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Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

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posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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I've always wondered if the universe did actually start?
Bare with me on this.

Imagine, if you will, that there is no start, time goes back and back and back, never starting.

'How can something not start?'
- How can a man live in the clouds and create humans?

Just imagine that it never started, it was just a never ending timeline.

Confusing, hard to explain, and mind boggling.
However, it never ceases to make me wonder.




posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Riposte


The truth is that God has no opposite; it is whole, complete, eternal and infinite... God is the ground of being.
As an Atheist I can entertain this idea. If we want to describe God as basically "The Force" I can run with that. But as soon as you start slapping human qualities and motivations to it, it goes right out the window.

God as the glue that holds reality together, keeps everything from spinning out of control, provides energy for creation, yeah ok that's sounds reasonable.

God as a Judge, manipulator of human affairs, decider of fates, nah that's unnneccesary.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix

God as the glue that holds reality together, keeps everything from spinning out of control, provides energy for creation, yeah ok that's sounds reasonable.


That's the Einsteinian version of religion, which is basically saying that the laws of physics equal God. Unfortunately, that's not a very good way to use the terminology, because it's impossible to separate Einsteinian "God" from true, religious, moral right-and-wrong baggage "God", so using it in that manner really confuses people.

By the way, that Rabbi should really read Richard Dawkins. He responds directly to that exact argument in The God Delusion (The argument being: Science decides how, religion decides why).



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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Really, who gives a f*** what Stephen Hawking thinks, if it's not about black holes or cosmology? Why is his opinion any better than yours or mine?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Parallex
someone who practices 'faith' or a religion is empirically stunted and incapable of
impartial modern science.


This is a foolish and incorrect prejudicial view. Unless one is an extremist, there is no fundamental incompatibility between modern science and faith.


Originally posted by metalholic
gravity is the magnetic pull between 2 objects objects being any form of anything!


Why do you believe that gravity is magnetism? They are two of the four fundamental interactions of nature, so they're hardly the same thing.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by 19872012
 
Because he is educated and knowledgeable about his subject matter. Not saying his opinion is "better" than anyone elses, but I'll certainly pay more attention to his ideas versus an internet "scientist".



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix
How unneccesary is God? As far as the creation of cosmos goes, don;t need him. Moral compass, not needed.


Actually you have no proof of the latter

Can you name any place on earth full of peace and completely without religion, cult beliefs or superstition?

I only say this because, I do not believe you have proof of this
It is something you have faith in, humanity, that drives this belief of yours.

How is that different from someone believing religion steers the world in the correct direction?
Because it doesn't? Who knows, I don't believe what the media portrays anyhow.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by 19872012
 
Because he is educated and knowledgeable about his subject matter. Not saying his opinion is "better" than anyone elses, but I'll certainly pay more attention to his ideas versus an internet "scientist".



Sure, but just because he is smart, doesn't mean he's right about God! I'm sure Richard Dawkins is VERY smart, maybe not as much as Hawking but close. doesn't mean atheism is true.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix

Originally posted by slinger
. Sorry God haters still no real proof God didn't make the big bang!
Sorry God Lovers, still no real proof that God DID make the big bang. Of course, this goes without saying, since you can't make the first assertion without conceding to the second.


Personal proof is different than something you can put on paper,I can tell you of some wild things that happened to me and half the people would say yep its God, some would say no it's not God Its a coincident.
How can you put something like that on paper? solid mathematical proof is easy to put on paper. So I do not have to concede ( although I do think OK I may be wrong but It hasn't been proven to me that I am)



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf
People only think Hawking is brilliant because they pity him for being a cripple.


This may perhaps be the worst post i've ever read by an ATS member.

that's quite cynical and disgusting

I can't believe someone actually posted that
Do you even know who hawkings is and what he has contributed to the scientific community or did you only see pictures of him?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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a little food for thought on this subject

Awareness of itself created the universe
and the more aware of itself the mass consciousness becomes
the faster the universe expands and moves away from itself
we as a collective consciousness are only seeing 1 -10th of our universe
there is so much more for us to discover
The collective consciousness “as thought of as God” is the god of creation
and what ever we the collective focus upon, be it good or bad …we create.
and yes God does seem to move in mysterious ways .... considering all the mass prayers that are sent out into the collective consciousness...god does not know whether it is coming or going half the time ...
as one persons prayer can clash against another persons prayer



On the other hand
The divine being is that which is the super intelligence that permeate through all life, It is the essence of all being
The divine being is ignorant of it’s own existence for it cannot see any other
It is without reflection and there for, does not care or find judgement.

there is only one eye in the universe and the one "I" cannot see itself.
as everything is contained with in it's own being.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Can you name any place on earth full of peace and completely without religion, cult beliefs or superstition?


There have been scientific studies on morality that have indicated that there is zero statistical difference between the morals of a believer and an atheist, and some studies have actually shown that the moral compass actually swings in the atheists' favor.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Snarf
People only think Hawking is brilliant because they pity him for being a cripple.


This may perhaps be the worst post i've ever read by an ATS member.

that's quite cynical and disgusting

I can't believe someone actually posted that
Do you even know who hawkings is and what he has contributed to the scientific community or did you only see pictures of him?


i actually think there's a grain of truth to that. dont get me wrong, he is genius, but im sure there are scientists equally smart that don't get as much credit because they don't have a disability.

and maybe they shouldn't - hawking proves that even if you have a disability, you can still do legendary things.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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God: I didn't create Hawking.

God: Nietzsche is dead.

Chuck Norris: I am God.



[edit on 3-9-2010 by RadioKnecht]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Can you name any place on earth full of peace and completely without religion, cult beliefs or superstition?


There have been scientific studies on morality that have indicated that there is zero statistical difference between the morals of a believer and an atheist, and some studies have actually shown that the moral compass actually swings in the atheists' favor.


I don't think there's a place on Earth without religion (aside from an atheist convention lol). But look at say Sweden, a country that's 80+% atheist and extremely peaceful, then compare it to the Middle East, which is like 95-99% religious. On the other hand, Canada and Tibet are both pretty religious yet are very peaceful. I would say it has no correlation, or if it does it's not so much because it's religious or non-religious, but based on the brand of religion/non-religion.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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Second
~ this one is for you.


Okay ATS get your head round this one. I am a strong believer in Science AND Spirituality! Ha! Seems contradictory, but actually its not..

Allow me to suggest this. Matter IS spiritual ~ I beleive in the spirituality of material existence.

Think of the universe as an "existential happening" ~ existence happens. Life (as a consequence and progression) has happened purely because of this happening. Evolution as i see it, goes beyond the life forms we call animals. Forms of this universe, particles, objects, cells, tissue, organs, organisms... are all from the same source. This same universal energy, the cause of all existence, can be scientifically observed, emotionally experienced, as well as objectively defined, in my opinion, without loosing the mystery at heart of our essential essence. Pure energy. I not saying this source is in any way "non-physical", just that what we call physical is no less spiritual the more we can objectively define and observe its core mechanics. Conversely, i believe the more we look at quantum structures of this universe, the more its mystery deepens and humbles the curious mind. Purely awesome, we can see so many common characteristics in our dimension, that the one-ness in it all becomes almost inescapable. Allow your heart the freedom to be capable, if only for this moment, to fluctuate between being a mechanical soulless muscle - mere organ in you chest, into something which recognises its true identity as an Earthling who has a heart which beats our consciousness into being - purely an organ of planet earth, beating with life. Very much in the same way as the driving force behind the electron, where a fluctuation occurs, beating motion on the quantum scale of our dimension, where this thing we call "matter" periodically comes in and out of existence, beating, like a heart. We all have one. And as its beats, life, we cause other things to resonate with this beat, possibly in parallel dimensions, where the universe operates in a way currently unobservable by physicists. Just understand and see that one of the basic principles of physics tells us that Energy is never lost, its is only ever dissipated into the environment. Our "environment" is our dimension, where energy has fluctuated or to use a musical term "transposed" itself into the rules and laws which govern the nature of this dissipation. Coal is mainly Carbon, but carbon is oil, dust, treeleaves, whatever rules of existance this form comes into contact with, inturn transposed into.. But there are many scales to perceive in this. Yes we know for a fact energy enters our dimension, from some mysterious "elsewhere", but what we don't yet know is how in fact this energy is dissipated entirely. What fraction have we come to perceive as beings. compared to the multiparralells we can logically conceive, due to the multiparrallels we can already perceive though scientific instruments, and invoke beautifully through musical instruments? The electromagnetic spectrum for has this small slither in the "middle" - a relative term? - we call the "visual light" spectrum. Snuggly between infra-red and ultraviolet. This is the part of reality we can look at.. but really its a slither.,,,, and what i am suggesting is this..


we can literally see from the moment we wake up a tiny portion of the electro-magentic spectrum... but, really, is this merely a slither within a slither?


How many layers are there. When can we find them? Are we already IN them? Mindfully, perhaps... mindlessly, perhaps not.. what is enlightenment? Ascension literally? As in Physically quantifiable transposition? Between one layer of the realm of consciousness and another? Well, one thing is certain. This is ALL ENERGY ~ Never Lost, but the question i am asking is, where else and how else is this energy dissipated. We know our hearts beat - and have done for a long time - because we have ears and intuition. But what of the nature of the energy it is "beating". How many ayers of our reality does it penetrate? Karma is real. Very real, i am suggesting so real infact that possibly we can record the resonance of this mystery perhaps one day, as physicists of tommorow, as physicists of today have told us how a light bulb is HOT and BRIGHT. Yes, you get me? So what else does a light bulb shine upon?

Oh and god?

The source. "Intention is the prime mover" as i once read under the signature of a fellow ATS member. Intention. The bit just before existance, still very real, though, simply a less dimensional type of real. Pure Energy. Dimnesionless energy. Spawning the rest of existance. Because E equals M C Squared.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Actually you have no proof of the latter

Ahhh again with the "proof". Prove that God IS neccessary for a moral compass. Seeing how that can't be proven, proof is rendered moot in both cases, which is I don't put such a high value on it. I don't need proof to say it, much like a christian doesn't need proof to attest to immaculate conception. However what I am saying is very reasonable, it does not require a sky god, a bible, or anything to support it. I don;t need evolution, natural selection, history, or prophecies. It's something I can say that stands on it's own two feet. What can a religious person say that doesn't require all these extra components to work?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by Gigatronix
 


I think you may be wasting your time. Without proof that God exists, you can't prove that he has or does not have any effect on the universe.

The question should be "Does religion have any effect on the moral compass."

[edit on 9/2/2010 by EsSeeEye]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by slinger
 


Uhhh not really sure what your point is, other than to move the goalposts back in your favor. Proof is proof. You expect us prove all these scientific theories with explanations most people wouldn'y understand anyway, but your "personal proof" is absolutely acceptable? I think not. You either have a uniform standard of proof that applies to both sides of the debate or you have do away with idea of proof altogether. Neither can be proven, so asking for proof is just a ploy to to steer the conversation away from something you can't explain. Your personal experience is ok for you, but it doesn't fly anywhere else.

So in closing, there is still no proof either way. Nobody is "winning", because everybody is just as clueless as the next guy. Even Mr Hawkings, hes got some good ideas and a wealth of knowledge, but he can prove nothing and cannot claim to KNOW anything about God, or the lack thereof.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye

Without proof that God exists, you can't prove that he has or does not have any effect on the universe.



[edit on 9/2/2010 by EsSeeEye]
I have no interest in proving anything, that's the thing. The more you try to argue these kinds of things with religious people the more they laugh at you. " Look at the fool trying to prove something doesn't exist".


I'm simply stating my opinion, agreement is not required or even neccessarily desired.

I'm all for looking at information at incorporating it into my own belief system, but I'm not out looking for proof, because there is none. If and when it does come, I will judge for myself then and there.



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