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Hardcore Metaphysics

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posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:46 AM
Start with the senses, the things you see with your eyes. Light is reflected off these objects and visualized with the eyes, producing an image the brain then processes. The memory is the power to remember this form independent of the material object. This power of memory is more immaterial to the senses materiality. Higher than the memory in terms of immateriality is the Reason which categorizes the forms, independent of sense objects, as well as independent of form, being a universal understanding of the practicality of each object. Higher than this in terms of immateriality is the absolute immaterial, unlike Reason which still deals in form, the intelligence needs no form, it comprehends actualities in terms of categories and forms, and is able to think about these realities and form conclusions and secondary reactions to knowing this knowledge, in a type of self-awareness of self. This self is the goal.

God is not the self. The body is not the self. The mental-forms are not the self. But the purified mind is the self.

Immortal, eternal, unborn: immortal because it is unborn, unborn because it is eternal, all three because it is the most absolutely simplistic, the highest immaterial.

This much makes sense. The rest, combining with physical forms, does not make sense, because the subject is no longer the mind itself, but that which is comprehended by the mind. All knowledge is the result of the ability of the knower, not based upon the total knowledge of the object. Objects are not aware of themselves, unless those objects happen to be humans, and humans alone can have the higher contemplation denied to other animals. This means we can understand real life as a fragment upon the perpetual cycle of that which is called the universe. But there is an awareness that is aware of this universe, and that awareness is independent of the universe, the mysterious black hole of existence, by which no knowledge can escape. This black hole is merely the Self attempting to see itself, which is an impossibility, because it is forcing the Self to objectify itself, but this can not be, since the highest Self is the most immaterial.

posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:49 AM
Metaphysics, an almost entirely forgotten subject, has its basis in the mind. As such, it is immaterial and not material. The mental forms are illuminated by the mind, viewed in the same way that objects are illuminated under light, not actual parts of the eye, but illuminated in such a way that the eye can see. The mind too can see, but more so, through a higher rational of Reason.


These are the four aspects of comprehension, starting with the lowest surface sense-knowledge, moving up to its memory of the perception of a form, higher than that is the ability to categorize the forms, and finally intelligence which comprehends the total, the entire point within the frame of consciousness.

Add to that, a series of ascending stages

1. vision of absolute
2. desire of absolute
3. rationalization of absolute
4. comprehension of absolute
5. unity with absolute
6. subsistence with absolute
7. emancipation into the absolute

Each of these stages is for the beginner, a step by step process to reach the highest samadhi.

Finally, consciousness itself must be overcome, to avoid the Subject-Object duality, by knowing that the Self can not be objectified; the universe is caused by the self's perpetual process of objectifying itself, which it can never succeed to do, and thus dies again and again, the only escape from this perpetual reincarnation is to know that the Self can not be objectified.

There is nothing more to learn after that. If you know that the Self can not be objectified, you have a diamond mind, a mind that is pure, that does not see false forms of the Self, but such a mind exists only when they eliminate all duality surrounding the highest Self.

posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:14 PM
The universe exists because of the Self's perpetual attempt to objectify itself, which is impossible because the Self is immaterial. The mind produces thoughts which are abstract notions correlating to a physical form, and therefore thoughts are always part material, part immaterial. Only the mind itself is completely immaterial, a purified mind without even a thought, and thus no connection to the physical world.

Through either ignorance or wisdom, the mind produces thoughts which creates the continuous cycle. The path of wisdom lies in taking certain action by which the Self can be realized, and after that, the process of rationalization is ended and the Self is experienced by a peaceful mind, one free of desire. A mind that realizes it is the Self, with nothing more to gain.

posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:51 PM
Nice thread. I particularly like the third post, which explains the reason for the creation of the universe, if not the mechanics involved. And the title, of course. Hardcore indeed.

I wonder if an abiding interest in the mechanics involved is counter-productive to the stated goal? Might that not qualify as #3 rationalization of the absolute, the attempt to understand the process involved in the initial obfuscation of the mind?

posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:35 AM
Please make up some system or explanation which synthesizes New Thought and Buddhism. Then explain why getting what you want via New Thought techniques is contrary to the path of Enlightenment.

I like your whole explanation about the thoughts being still part physical, because they trickle down from the Self to the brain.

Any good system has Levels of Being instead of a reductionist approach putting everything on one level.

posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 08:41 AM
reply to post by joechip

thank you for your interest in this thread. I would agree that the mechanics of creation is detrimental to some degree with enlightenment/liberation, because it is forcing the mind to create endless mental equations, which is a type of frequency that can bind one's self to the material universe and prevent liberation.

The mechanics of the universe is: SIMPLICITY TO COMPLEXITY. The absolute is the most simplex, and it "evolves" or "emanates" outwards to create complexity we see in nature. The complexity that we see in nature is disputed by neither creationist, evolutionist, or nihilist, and the complexity is the result of FORMS. The mind sees these forms and comes up with a conclusion, just as they see a person and think: this is my friend. The mind's ability to remember is the link to the past, which proves that the body stores moments of the past, which is its only link to the past in a real sense.

This illumination of the subtle causes of the universe can help in becoming fully liberated, but the clinging to form is also the prevention of liberation. The form of the Absolute is limitlessness, infinity, and so there is no form to comprehend, it is objectless, immaterial, just as the Christian God is immaterial. However, unlike the Christian God, it is not of the universe, but rather completely independent of it. The form of the absolute would be Perfection Itself, and if this is impossible in the physical world, says the Evolutionist/Materialists, then this "God" or as some call it, Godhead, is also beyond the universe, (the absolute highest reality, in other words reality itself). So it would seem like the Godhead is the universe if he is the creator of it. But since nature has such complexity to it, and the Godhead/Absolute is One, it must mean that that is the lower realm of Godhead, so as the second poster commented, the system has levels of being rather than reductionism to zero (evolutionists) or one (christians), and so the Godhead is divided into the highest absolute, the material universe (Nature), and something in between (the mind/ a "god", goodness, purity, liberation, enlightenment).

So the basis of metaphysics is not the creation of the universe per se, but rather of the mind.

So new subject:

The mind is that which comprehends the universe. We don't even need to be concerned with the origin of the universe, only of the mind. So if we study the mind, we would see that the self beyond the mind is what sees, hears, thinks, regardless of bodily organ involved. The Self then must be part of these organs, but also immaterial like the mind. So the self is in between these two things, body and mind. The mind we can think of as immaterial, but it really is something that can be reduced logically, for example, if you think about your childhood, it is the result of the mind's association with a past memory, triggered by some moment in the present, so in other words, consciousness is a system, it is not one single thing, but a collection of parts. Cosmic Consciousness/Enlightenment/Liberation is more than that, it is One part but divided into many various parts, and so in order to avoid the reduction of the One, it is said that there is a lower level of beings where the One becomes many. This "many" is the universe as we know it. And if we can see the present, we can see the changes from one moment to the next, and remember that it had once been different. This knowledge is a higher property of the mind, something higher than the senses, so whether this is localized in the brain or in the nervous system, the point is that the mind can comprehend, even if only in an illusionary manner, the past. But we are not concerned with the past, only that we can remember it. This proves there is some type of sense-perception that is more complex than the simple perception of sight: the eyes see, the brain comprehends what has been seen. But with memory, it starts with the sense-organs, and then moves up to patterns and symmetry, and logic, and there exists a higher mode of knowledge.


The senses see objects in a simple manner, the imagination is a bit more complex, seeing the objects as the senses do, but also seeing something different (in the "mind's eye"). So the mind can see something within itself, if only dimly.

The reason is the "light itself" which illuminates the mind's eye, and allows the soul or person to see the forms. Reason was the highest thought of the ancient Greeks, and a reading of Plato, Plotinus, or Boethius should make this concept clear. In modern society, we speak of "a" reason, not "the" reason, but the Greeks understood the Reason or ability to reason as the proof of the Goodness which Plato and Aristotle talk about.

But higher than even Reason is what Boethius explains is the intelligentsia, the divine spark of Reason, which is not perpetual like reason, which has to take one image at a time, study it, and find a pattern, but this is the most simple, like a light, simply illuminating an object, not even necessary for it to be aware of what object it is illuminating, only that it is illuminating. This is the analogy for the absolute, the "one" in Plotinus. This True God simply sees things from the standpoint of Eternity and DOES NOT interfere (unlike the Christian God which judges man). The highest God is independent of merit, right, or wrong, it is itself and nothing else, even the thought of rightness or wrongness is absurd, as there would be no subject/object duality, only one essence, not even an essence, but simply the one, unable to be spoken, but easy to be understood.

To the second poster, the New Thought vs. Buddhism angle would simply mean that true Nirvana is not having any more desires, to find fulfillment in the One, at first mentally speaking, then metaphysically speaking, then mystically, finally realistically speaking. New Thought, I'm not sure what that is, but I'm guessing it has something to do with "the Secret?" Where you wish for things? In other words, Materialism, the "dead end" philosophy. Action to a point, whereas metaphysics is circular in nature. Not just "meta" as in above, similar to meta fiction being fiction about fiction, meta physics is the physics of physics, the fact that objects can be manipulated by forces. That is more along the lines of manipulation of material, and to do this in the most extreme way, would be to transcend material, so this subject as also been called metapsychology, since the label is not important, it starts to become simply the truth. But there is a type of system behind it, past philosophers, ideas that are universal or memorable. And every one is a student and teacher along this journey, but I know that this path is a righteous and joyous path, otherwise all the intellectualizing in the world could not save it.

posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 08:58 AM
reply to post by Merle8

To Merle8:

You asked for me to make up a system. Here is one you can try.

First, a forewarning, this system is only concerned with meditation, and not gaining a physical objective. The physical objective will come naturally once the mind is clear.

1. Sit comfortably and close your eyes.

This is the only bodily-physical act you have to do. It positions the body to be ready for total concentration, so this can not be done while driving, etc. Closing the eyes is important because it blocks the outward vision to be able to concentrate more on the inward vision.

2. Empty the mind

Stop thinking. Stop thinking about anything. Let the mind be empty. Breath out, or relax.

3. Direct the mind upwards towards the highest absolute

This is a quasi-physical, mental-physical action, which is why the subject is called metaphysics. By directing the mind away from physical things (just as you did on a physical level by closing your eyes), you will now direct your mind away from the physical perturbations and towards the mind itself.

4. Gain knowledge of the Self

At step #3, you will be in a mental state, not out of body, just less concentrated with body. But it will feel like it is slightly out of body. Sense that higher "you" which is looking down at you right now, but always seems to be out of sight. By understanding that this higher self is the highest existence of any physical system, the self beyond your thoughts and feelings, then you can start to understand that self in relationship to other physical things. This doesn't mean that you are everything, because there are other "selves" inhabiting other bodies, but rather that your soul/personal ego is independent of everything, and above everything. Your true self is liberation from the material world.

#5. Enjoy it.

Why enjoy it? Because it is a way to clear the mind. To understand your true nature, independent of body. How can your body be you when you are different at each age of your life? When your physical body changes every seven years? When you know at some point you will be no more? How can you view that as permanent? It can't be done. But by knowing your spirit, seeing it inwardly, you know the real essence of the world, behind every action there is this self, designated to some body, occurring as a finite moment, but always, there is this true consciousness that connects everything into a singular unity, which your true self is identical to, and the more you believe in this link, the more your mind will start to open up to eternal happiness.

posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 11:01 PM
A question. Would you consider that "divine spark of reason" to be analogous to the liberated mind? Or would that be a step removed, so to speak? In other words, is the highest, simplest awareness reflected perfectly in an enlightened being, or is that particular state too refined to be expressed in a finite, worldly "experience?" I ask because your explanation seems to imply that being truly beyond form, to the point of illuminating without reference to what is being illuminated, this spark would be lacking the qualities usually associated with enlightenment. Actually besides illumination itself, it would be lacking qualities altogether.
For example, were there not some identification with form, could there be a Bodhisattva? Or even an experience of bliss? Perhaps the latter, if bliss were somehow analogous itself with illumination. But compassion? Not really understanding how that would work.
Fascinating discussion.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 12:06 AM
reply to post by joechip

The single attribute of the absolute would be its absoluteness, just as the single attribute of light is illumination, or space its immateriality. The absolute is absolutely simplex, absolutely highest because it is the origin of all other things, and the most simplex because it is its self alone and nothing else. It creates because of its abundance through its own overflowing attribute of being perfect.

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