The Two-Party System: Two sides of the same coin

reply to post by airspoon


Great post, it's about time your average joe realised this.
What they give us is the illusion of choice...or 2 flavours of the same s*#t!!

reply to post by airspoon


Airspoon,

What a GREAT post! I'm happy for once, no one will post the statement that you are bashing Obama.

I get very frustrated with comments like that. Once everyone realizes that it's the same old, same old… we will have more constructive posts here.

Thanks!
Seti

That's basically what I think. Both parties are on the side of the same elite and big money interests, who are the ones most represented in Washington by lawyers and lobbyists.

I think Harry Truman once said that only about 15% of the people were actually represented in Washington, and I always liked old Harry. He was an honest guy who spent a lot a years in politics and was not rich when he left office.

The Republicans are just a little more blatant about representing these big money interests, if you follow their voting record at all as opposed to their PR--but these same interests also get most of everything they want out of the Dems.

In my opinion, American politics is just a big, televised corporate hoo-ha with a choice between Coke and Pepsi or Exxon and BP.

Part of the problem is that most if not all of our Political types come from Corporate America.

1. Eliminate the revolving door between Government and Corporate America.

2. Term Limits ?

How long has John McCain and had Ted Kennedy been in office ?
When holding offices for decades they become not only politicians but instead become another form of Royalty.

This caste system only Further perpetuating a transparent layer and ruling/working class distinction between our legislators and their constituents.

Which is another facit

We often speak of waking up Americans here on ATS.
Or at least some of us do.

The Dumbing Down of Americans is a sad reality and is the root cause as to how we have ended up with such a corrupt materialism based system of leadership.

This being rooted deeply in our educational system that in actuality being a conditioning mechanism has created this Hegelian based system of control that stifles individual initiative and trains children to become mindless zombies only aspiring to following orders and to serving the state.

And inevitably doing their JOB.

So until we can educate Americans to begin to see the forest from the trees as well as understanding how we got here.

We can only then begin to make headway in collaboratively resolving the problems inherent to our system.....


Another very good book:

The Dumbing Down of America, by Charlotte Iserbyt.

YouTube Video:

www.youtube.com...

I've been saying for years that we need two term limits at all levels of government, not just President and Governor.

In conjunction with this, I would like to see a total ban on any candidate (including Governor and President) from saying WHICH party they represent in either news broadcasts or political ads or conventions.

This would FORCE the American public to listen to where each candidate stands on ALL the issues, and will stop the cycle where most Americans blindly vote either Republican or Democrat EVERY single time, regardless of the morals, ethics, or position standings of the candidates running.

If we actually had to listen to the issues, do you think someone like Sarah Palin would have ever seen the light of day?

This would also have the result that the candidates would have to KNOW the issues, not just run as the "Republican" or "Democrat" candidate, and the electorate would be much more educated going in to vote.

If there were two term limits, it would eliminate the idea of people learning which candidates are representing which parties, as they would be changing constantly.

It's also time that running for office was done through a pursuit of wanting to give back to your community, not in a pursuit of riches. If they cut out permanent pensions for all politicians, as well as banned ALL lobbyists, we would get people running who were more in tune with doing this as a public service, not to make an easy buck.

I think if we had people run without representing parties, we would see some VERY surprising results come election time.

Reply to post by airspoon

Ha so right... It is the typical pincer move...hit them hard on the left..hit them hard on the right and we shall take the middle road. Have been doing some research on US history..(Back story, had a friend get two tickets from the same cop in a span of 15min. California stop then speeding..65 in a 40.. However the cop had been following since the first stop sign violation, no radar. My friend is not stupid seemed fishy she would be going SO fast with the same cop right behind her... But that's life. At any rate she works for a tax attorney who told her she should sign everything with 'ucc 1-308 next to it, google that one) Turns out the U.S. Is classified as a corporation. - I believe it was 1871 when the 41st congress (from memory) voted to end the republic, and establish the US CORP. With the passage of the 14th amendment came a new distinction 'the U.S. Citizen' as states were not recognizing freed slaves as citizens, the FED stepped in to provide protections. However, most people at the time were citizens of the state in which they resided or 'non-resident aliens' and they did not fall under Federal jurisdiction. The 10 sq. Mile area of D.C. Is federal territory, as well as any land they directly own I.e. National parks, military bases, puerto rico etc. As far as I am understanding things we more or less 'concede' to being U.S. Citizens by means of contract. One doesn't need a birth certificate to be born much less a license to marry. In applying for such things we ask the state for permission and turn over our sovreign rights for privlages. We talk about having constituional rights but according to the supreme court the constituiton doesn't apply to individuals because they were not party to the contract. It is more or less a 'trust' and we are the 'beneficiaries'. I guess all I am trying to say is, we live in an illusionary world where we believe we have certain inalienable rights but really we enjoy 'privlages' that can be taken away anytime TPTB decide. Police, Judges, congressmen, democratic, republican, are officers of the state. Their duty is to uphold the 'corporate charter' verses the organic constitution. So protecting an indiviuals rights is antithem to protecting the corporation. It is a conflict of interest. With all the money floating around it is easy to see why many men and women could rationalize trampling sovreignty. Who actually wants to work hard for what they have when you can 'serve' and get paid. Its sadly comical, when a builder fails he gets fired. When a legislator fails... We need more legislators to fix it. .more money too. In closing I think this is why we have a two party system. People will not accept dictatorship nor domination, but if you give them 'options' they will choose, all by themselves, between the two evils instead of fighting for what's right, its just not one of the options. ( Sorry if this post was a bit rambly, wadding through so much info. Check out greatirshoax.com)


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Excellent post OP.

The choices the people are provided with are acceptable to those who hold true power. They are vetted and delivered. Therefore they are meaningless choices. However, these choices fulfil the need of the individual to participate in society. They provide the illusion of meaningful participation through voting.

Originally posted by babybunnies
I've been saying for years that we need two term limits at all levels of government, not just President and Governor.

Let's make that one term of four years, maximum for any elected office. And if we don't like the office, we can remove that by vote too.

Airspoon are you not the person who posted a thread on Disclosure? And then that thread got removed to the Hoax section?

The real issue is this country has fallen for the illusion of a democratically elected government. The Bilderburg Group is truly running the show, individual governments are just something to occupy your mind, like voting on American idol. We are on a path that will lead to the failure of this country, not because of dumb republicans or dumb democrats, but by a crafted plan created by the global elite. The north american union will be a reality shortly.

reply to post by cyberjedi

Airspoon are you not the person who posted a thread on Disclosure? And then that thread got removed to the Hoax section?

Not that it's relevant to this thread but no, I have never posted a thread on disclosure, nor have I ever posted a hoax. What's your point/goal/agenda here?

--airspoon

[edit on 2-9-2010 by airspoon]

Very good thread! I have been saying this very same thing for years but few listen. The 2 party system is nothing more than a 'feel good for voting' illusion. These guys are all the same....wanting the power and money, and they will NEVER allow another party to enter the fray. Why should they give up the power over all of us that they already have? They won't sadly to say. I don't know all the answers that we need to take back our freedom of a REAL choice but 2 term limits for ALL elected officials is a start as they get way to comfortable in the job when they are there longer. I can point to several Representatives in California ( Pete Stark for one, as seen on youtube) that don't bother to listen to their constituents and think that they know what is better for us poor idiots....it is time for a real change to start at the grassroots level.

The two parties are the same. On the surface they appear different because each party uses different groups of people to achieve their goals. In the end they could care less about the people they use. They only want your votes and will tell you anything to get them.

Originally posted by pirhanna

Originally posted by babybunnies
I've been saying for years that we need two term limits at all levels of government, not just President and Governor.

Let's make that one term of four years, maximum for any elected office. And if we don't like the office, we can remove that by vote too.

You currently DO have the option to remove an official from office by vote - it's called IMPEACHMENT.

It would be complete chaos if there was a citizen vote everytime someone asked for someone to be removed from office. You'd all be voting several times a day.

reply to post by airspoon


Preaching to the choir Brother.
We need to start a new party that cannot go the way of the Tea/beck/palin Party.
Say the ATS Party.

reply to post by g146541


Check out this thread, titled "
Debut of the Truth Party". I think it may just be right up your ally.

--airspoon


Edit to add: That's weird, I can't get it to go on the one line, lol




[edit on 2-9-2010 by airspoon]

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

If you agree with this FF, it's quite obvious why this country has ended up as it has.

I've been saying it for a long time now, politics is a puppet show to distract the rubes. Seems obvious but a lot of people buy into the BS. What really makes me sick is instead of a popular movement coming up with a viable alternative party we have the tea party. The masters want to convince us that their is no alternative but the radical. I get the impression that most people are having such a hard time at staying afloat that they're not up to demonstrating or protesting or anything. The PsyOps branch of the Pentagon is really starting to show their worth. I'd rather be plugged into the Matrix than be just another zombie american voter. Sometimes I post on Huffington and there are an army of zombies over there. They defend the party line dogma with the ferocity of a pit bull and argue endlessly with anyone capable of criticizing their party's programs or politicians. Politics is a joke, but there's nothing really funny about it.

But there is no such thing as a 'Left' wing in the USA.

A Democrat is NOT a Left Winger.

He is merely slightly LESS right wing than a Republican.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Remove all lobbyists from Washington.
Didn't Obama promise to do that?
I have refused to belong to a "party" so no one is interested in my vote, they call my husband and he gets letters he is a registered democrat. My sister and her husband use the system so they don't have to think..."we always vote Republican". I have said I want to vote for an American as an American thats it.
Unfortuanatly i think most of the USA want to use the whole political system as a form of entertainment...your team vrs our team. They get into it just like a sport. They lay out their big signs and bumper stickers and yell at each other never really caring who they are voting for as people just as labels! I makes me sick.
Also unfortunate is that i think we are to late here, we the people no longer have any control. The patriot act finished it off. We have no voice, our news is not free, our voice will make no difference, we now live with similar to nazi SS. It is US and THEY and THEY the gov is in charge totaly, they can take your home for no reason and give it to someone else they can lock you up..you name it. With the electorial vote system your vote truely does not count as when Bush Jr was "elected' an electorial voter actualy went against his states popular vote (your vote)I read..they have the right to do that..thus your vote is meaningless.
At this point the only way out of the huge fat burden of state and federal gov would be to start over from scratch.
An example of gov state lvl working today..my husband decided to sell beer and wine at his seafood restaurant in Oregon. The application took forever and he had to pass a 4 hr test. Months later still trying to get state permission, we live in CA yet even though i don't work at the restaurant it is not in my name I live in CA and OR is not a state that auto shares husband and wife property, the Or state sent ME a letter insisiting i give them my "background" all my info and sign numerous papers, I called and ask WHY! They said "you might benifit from the income from the liquor sales we need to know about who benifits" and the guy talked at me like he owned the state liquor himself and he might as well, he personaly decides who sells and who doesn't and he can revoke at any time.
In our area CA has nearly half the town on welfare producing babies. You see most young and very young around town all day pushing double babie carriages because they have two or three kids already and when they need more money they have another one. It is sad as the kids grow up and often get on welfare and for some reason all these child parents seem to afford cigarettes and puff them in babies face all day.
NOT a good system for anyone!