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Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

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posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Sometimes the truth can get lost in the details. In the end, even if one universe popped out of another and so on, you still have to begin with something. So there had to be a beginning, and something that was not a part of the original beginning substance had to create it. To me, that means a Creator had to do it.









[edit on 4-9-2010 by Fromabove]




posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
Sometimes the truth can get lost in the details. In the end, even if one universe popped out of another and so on, you still have to begin with something. So there had to be a beginning, and something that was not a part of the original beginning substance had to create it. To me, that means a Creator had to do it.









[edit on 4-9-2010 by Fromabove]


but this is the crux of the argument here. You say a creator had to do it, but how was the creator created? If you say that God just "is", then all we are doing is filling our gaps of knowledge with a "god"



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Sphota
 
Circles, as far as I know there is no such thing as a natural occurring perfect circle in creation, so much for the crop circles.

The circle would be first natural occurring 3 dimensional object, geometricly speaking the first 3 demensional object would of been, circle 1 side in or out, cone 2 sides, tetrahedron 4 sides.

It would seem that the ride could indeed be the purpose, surely not the destination, you have just left the destination.
The Univese is simply something that had to occur, for even the Nothing can not, did not exist without the perspective of the Something.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


Gentill Abdulla

Member


Registered: 20-1-2010
Location:

Member was on ATS
33 minutes ago.

where'd ya go? realise how stupid this argument is? being that we are arguing about a theory that is based off other theories and that neither one of us including the guys who came up with the theories that we use to support our theories bascially know jack about the universe...thought so!!!!


No I went to sleep.

And look up the meaning of a scientific theory instead of using the LAYMAN'S definition.

You have some more reading you need to do.

Just keep on keepin' on.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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Its fun how people are in this day and age.. We still have not gotten to the point where we can disprove, or prove God. To note even more over, God is a construct, a word that has different meanings to different people.
Im sure he has offended many people with his BOLD statement..

But lets be clear.. God is a word at this point, God is a feeling, and meaning of something beyond what we know or are..

To say God did make something, nor make something is kinda going into a different mental mode..

No one really knows.

Its just that plane and simple.. No one really knows, and we all think we have feelings about such things..

Yet in the end.. We are just animals barking, and fighting with eachother about stuff we don't even understand.. Yet there are those who claim they understand..
They don't..
I don't and none of us know..

Nor would I ever claim such knowledge.. Its ego that pushes us into such topics.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Something rather amusing keeps happing when I see this thread in my "subscribed" list. With an averted glance, I keep seeing "Stephen Hawking didn't create the universe", leaving "God" out of it. It all seems strangely profound somehow, like I'm receiving hidden messages.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


That rabbi got it totally wrong. All existence can be explained, scientifically; we just aren't there, yet. We aren't to the point where we know everything, nor will we likely ever be. He is right in one thing: religion is interpretation, albeit an incredibly incorrect one. Much of our science is also incorrect, but at least it uses logic and reason to try and explain the universe rather than made up stories about fantastical beings. Anybody can create fantasy in their head to explain the universe (spaghetti monster). But science and mathematics are proven mediums of explanation and can be tested, observed and replicated time and time again.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
The point isn't that there is no God, its that the Universe could have created itself without one.


While that is true, Hawkings still uses the Big Bang Theory in reference as Fact.

It's not fact, it's a theory.
And I doubt it's true either.


Everything in science is based on theory. There is no fact when newer ways to test experiments change and so-called theories of yesterday are revised. I really do hate it when people act like the word "theory" has no weight. For something to become a theory, it has to be tested in labs and mathimatical equations extensively! It has to have some weight to it. The Big Bang Theory is about the current theory which explains the creation of our Universe, putting God into the equation is silly, leaving him out is logical.



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 09:27 PM
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(From another Hawking thread)
All forms of physics, all forms of science for that matter are a by-product of creation.
When the universe was formed certain laws had to be used to keep order in the mist of all the chaos.
Scientist are working on these questions, these theories and hypothesis from the outside in.
Kinda like working a math problem in reverse, trying to find the sum of "A".
The biggest problem they have? All they think they know does not amount to anything in the really big picture.
We still do not know for 100% positive anything about our universe.
We may have theories about how things work and these theories might fit perfectly but are they right? Are there also other theories that might fit?
Science can not say for certain that there was a big bang.
It can not say for certain that evolution is real.
It can not even say with out a doubt that there is no God. To do so would be VERY closed minded and we know that spiritual people are the only ones with closed minds; now don't we?
So many times I hear this from those that feel they are intellectually superior to others, especially regarding faith.
They claim that spiritual people are closed minded and just refuse to acknowledge the truth.
What many of them refuse to see is that they really have no idea what the truth is because they are the ones with the closed hearts.
Open your heart and your mind will follow.
Do not claim someone else has a closed mind all because you think that your way of thinking is the only way. In the end your truth and all of your so called knowledge boils down to an opinion, yours or that of another that you claim as yours.
I am a Christian. I believe that the Son of God came to this earth, lived, taught, died on the cross for my sins and rose again on the third day.
I do not know exactly how God created this universe. He could of used a big bang if he wanted.
I do not know how old the earth or the universe is because the bible does not clearly come out and give us an age. We may be able to speculate from what is written but we do not know for sure.
I do not know if there is life on other planets. There is nothing to say there is not.
I do not know many things, just like every one else in this world.
BUT my heart is open.
I DO know that my Father in heaven loves me.
I DO know that if I try to live my life by His word and repent of my sins that I will meet Him one day.
I DO know that with out faith there is a whole lot in life that we would miss out on.
A few of you seem to feel that there will come a day when science proves once and for all that there is NO GOD
What will happen when you find that the sum of "A" is GOD?



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia


A rabbi responds


But his finding were described by Sacks as an "elementary fallacy" of logic.

"There is a difference between science and religion. Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation. The Bible simply isn't interested in how the universe came into being."

"But there is more to wisdom than science. It cannot tell us why we are here or how we should live. Science masquerading as religion is as unseemly as religion masquerading as science."

www.guardian.co.uk...

This should be interesting because it may spark alot of scientific and philosophical debates, which is a good thing.

I would probably agree with Hawkings though, God is not required to create the universe.

And then the rabbi said the bible doesn't care who created it.
But then why call God the creator then?

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


The problem I have with this "Science and religion are different things, just keep them seperate and all will be well" argument is that if tommorow evolution was disproven you can bet the theists wouldn't be saying "Well, science and religion are different anyways, so who cares. No, I think you'd hear alot more "Ha! Now we got you, ya science freaks! Evolution is a lie and so are the rest of your beliefs, God wins again! Haha!".



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 05:27 AM
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I don't believe God can be separated from science because he is the one who implemented the scientific rules to the Universe and Dimensions. We cannot even fathom what kind of entity he/she/it might be. We have been around for a short amount of time and can create life with science. You don't really think something that's been around forever can do what your wildest imagination can conceive?! He/it is unfathomable.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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Lately mister SK said :
Stephen Hawking says we must flee Earth
or his latest comments about.. God didnt create Earth/Universe

I think he dont see a bigger picture here..
he his a wise man YES.. but not his latest comment..that was closeminded

It was FAITH that created this rare living planet called Earth
one of the most liveable planets ever created .. and we have a huge sun helping us...
EVERYTHING was perfectly alligned to create this Heaven like habitable planet that we call earth .. MOTHER EARTH

A little to FAR from the sun = makes the earth not liveable
A little to CLOSE to the sun = makes the earth not liveable


Earth was created in a none coincidential way or by someone powerfull..GOD .. our Father and Creator in the first place

just ask yourselfs ... the chances are very slim that earth popup up like this in the center of nowhere perfectly alligned to substain life... i have learned that coincidences like this ARE VERY RARE TO NO CHANCES OF HAPPENING EVER in millions of years
Faith created us ...and that everything was created for a purpose..
i dont know but somebody had this higher purpose good deal to create all of this beautifull heaven
is it simply coincidential ? maybe maybe not



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by Ben81
 


You are right. Existence didn't come from nothing. Existence came from the infinite.

We can't imagine the infinite, because its to far away and its to big.

Humans cant see the difference between the finite existence and the infinite. But scientists and Mr. Hawking do mention with pride that our finite universe is expanding.

Its funny how they cant figure out that: since our finite existence is expanding at present time. That it actually must have been compressed to begin with.

The only dimension that could have create this compressed mass is the infinite dimension. But don't learn about the Big Bang theory, because the scientists have missed out that a compression would actually emit energy, thereby the compressed matter would never explode. The emitted energy would rather reduce the compression and cool down the core mass compressed.

This mass, or this seed if you like. Consists of everything that is to come in the future. It just has to expand and change for things/life to appear. We are proof that it has happened.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Ben81
It was FAITH that created this rare living planet called Earth
one of the most liveable planets ever created .. and we have a huge sun helping us...
EVERYTHING was perfectly alligned to create this Heaven like habitable planet that we call earth .. MOTHER EARTH

A little to FAR from the sun = makes the earth not liveable
A little to CLOSE to the sun = makes the earth not liveable


Ah, but this begs the question, which even a person of faith may ask (I know, I'm asking it :-) -- is the Earth right for us because God specifically made it so, knowing that we'd be along at some time to occupy it, or are we here because the Earth is right for us?

In other words, if the Earth was a million miles further from Sol, would the human race be somewhere else, would we be physically different (thicker hides or internal heaters or something,) would we simply not exist or is it impossible to imagine that the Earth could be a million miles from where it is now?

A way to perhaps make it clearer might be to ask what the nature of "you" is. If your parents had not met, do you believe that "you" would still exist, you'd just have different parents? Do you believe that your soul comes from God and would be the same whether you were a boy, a girl, had different parents or were on another planet?

The Universe is a pretty big place. If your view of God is limited to say "Earth cannot be anywhere other than where it is, and humankind cannot be anywhere other than Earth", you're unnecessarily pushing God into a box of your own making, and potentially missing some key aspects of his nature.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Don't know if this is relevant, but Stephen Hawking's theories are now being challenged by a new anomaly. The new discovery of a Magnetar that challenges stellar evolution & black hole theories.

Back to the drawing board.


‘Magnetar challenges stellar evolution, black hole theory'

www.space.com...
www.zeenews.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...
www.indiatalkies.com...

Has Stephen Hawking been wrong for the last 30 years?
www.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 5-9-2010 by kindred]



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Take a look at this topic in the Science & Technology Forum on ATS. Parallel Universes Proven.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If this new scientifical break through is correct, it says:
God exists and also he does not! What does it mean?

What do you choose?



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Another Hawking thread. It seems he is really running his mouth these days. If he was not a cripple no one would listen to this fool. He backs nothing up with facts. Nothing.



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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You know the smartest man on earth (Albert Einstein) was once an Atheist. After clear thought and reason he finally came to a conclusion that their is a GOD and that is why he became a Deist.

I love it how skeptics and Atheists make fun of people who sell books or DVD's to promote their 'false' beliefs. Now I see this.

Pot calling the kettle black.


[edit on 5-9-2010 by dragnet53]



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


Hawkings theory is not falsifiable unless you want to wait around for the universe to create itself. So he claims to prove that nothing can create everything.

I say BS. Anyone with common sense can see that that is an absurdity. It makes about as much sense as an Intel core i7 forming accidentally from some silicon on a nearby sandy beach.

Hawkings thinks that his inconsistent equations, rife with infinities, can reveal the truth about all things? More rubbish. You can't even prove the existence of a black hole, which many mathematicians claim are actually inconsistent with the theory of relativity. Moreover there are alternative explanations for the effects they are attributing to black holes.

One thing you can be confident about any physical theory is that its wrong. It will soon be replaced by some other more complex model. yet we are supposed to take a flawed model and assume it proves the non-existence of God. Did it ever occur to Hawking that the parameters of his model may well have been designed by a higher intelligence?



posted on Sep, 5 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Well, the media has determined it is time to debate the matter.... especially since his new book to this effect hits the store shelves in two weeks.... how else do you get to put it on the "Top seller" list before it's available?

Honestly, how reasoning can lead someone to expect to understand the infinite is beyond me....

The universe is finite NOT infinite. The reason why people (like yourself) "can't understand" how people can understand the universe is why religion and the belief in God exists.

A sad reflection on the narrow thinking of humans, usually reserved for less educated peoples in the past or remote native tribes:

1. I don't understand - so it must be God.
2. I can't explain - so it must be God
3. I fear death - God will be there.

Whereas:

1. I don't understand - Yet
2. I can't explain - Yet
3. I don't fear death - everyone dies it's part of life.......ironically enough!



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