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Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

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posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Can you name any place on earth full of peace and completely without religion, cult beliefs or superstition?


There have been scientific studies on morality that have indicated that there is zero statistical difference between the morals of a believer and an atheist, and some studies have actually shown that the moral compass actually swings in the atheists' favor.


I am sorry but that is incorrect. There hasn't been enough studies to show that if Atheists ruled there would be utopia.

Do you really want to find out if Atheist rule will bring utopia?

Because the only time Atheists ruled, many died. Sure they were Marxists but who says the next atheist ruler will not be?

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.




posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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The fact that people say God doesn't exist is actually scientifically incorrect. The correct term would be God hasn't been proven and there is a chance he may or may not exist.

How can you say something doesn't exist without absolute proof?

Sure we haven't had the ability to prove it but maybe someday. . .

We are still searching.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

Do you really want to find out if Atheist rule will bring utopia?

Because the only time Atheists ruled, many died. Sure they were Marxists but who says the next atheist ruler will not be?
Personally I do not assert that an Atheist society would be a Utopia or any better or worse than a wholly religious society. Most likely it would be the same in most respects. Greedy people would be greedy, lazy people would be lazy, and ignorant people would be ignorant. Not believing in God does not equate to any predisposed philosophical position other than the one stated.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


I can't find the exact study and findings, but I found a paper written about them (Here). The point is, studies have been done, and they've never shown a statistical difference between atheist and religious respondents.

As for atheist rule? That's an entirely different and off-topic subject. People as a whole have done horrible things to other people, and to speak of every atheist as if he's Mao or Stalin is to miss the point entirely.

What I find funny is that you pointed out that "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." and yet fail to mention how powerful religious ideals and communities are. How corrupt do you believe the rulers of the various churches around the world are?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Funny how he mentioned Gravity ^^

and funny how atheists love thinking about GOD, kind of proves the existence of that gene GOD some people are talking about.

Anyways, the laws of the Universe + the language it was programmed on is evidence of GOD, a conscious creator.

I guess logic came through Gravity lol..

Nice argument Mr. Hawking..



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99


How can you say something doesn't exist without absolute proof?

The same way you can say something DOES exist without absolute proof, by sidestepping the fact that you don't actually have absolute proof and substituting the definition with something that fits your personal bias.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by EsSeeEye
 


Very corrupt there is no doubt about that. I personally don't like the Vatican ruling the Catholic church and carrying all those riches and wealth. I am a Christian and I am against any religious ruling within our era.

The reason is solely because of corruption.

I am not saying that Atheists will do a worse job, because there hasn't been enough studies to determine the outcome.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix

Originally posted by Equinox99


How can you say something doesn't exist without absolute proof?

The same way you can say something DOES exist without absolute proof, by sidestepping the fact that you don't actually have absolute proof and substituting the definition with something that fits your personal bias.


Exactly, so me saying that God exists is scientifically untrue because it hasn't been proven. But it doesn't mean the search is over. . .

Again it would be the same thing for you to say there is no God. So Stephen Hawking is making all this information based on his theories.

Believing in a God is a theory. If people believed they have spoken to him how can you prove or disapprove them?

It is our job to keep searching spiritually and scientifically to find the answers to these problems. Until the time where one side can be definite, we will both continue our journey.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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When are these people going to notice that there is a force at work.
There are many things, like the way structure works, the way everything is structured. I'm convinced that we did not pop into existance by mistake, whatever modification we got along the way. Evolution is just a byproduct, the product of nature, nature is guided by other things, sounds, colors, dark and light. For everything to work the way it does it would have to have a precise pitch for everything that is, because in the end everything resumes to energetic harmonics.

This is how the universe works, and how we work.

IF anyone can debunk this.



Evolution is so stone age of explaining anything.
We are just vibrating energy, for us to exist and for anything to exist there
needs to be precice rules on everything, for it to work in harmony.
So debunk god, you can't.


[edit on 2-9-2010 by pepsi78]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

I am not saying that Atheists will do a worse job, because there hasn't been enough studies to determine the outcome.

So you're NOT saying atheists will do a worse job, because there hasn't been enough studies to determine the outcome....

I'm sure you don't actually take philosophical stances based on severely flawed 3rd party information....

Right?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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Stephan Hawking should stick to with what can be known, that is what science is. He doesn't know what is behind the forces that drive the universe, as such, he shouldn't talk.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Nice post, but it didn't have anything to do with what I said.

Might wanna look into possible medication options there buddy.


I did go on quite a tangent, but I was originally responding to your accusation that Christians believe the earth was created in 6 days.

I have yet to meet an actual Christian that believes the -earth- was created in 6 days.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by Parallex
 


Gravity is a fact, but whoever thinks that gravity is the only force in this universe are just like religious people. Sticking to their dogma.


Gravity is not a fact. They do not even know what it is. Gravity is an effect of something unknown. In FACT if the universe is a computer simulation nothing would be a fact at ALL. It could all be the imagination of a programer



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99



Again it would be the same thing for you to say there is no God.
And it would be the same for the believer. You said it best yourself.


Believing in a God is a theory.
Nuff said.

If people believed they have spoken to him how can you prove or disapprove them?
I don't. I couldn't anyway, proof is ultimately relative to the person it's being presented to. What if I had proof of no god in the form a complex computer model using quantum mechanics and airtight provable scientific components. Why would you accept it as proof if you couldn't understand it? If you believe you've had a conversation wtih God no super advanced computation is going to convince you otherwise. And isn't that what we expect the "proof" of no god to look like? I mean if there's no god theres no proof to find right? So it'd have to be some kind of end all blueprint for all of reality (and whatever else there is) that could be expressed ina way that the average person could understand.

I don't see tens of thousands of years of believeing in angry guys in the clouds being replaced by "Oh there's no god, hell, the Everything Algorithm is my screen saver"



It is our job to keep searching spiritually and scientifically to find the answers to these problems. Until the time where one side can be definite, we will both continue our journey.
Agreed 100%

Enjoy your Journey!



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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According to Wikipedia: "The Universe comprises everything we perceive to exist physically, the entirety of space and time, all forms of matter and energy."

It is possible to theorize that the Universe may be self-sustaining, however it does not directly correlate to whether or not it was placed by God (I do believe God exists).

On a side note as well, we are talking about a man who for years theorized unheard of remarks pertaining to black holes and stood by and defending these theories only to later on say, simply put, "I changed my mind".

Just because this man is a genius does not make his word law.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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It is hard for me to imagine that there is not a Spirit world and that, is not a supreme creator, the reason is it is in the core of my being. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exist, ofcourse I can not prove that to anyone. The only way to prove that God exist must come within each individual.

I sometimes feel sorry for these smart scientist who have dedicated there whole lives to science and discovery, yet there lives seem shallow and uncomplete because they are still looking for something that they can not grasp.

What they can not grasp is God because to them God does not exist, and to them they will forever be empty.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Can you name any place on earth full of peace and completely without religion, cult beliefs or superstition?


There have been scientific studies on morality that have indicated that there is zero statistical difference between the morals of a believer and an atheist, and some studies have actually shown that the moral compass actually swings in the atheists' favor.


Interesting... who is the judge of those morals? Are morals another dimension of nature? Have scientists used the scientific formula to determine what is moral? What studies? Whose moral compass?

From my personal experience, I will agree that a lot of atheists seem to do a pretty good job of living by God's moral compass even better than a lot of Christians. But because atheists do not feel there is accountability when no one else is around, they are exceptional at knowing how to act but do not believe that there is a way to be even when one is alone or around strangers. Of course, a lot of self-proclaimed Christians are the same way...

So, for the few who do believe God is keeping them accountable, I say don't worry about those "studies" because those studies aren't going to show the world your heart.

And yes, there is a place on earth that can be at peace and be without religion, cult beliefs, or superstition...

The solitary human mind.

But once you throw another person into the mix, all that changes. And since we are social creatures, you won't find that anywhere else.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Actually you have no proof of the latter

Ahhh again with the "proof". Prove that God IS neccessary for a moral compass. Seeing how that can't be proven, proof is rendered moot in both cases, which is I don't put such a high value on it. I don't need proof to say it, much like a christian doesn't need proof to attest to immaculate conception. However what I am saying is very reasonable, it does not require a sky god, a bible, or anything to support it. I don;t need evolution, natural selection, history, or prophecies. It's something I can say that stands on it's own two feet. What can a religious person say that doesn't require all these extra components to work?


Let us define God without all of His "humanity" and only refer to Him as "The Origin" or "The Great Unifying Force Which Precedes All Things".

We should all be able to agree that the universe DID have an origin because motion does not happen without a catalyst - we have proven this scientifically for sure and it can be proven to anyone who is confused.

I would like to refer to that origin as "The Great Unifying Force Which Precedes All Things" and one-up it and include "The Great Unifying Force By Which All Things Exist".

Morals would not exist if we had not been created. We were certainly created, whether directly or indirectly by "The Great Unifying Force" because IT is "The Origin".

Whether it has happened directly or it has happened indirectly, morals would not exist if we were not created in this particular form. The word, the specific definition, and the general idea upon which all agree exists because "The Great Unifying Force By Which All Things Exist" IS.

Therefore, the information, the crystallization, the specific nature and laws which automatically govern our universe include our human morals.

Therefore, "God", which is, for me, short for "The Great Unifying Force Which Precedes All Things and Is, Therefore, Responsible For a Great Deal Many Things" (I'm starting to make myself laugh) is responsible for our moral compass.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by gandhi
I have been pondering this question for a while. Existence existing....how? Spontaneous creation is just as good an answer as god created everything.


Just as ancient man could not comprehend the weather and considered crop failures punishment from a vengeful god who required the sacrifice of virgins to quench his anger, it was just as good an answer.

As humans have evolved stricter and more logical intelligence, we've just pushed the goalposts of what we don't understand further and lo and behold, once more it's god hiding the secrets of what we don't grasp.

The unknown boogeyman with a book and a bad attitude...





posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by Xeven
 


Well are interpretation of gravity is a fact. For example. If you jump off a building you’re not going to fly, you’re going to hit the ground. Gravity



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