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Political War

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posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:07 PM
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I continually see people harping on the current administration. I also have seen people harp on the previous administration.

One thing that baffles me is the short memory and lack of research people have when it comes to discussing our current political atmosphere.

One thing I do know is that the Bush family has been involved in international finances for a few generations if not more.

One thing I do know is that the Bush family has also been involved with the intelligence community and 'higher' political offices for decades.

One thing I do know is that the Bush family bought a sizable chunk of land in Paraguay...during George W. Bush's administration (conflict of interest anyone?)...

The point of this thread is not to defend Obama. While I do believe the man to be quite intelligent I also believe that he inherited a 'subtle' battlefield that we on ATS rarely discuss because we are in the midst of reactionary behaviour. We react to the economy, to the ideology that isn't realized yesterday...per our reactionary mindsets.

The corporate world has infiltrated our political system and that world has more to do with what legislation gets passed (along with some factional agendas) then a figurehead can. Yes, I believe Obama to be a figurehead but so was Bush Jr...save for the fact that Bush Jr. is directly related and associated with generations/decades of behind the scenes manipulations.

I believe, that if we are going to get anywhere as a discussion forum than we have to stop blaming the current administration and view the political battlefield for what it is...a mish mash of conflicting agendas for their gain and perpetuation.

If the ideology they spew means anything to us then we are going to have to stop listening to them and focus on what has happened to ascertain why current events are occurring...period end of story. Political agenda's mean nothing if the legislation that gets passed continually tightens the choke hold they have on our finances, our beliefs and our recreations.

In short...follow the money, not the political agenda...the rabbit hole is much deeper than a 24 month political campaign...

Edit to Add - A Big Thank You To Ian McLean.

[edit on Thu, 02 Sep 2010 16:46:05 -0500 by MemoryShock]




posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Thank you for being honest and courageous enough to stand up and speak the truth in the face of adversity.

I don't support Obama because he is a corporate pig, ever check where he got his campaign cash from? Ever wonder who he is catering to now? Conflict of interest I would say.

But that is our current political climate in America, almost every politician is involved in a conflict of interest. They are supposed to serve us but must receive corporate campaign donations which requires them to obey the ones who gave them the money. So it's a conflict of interest.

Until we get money out of politics we will never know a real government, real politicians or a real political climate.

[edit on 9/2/2010 by Misoir]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Very good points you bring up here...

Although I have never been a fan of the current administration, I was also NOT a fan of either Bush administration, nor the Clinton administration.


Reading things beyond what was normal for a kid even in the 60's and 70's gave me insight into political and technological intrigue and because of that I was always looking for hidden things and hidden information..

The Bush's espoused conservative things, but in back rooms they performed progressive things.

Bottom line is, many if not all recent past administrations have abandoned the constitution and bill of rights so they could cater to their corporate constituants and donors and elite think tanks, but crafting it in a way to look acceptable to the America people..

And doing it still in back rooms hidden from public view as if they know they are doing something wrong..."A guilty party flees when no one persues" type of thing..

Personally I think that allowing Bush Sr to be president when he was and had been the head of the CIA was Americas biggest mistake in all of it's history.

They keep on espousing one thing while doing another thing and carefully crafting it to be accepted. Just like a spy agency would find natural to do..

The current administration seems to be much more sloppy and open to the same old routine..

The only thing holding them all together is the "right vs left" game that all of the PTB keep feeding the public daily.

The government currently seems to have as it's main focus the looking for ways to get even more power away from the people, and into the hands of government. So far they are winning big.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
Until we get money out of politics we will never know a real government, real politicians or a real political climate.


And that is my point.

It seems like many here are still lending credence to the mainstream media's propagation of our political system...which is simply inaccurate.

There were decades prior to the internet where political and corporate representatives, large and small, had a 'cloak of secrecy' due to the inability of the populace to communicate.

We have that capacity to communicate now and instead of actually researching the history, we are stuck in a reactionary mindset to what is being presented now...

We are behind their schedule and everything we do now is what inflects their media campaign...let them spout off, put them on ignore and let's look at the larger picture...we are capable of that and have succeeded to some extent in the past here on ATS...

Take their voice away so ours can be heard...



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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Politicians don't attempt to represent, they attempt to create reality:


In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
Source

The alternatives are: 1) find an acknowledged side to believe in, and embrace the offered world-view, 2) enthusiastically analyze the dichotomies that are presented, and be eternally bogged-down in contrived ever-changing detail, or 3) ignore the process all together, and become disenfranchised.

There's no viable fourth alternative. Try and introduce one and you'll immediately be challenged with "well what's your stance on illegal immigration?" and "do you think abortion should be legal?". You can't be on the public stage without acknowledging as real the illusory planks from which that stage is built.

Politics is a tar-baby. Only the anarchists really understand this and offer a logically consistent direction. But they have a solution, only a rejection, which isn't quite a way forward.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Ian McLean
There's no viable fourth alternative. Try and introduce one and you'll immediately be challenged with "well what's your stance on illegal immigration?" and "do you think abortion should be legal?". You can't be on the public stage without acknowledging as real the illusory planks from which that stage is built.


I tentatively disagree with you on this point. Social evolution takes time...especially when their are social protocols and routines already in place.

But there are some social trends that decry 'establishment ingrained' ideals...ideals which are in place for dissociative control and civilly economic perpetuation.

Jails are filled with victimless crimes, there is a relevant percentage of people who are over the Gay Marriage debate/Mosque consideration because it/they are non issues...

Communication is key and once illusory dichotomies are identified as exactly that then there is a chance to get out of the "lesser of two evils' mindset opinion...especially when the options being presented societally are being propagated by social research done by our intelligence communities from decades ago.

The social paradigm has changed and this is a unique period in history where the populace can play catch up on a relevant scale...



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Sorry I see a long term plan in action that the sheep don't get,Obama is a groomed 'suicide' presidency,although he's unaware of this,his role is to change things so much that people will rush for the saviour who'll be wrapped in the flag carrying a bible who will establish a Nazi state with full public support.The day to day stuff on tv is watch the monkey crap,theres always been a bigger long term plan,the trick is to get the masses to freely go along with it.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by anglodemonicmatrix
theres always been a bigger long term plan,the trick is to get the masses to freely go along with it.


Precisely my point...I have no delusions that in many circles I am considered a sheeple...and if we see the 'trick' than why just let it fly without voicing up?

Even if it means posting an obligatory research point that happens to be fact and happens to contradict the mainstream media than at least we are pushing ahead a step beyond what may have been initially envisioned.

I am merely stating that we are better served by ourselves to look at the history rather than the connotative ideology propagated now.

That is 'our trick'...because I don't care about the Mosque...or Obama's diametrically opposed administration to Bushs'...They understand it is slow going to implement...so why don't we?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


I say all our presidents from the last 40 years have essentially been catering to the corporations of this country, but I would go further to argue that the american people have supported this. We cannot complain about either administration or the ones previously and yet at the same time support the ability of corporations to spend unlimited amounts lobbying candidates, to turn the other way when they shift our jobs abroad and then support them with tax cuts.

We are in a constant political war, but we as a people are part to blame.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Well, 'political war' implies that there are adversaries ...

But the adversarial position is a contrivance, a pretension, a ruse if you will to pit the populace in adversarial position against each other on the basis of marketed ideologies. So it is more of a pretend war but with real casualties.

This of course could be avoided if being ideologically dominant became moot, as in a no party system ... until that happens, and it won't be soonish, most of us will play our little soldier roles fighting a political war that our generals have manufactured to distract us and control us. I wonder if they point and giggle watching us chase our tails while they sip on virgins' blood ... I assume that they do.


[edit on 2 Sep 2010 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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How can the people be to blame when they are intentionally fed information that encourages their reaction rather than their introspection...from people who have considered how to influence opinion?

Conspiracy? Yeah...the biggest. And it is so interwined within region, religion, finance et cetera that, prior to the internet, there really was no possible way for people to collaborate on what was being done to them...

Let's not even focus on the fact that education receives much less funding and intellectual resources than military...

No...the people are not to blame but we have a chance to 'think tank' now and we may as well...they have for decades...



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
But there are some social trends that decry 'establishment ingrained' ideals...ideals which are in place for dissociative control and civilly economic perpetuation.

Like what? I don't see any, really. All the 'counterculture trends' I've seen are manufactured pap. Free-thinking idealism seems to exist only on the fringes and academia, and is never taken seriously or accurately represented in the mainstream.


...there is a relevant percentage of people who are over the Gay Marriage debate/Mosque consideration because it/they are non issues...

I would disagree with the word 'relevant' there. Relevant to you and me, yes, but not to the inertia of the political machine...


Communication is key and once illusory dichotomies are identified as exactly that then there is a chance to get out of the "lesser of two evils' mindset opinion...especially when the options being presented societally are being propagated by social research done by our intelligence communities from decades ago.

Yes yes yes. But communication exists within context. The referents we use to establish common ground. And sadly, political and commercial rhetoric is littering that common ground so badly that conducting any honest political discussion is like wading through a trash-heap.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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[edit on 2-9-2010 by Skyfloating]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Well, 'political war' implies that there are adversaries ...


Erm...are there not factions, politically and socially on almost every issue propagated...and some that are not?

I would be hard pressed to find a political issue that was unanimous...



But the adversarial position is a contrivance, a pretension, a ruse if you will to pit the populace in adversarial position against each other on the basis of marketed ideologies. So it is more of a pretend war but with real casualties.


Exactly...if the populace is distracted by social issues than the corporate movers are satiated...was that your point?



This of course could be avoided if being ideologically dominant became moot, as in a no party system ... until that happens, and it won't be soonish, most of us will play our little soldier roles fighting a political war that our generals have manufactured to distract us and control us. I wonder if they point and giggle watching us chase our tails while they sip on virgins' blood ... I assume that they do.



It won't be soonish but it has to start somewhere...and I am certainly not taking credit for that (complicated attention there). And if they point and giggle...well...then lol...



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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Irrelevant...No Worries Sky...

[edit on Thu, 02 Sep 2010 16:46:46 -0500 by MemoryShock]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:42 PM
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Hint:

Google cache

The "cache:" prefix is also fun for seeing what prompted mod-edits...



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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I believe the political war is just a cover up.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's obvious the drug war is much more important...LOOK AT MEXICO(our next door neighbor)!! Lives are being ruined and a lot of money is to gain for those behind the curtains, while wasting our tax dollars...

EDIT::
O I agree with a lot of that said in your post.. But how far ,in terms of p-residents, have they been puppets? Just a thought you touched lightly on it.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by matt4GA]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


There is no mish mash, there is one agenda being relentlessly pursued by the vicious behind the scenes Cabal.

The front guys - Bush/Obama are obeying and relentlessly pursuing ONE agenda.

That is where we need to focus....and act.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


I like the idea of the 'think tank'...that's exactly what people need to start doing.

Thanks for the thread, it's very interesting.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by Ian McLean
Like what? I don't see any, really. All the 'counterculture trends' I've seen are manufactured pap. Free-thinking idealism seems to exist only on the fringes and academia, and is never taken seriously or accurately represented in the mainstream.


Not quite just the fringe...one has to remember that social change is generational, necessarily in our world (especially true in the past) because of how the previous generation was raised. It's simple to state that one who is born without global communication is going to likely hold to the mores and values of the immediate environment/interaction.

But here we have global communication.

California is, in my opinion, less than a decade to legalizing pot...not because there is a sudden change of heart from our past generation authorities...but because it is such a pervasive action in society with little evidence to support the past propaganda that the social push is forcing it.

Many comment threads I visit off of ATS (to observe) decry the propagated media (granted this is more of a subjective observation but while the trend I have noticed is still a small percentage of the population, it is there and more than it was a decade ago before people knew others thought like they did)...

And let's not forget 4chan...a collective sigh for sure...but they are huge and have done some major actions.

Do those actions matter?

Not really in an immediate sense.

But it does support the idea that social change is generational. There are a lot of people that can't even be quantified who have been exposed to a large amount of information that wasn't possible a decade or two ago. And with this exposure comes less of an inclination to accept the reality that is drawn out for us by those who knew what they were doing in the intelligence community several decades ago (when they were designing this global communications structure)...



I would disagree with the word 'relevant' there. Relevant to you and me, yes, but not to the inertia of the political machine...


Relevant to them as well. Before, anyone who didn't care would just go about their daily routine. Now we have people burning Mosques in Tennessee...which is an example of a negative aspect of global communication...

But still relevant. The political manipulations and emotive ideologies designed to gain voters is starting to backlash in my opinion and I think it is time to stop bickering about this and that in the short term and start looking at the bigger picture...in an effort to not only by pass the manipulations but to alleviate negative social reactions...



And sadly, political and commercial rhetoric is littering that common ground so badly that conducting any honest political discussion is like wading through a trash-heap.


You have no argument from me there...

Edit for clarification.

[edit on Fri, 03 Sep 2010 00:49:05 -0500 by MemoryShock]



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