of sleep paralysis so I guess no surprise that these things happen.

[edit on 9/2/2010 by The Endtime Warrior]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


I'm not sure why you linked to near-death.com if you're trying to disprove the existence of an afterlife. That website advocates the existence of a "soul" that is separate from the brain; just read all the reports on there. They even cite their sources.

Sure spinning around in centrifuge could induce the same types of effects in some (many) cases. But the list of effects it has in common with NDEs still doesn't include all the effects that some people may actually experience.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by AlphaZero]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 07:18 AM
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I think looking at it from a buddhist point of view ; there is not a real afterlife... everything has and end, but the end is alway's a new begin; a new life

as a buddhist every time you die you will be reborn again in one of the six 'spheres' of the Samsara. You will be reborn unless you will find 'nirvana' ( enlightning ) When you die in a enlightning state then it becomes interresting... It is not a heaven, just like the heaven in christianity.

Afcourse this is al about believing... I can't back it up with any evidence...



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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this 'afterlife' notion has been explained as 'sleep'...

and by this my brain tells me that the period of death is just like being in a dream state while asleep.

to wit: there are sometimes nightmares, other times pleasant utopian settings... but 'you' are not alive or active ...you are asleep...
and such is the notion of an afterlife...'You' are not transported into
another place or dimension or 'go' to any heaven/hell...
you are a product of your life/emotions/acts/fantasmic ideas

and create your own envelope or spirit vessel, just as you fashion your own dreams... so your heaven or hell 'afterlife' is a self made thing
or dream state.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by St Udio]



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by AlphaZero
 


I wasn't "disproving" anything as there is no evidence to "disprove" with near-death experiences etc, I was only showing the experiences that people experiences in a NDE can be replicated by putting the brain in different situations. I don't care what the site believes, what I linked showed that NDE's can be reproduced and explained rationally.

To me, if it can be replicated and explained rationally, there is no need to go beyond that and say something like, well it COULD be you coming in contact with the 17th dimension that Billy Mays operates, and you could not disprove it either, as I have no evidence except for saying things like "I believe it is this..." or something like "I know what I saw" etc while you parade around with unreasonable statements masquerading as facts.


But the list of effects it has in common with NDEs still doesn't include all the effects that some people may actually experience.


Indeed, it even says that in the pages I linked. It also says that different factors would obviously lead to different results.

The fact still remains, if the symptoms of these experiences are largely the same for everyone and can be explained without resorting to "science doesn't know" "God did it" etc, I think it's fair to say it's not supernatural.

An example; If someone randomly guessing specific preselected numbers between 1-10 is competing against a psychic doing the same thing and the results are basically the same, I think it's a fair judgment to say the psychic is randomly guessing

I'm curious though, what experience isn't included / can't be explained?



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by TheBandit795
 



I don't care what the site believes, what I linked showed that NDE's can be reproduced and explained rationally.


Again, I don't care what anecdotal stories the site has, I only linked it because it listed various events which caused the same symptoms as a NDE. Obviously as a NDE site, it's going to have some other bits of information that are rather one sided.

And again, if it can be replicated and explained without resorting to basically saying it's supernatural and we don't know, then it's a safe bet to say it's your brain causing the symptoms.

As for the link that contains, in my opinion, already questionable, stories:

False Memory



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


Wait.
The bandit listed verifiable events that were able to be seen while out of body, but you disregard that as merely being anecdotal? The same anecdotal that sends people to jail?
Sure, science can replicate some of the symptoms of an NDE, hell, when I get the flu it can replicate sympoms of schizophrenia, that doesn't mean the replication is the actual experience or event. You can't just cherry pick pieces of evidence as it suits you and call it a day.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by xEphon]



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