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Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

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posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by oniongrass

Originally posted by TarzanBeta ...

I'm thinking that most scientists won't be so easily fooled but will fear saying much about this kind of thing due to the fact that speaking against the purple monkey could get them ridiculed at the least.

I can tell you that is not correct. A physical scientist would be expected to know that both gravity and electrical attraction have similar functional forms, and this similarity can be used in various analogies between electric circuits and physical systems. It's very standard.

That doesn't mean they are the same thing, but no I'd say there is no decent physical scientist who has not played with the idea in his mind and thought about the similarities and differences and implications thereof.


No, no, you are right, but my point was that no scientist would come out and say that gravity didn't create the universe for fear of reprimand.

I did not mean to say that scientists would be so foolish as you believed I was saying. Sorry.




posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by oniongrass
 


yep very similar....which explains why ac current travels much further in a transmission line....added magnetic help from 90 degrees in the wire replenishes the voltage or current that is felt...the wire is the bar magnet



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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God is EVERYTHING there is, and EVERYTHING there ever will be...

...and that includes gravity!

God is so graceful that he is able to construct the entire universe in such a way that it looks automatic and spontaneous to humans.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by illumin8ed
God is so graceful that he is able to construct the entire universe in such a way that it looks automatic and spontaneous to humans.


how do you know god is male? how do you know god even exists?
edit to add: if god is everything then satan is god, and gods will! also god must have created hell! very loving god that is


[edit on 2-9-2010 by enduser]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by GBP/JPY
reply to post by oniongrass
 


yep very similar....which explains why ac current travels much further in a transmission line....added magnetic help from 90 degrees in the wire replenishes the voltage or current that is felt...the wire is the bar magnet


That's not why. AC could be transformed more easily than DC. Besides resistive losses, inductive and capacitive losses factor in. However, with high-voltage, direct-currect transmission, besides lower corona losses than AC, losses are limited to resistive, thus increasing grid efficiency. IGBT's have made it more econonical to employ HVDC over HVAC.

HVDC can also use a single suspended line instead of three-phases.

I'm sure someone could explain it better but at falsities should be challenged.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
Saying the universe was created by gravity, is the same as saying the universe was created by god. Both are unknown in there total scope and ultimately god, gravity, universe, are the same difference. The rest is just what peoples call there world, there language, all saying the same thing in different languages, from english to math to binary, to dog to frog to tree. Yes all of these create noise on different levels, and they all think they are important, and they are...just not that important. Everything simply is, disprove that, and you might learn something.


You can measure Gravity despite not knowing it's true nature. You can gauge it's effect on various objects, you can use it to influence devices in space, and you can base the tides of the oceans on it.

You can drop a rock, and know gravity exists.

God?

I don't think there is any measurable method other than fervent zealousness by which to gauge god.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by illumin8ed
God is EVERYTHING there is, and EVERYTHING there ever will be...

...and that includes gravity!

God is so graceful that he is able to construct the entire universe in such a way that it looks automatic and spontaneous to humans.


Thanks! I do appreciate a kind word now and again.

I will grant you a life to the age of 87. Don't tell anyone I told you.




posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by badw0lf

I don't think there is any measurable method other than fervent zealousness by which to gauge god.

I know right lol. The more rabid the followers the tougher he must be!



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by enduser

Originally posted by illumin8ed
God is so graceful that he is able to construct the entire universe in such a way that it looks automatic and spontaneous to humans.


how do you know god is male?


God isn't male or female. I just used that word because it's common and easier. Don't argue semantics.


Originally posted by enduser
how do you know god even exists?


...because I can see God right in front of me.

I can touch God, smell God, hear God, and see God. LIFE, this Universe, ALL that is, is God's body. Since Life exists, and Life is God, then God exists.

I am a part of God, and so are you.


Originally posted by enduser
edit to add: if god is everything then satan is god, and gods will! also god must have created hell! very loving god that is



I never mentioned anything about the beliefs of Satan or Hell. Satan and Hell is irrelevant, and does NOT effect the validness of the existence of God.

Don't get beliefs mixed with facts of God.

The Universe is formerly known as "God". To deny the existence of "God" is to deny the existence of the Universe.


reply to post by badw0lf
 


You are not God, you are just a part of God.


[edit on 2-9-2010 by illumin8ed]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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What I find funny is.... that a human will look at his own brain and see an array of matter and energy working in ways which they can't even explain, yet they believe they themselves exist.

Then they look at the Universe and see an array of matter and energy working in ways which they can't even explain, yet they deny the existence of a greater entity.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by illumin8ed]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by illumin8ed
 


honestly a religious person has only his or her faith to force on others, why not show us proof of god, actual hard evidence? saying that everything is god does not prove anything! i believe in science, not dogma written many many moons ago! science can be tested by all, what you suggest is not testable nor provable! you can claim anything but without proof all you have is an opinion!

basically, without faith you have no god, if god existed we would ALL know about it and there would be no doubt in any ones mind! if god existed there would be only one religion, no? it is very easy to make claims without proof and all you religious people do is claim that your opinion is fact! facts are universal, not subjective!

as for satan and hell, well it is relevant because that is what a lot of religions teach! do you know the history of satan in regards to how man has perceived 'him' over the centuries? if god created everything as you suggest then god created the potential for all the ills, the suffering, in fact, it must be gods will that life is about suffering because youre guaranteed to feel a lot of physical and emotional pain throughout your life! what purpose does that serve in all honesty? seems to me that if there is a god then it is not at all loving!

btw i believe that there is more to the universe than meets the eye however, i fail to believe in the god of the bible! actually, seeing as you have god in front of you, please ask how god was created? yeah yeah i know, we dont need to know, easy cop out for you religious folk



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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In the beginning, there was gravity. Which exploded.

Makes more sense than nothing exploding so I guess that's cool.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Parallex
someone who practices 'faith' or a religion is empirically stunted and incapable of
impartial modern science.


This is a foolish and incorrect prejudicial view. Unless one is an extremist, there is no fundamental incompatibility between modern science and faith.


Originally posted by metalholic
gravity is the magnetic pull between 2 objects objects being any form of anything!


Why do you believe that gravity is magnetism? They are two of the four fundamental interactions of nature, so they're hardly the same thing.


i guess you never heard of the coral castle in florida...well that is why u dont know what i'm talking about!



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Science and religion are not at odds, science is just to younger to understand.

Actually science can tell us alot. How should we live? Well looking at the ecosystem, economy, how our brains react to certain stresses behaviors etc we can form the best possible way to live. Using science we can actually say tha we shouldnt live stealing from each other cause it lowers all our life expetancies...

now there are many sciences such as psychology that still needs to be fully formed before we could really begin to form a full theory of life.

Quantum mechainics might actually show us why we are here. No knowalge is ever lost (unless you account for Steven Hawkings Knowlage Paradox, which he "disproved" himself and last i heard was working on the "math" to explain it. This theory of his probaby comes from that said work....



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by illumin8ed
 


If everything is God, does that make God irrelevant? Does he affect the universe through his own sort of will, or is he just some type of force?

If the world is the way it is due to God's will, then he has no reason to interfere, because everything must go according to his plan, correct? That would mean that God is irrelevant as well, since he has no effect beyond creation.

Or, do you see God as a more "human" force, with his own likes/dislikes/moral code, and the ability to enforce it or disregard it when he wishes?


reply to post by adjensen
 



Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Parallex
someone who practices 'faith' or a religion is empirically stunted and incapable of
impartial modern science.


This is a foolish and incorrect prejudicial view. Unless one is an extremist, there is no fundamental incompatibility between modern science and faith.


Saying that faith in God doesn't interfere with scientific endeavor is extremely illogical. Do you think that an evolutionary scientist wouldn't be conflicted in his search if he held faith in the Christian Bible's God, which stresses creation?

[edit on 9/2/2010 by EsSeeEye]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by enduser
reply to post by illumin8ed
 


honestly a religious person has only his or her faith to force on others, why not show us proof of god, actual hard evidence?



You want me to prove the Universe exists? Can you not see it yourself? Can you not experience it yourself? Are you dead?



Originally posted by enduser
saying that everything is god does not prove anything!


In order to prove God exist, you must define God. My definition for God is the Universe, and the Universe does in fact exist. So God exists.

The Universe is proof.


Originally posted by enduser
i believe in science, not dogma written many many moons ago!


I believe in science too. Science is the study of God's body.

Believe it or not, a lot of science is dogma written many many moons ago!

I am of the type of person who doesn't need books to understand science or God. I can see, touch, smell, hear, and taste science. I can also see, touch, smell, hear, and taste that of which is God.

I don't need a book to understand that ALL is ONE entity. ALL combined together is God's body. The Universe is God.


Originally posted by enduser
science can be tested by all, what you suggest is not testable nor provable! you can claim anything but without proof all you have is an opinion!


You are so confused it's hilarious to me.

The Universe is known as God. God is a name for the Universe. The existence of the Universe is proof of God.

Your problem is, you judged me and my beliefs. You are accusing me of believing all the dogma you read in books that explain what God is, and YOUR definition of God is the definition you received from within those books of dogma.

Believe it or not, but people have different definitions and explanations of God.

Here is a few of my definitions of God.

God is;

-The creator of all.
-Omnipresent
-Omnipotent

The Universe is;

-"The universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists, including all physical matter and energy, the planets, stars, galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, although this usage may differ with the context."

The Universe (a.k.a. God), which is all matter and energy (including gravity), is responsible for creating the Universe (according to Stephen Hawking), and creating all life.

Since the Universe (a.k.a. God) is everything that exists, then technically the Universe (a.k.a. God) is omnipresent!

Since the Universe (a.k.a. God) is all energy that exists, then technically the Universe (a.k.a. God) as a whole, is omnipotent!

The Universe meets all my definitions of God, because it is God's body.

...to be continued.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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I haven't read all the thread yet.. only half the front page.. yeah I know slack of me.


While I don't understand String Theory enough yet, it is closer to an explanation for what we have observed so far... and it is a Theory until proved or disproved.

My perception on the "creation" of Our universe is simple and taken from an experience I had during meditation.. okay so it came out of left field/mental illness for you more materialist members. Here it is.....

Our universe is named incorrectly. It is not Uni (One), it is only one of Many billions of other Bubbleverses.

When two such bubbleverses touch.. which must happen at times... the energy of their touch is Massive. It creates a Big Bang scenario that "Births" a new bubbleverse into existence.. in the same way that man and women coming together can bring another human into existence.

Each bubbleverse is an Aware Energy. It MUST be so for us to have Awareness in our universe since we are only portions of this universe.. made from it and of it.

Each bubbleverse grows and learns about Itself, again just as babies do. And it does this by Diversifying Itself into smaller portions that are vibrating at different frequences.. or as Quantum physics might say, Everything exists as One Energy vibrating at various frequencies.

This does not imply the traditional Perception of God as a Supreme Being, it only implies the Aware-Energetic aspect of the universe.

My understanding is that at least 11 "dimensions" exist, but to me that is only what the "Astral" is about with it's 7 levels of Awareness (and their levels within) up to what I call the Akasha.. topmost astral layer... and on into what I call Soul level and then Over-Soul levels of Awareness.each level is only energy vibrating at a different rate.. hence Robert Monroe's work on defining the Focus Levels for those vibrations of energy.

Lastly, I may have lost some of you while waffling on here.. but suffice to say, the Whole Picture will not be Science only, nor will it be Religion only, because both are reaching their use-by dates in preparation for the next step "up" in "vibration"... like an electron jumps to higher frequencies at times and is no longer visible in Our Reality.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 12:14 AM
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You want me to prove the Universe exists? Can you not see it yourself? Can you not experience it yourself? Are you dead?


Come on, be sensible! you are avoiding my points with BS! of course the universe exists and of course i can experience myself, the simple fact that im replying to your ridiculous claims is evidence that i know the universe as well as myself exist! what does that prove? it does not prove that god exists! how old are you?

Yeah yeah the universe is god, jesus christ how foolish of me! god only knows why i bother trying to discuss things with fanatics :S The fact you use the word god implies that you have some religious beliefs so i apologise if i have misconstrued your faith/beliefs.


You are so confused it's hilarious to me.

i feel the same way about you oh holy than thou! and with that im not going to continue chasing my tail with religious people because there is literally no point, we can agree to disagree and i shall see you in hell



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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Our species needed something to look forward to when death comes, so organized religious institutions were created. They were also created with laws, rules and mythological beings/idols.

Man was not created by God but God was created by Man.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by enduser
basically, without faith you have no god, if god existed we would ALL know about it and there would be no doubt in any ones mind! if god existed there would be only one religion, no? it is very easy to make claims without proof and all you religious people do is claim that your opinion is fact! facts are universal, not subjective!


No, God still exists without faith. If faith didn't exist, the Universe would still exist. The Universe is God's body.

There is no reason for anyone to doubt the existence of God. Back in the day, very few doubted the existence of God. The Universe is God's body, and there is no reason to deny the existence of the Universe. However, human doubt is strong. People still doubt facts, would you like an example?

If you define the Universe as God, how do you prove a definition?

If I create a word such as "Dabdab", and I define it as an object which has wheels, an engine, you sit in it, drive it, etc.... how do I prove that "Dabdab" is a car or truck?

If I create a word such as "God", and I define it as all that exists, all energy, all matter, stars, planets, etc.... how do I prove that "God" is the Universe?

I don't think you understand...


Originally posted by enduser
as for satan and hell, well it is relevant because that is what a lot of religions teach!


Satan and hell is irrelevant because God can still exist without satan and hell.

What you are trying to do is use someone else's belief to disprove the existence of the Universe (a.k.a. God). That is like someone creating fake-scientific beliefs to disprove all science, that is ridiculous.


Originally posted by enduser
do you know the history of satan in regards to how man has perceived 'him' over the centuries?


Yes, I know what other people believe about satan. All of that is irrelevant.

I don't need books to tell me that the Universe (a.k.a. God) exists... I can see it, and it's wonders, and it's ability to create and sustain life, with my own eyes.


Originally posted by enduser
if god created everything as you suggest then god created the potential for all the ills, the suffering, in fact, it must be gods will that life is about suffering because youre guaranteed to feel a lot of physical and emotional pain throughout your life! what purpose does that serve in all honesty?


If Bad didn't exist, we would never really know what Good is. If Sad didn't exist, we would never really know what Happy is. If Pain didn't exist, then Painlessness wouldn't exist. If Negative didn't exist, Positive would not exist. In order for Nothing to exist, Something must exist.

In order for YOU to exist, there must exist the idea of you not existing.

God also created the potential for the CURE of all ills, and suffering.

"What purpose does that serve in all honesty?". It serves the purpose of EXISTENCE. Please tell me, if rich didn't exist, could being poor exist?

Some things must exist in order for other things to exist.


Originally posted by enduser
seems to me that if there is a god then it is not at all loving!


Your definition of "all loving" is most probably different than God's definition.

I consider my parents "all loving", yet they still punished me when I did something bad.

Just because humans perceive that illness and suffering is "evil" and "bad", it doesn't make it so. It all could have some higher greater purpose that we don't understand.

Some would think that military boot camp is pain and suffering to some extent, but all that pain and suffering has a greater purpose.

Your opinion of certain aspects of life doesn't disprove God.



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