So what do you guys make of John the Baptist regarding the Templars, Leonardo and Freemasonry?
Some people believe that the priory of sion is a real group while many think it is a complete hoax. It does appear that Leonardo DaVinci was into the
Occult and had a great hatred for the church, but had to conceal his feelings and only give hints of it into his paintings. Is Leonardo trying to
tell us something about John the Baptist?
If so, what should we be discussing about John the Baptist? I honestly do not know much about him and would like to know why he could be seen as such
an important figure to the Templars and even Freemasonry? Why were the first Freemasons called John's Brothers? Is this common knowledge or a hoax
in itself?
If the early Freemasons were infact called John's Brothers, maybe the supposed severed head was John the Baptist? There are so many questions that
need answers! Damn those tricky Templars!
John's Brother - John the Baptist - Freemasons, Templars & Leonardo DaVinci, page 1
Topic started on 1-9-2010 @ 05:05 PM by BeastMaster2012
Hello all! I have been studying and researching the freemasons ever since i read Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code and their history and background
fascinates me.
After reading a few books i am starting to see an important figure to freemasonry and also the Knights Templars - John the Baptist. It almost seems like the Templars and Masons hold John the Baptist as a more important person than Jesus the Christ.
Today i came across something very interesting that is not discussed anywhere on the internet. I was reading an old Freemason Encyclopedia and found this mention when i tried to look up John the Baptist, in which there was nothing there:
John's Brothers
In the Charter of Cologne, it is said that before the year 1440 the society of Freemasons was known by no other name than that of John's Brothers (Joannaeorum fratrum); that they then began to be called at Valenciennes, Free and Accepted Masons; and that at that time, in some parts of Flanders, by the assistance and riches of the brotherhood, the first hospitals were erected for the relief of such as were afflicted with Saint Anthony's fire. In another part of the Charter it is said that the authors of the associations were called Brothers consecrated to John, or in Latin fratres Joanni Sacros, because "they followed the example and imitation of John the Baptist."
This is the main subject i want to discuss. In France it appears that freemasons were followers of John the Baptist! What is the Charter of Cologne? It appears to be a document from the 1600's that some think is a forgery.
Here is some more information on John the Baptist throughout modern history:
Leonardo Da Vinci & John the Baptist
There are reports that Leonardo Da Vinci was also a huge fan of John the Baptist. There are people that also believe that Leonardo was a grand master ofof the Priory of Sion, in which Leonardo left many clues in his paintings (you would be familiar with this if you have read or watched the Davinci Code). In fact, Davinci's last painting was of John the Baptist, in which it shows him making the famous "John Gesture". This gesture can be seen in a few of his paintings, most notably The Last Supper.
Adoration of the Magi
You can find the "John Gesture" in his unfinished painting "Adoration of the Magi". This painting shows people worshiping baby Jesus in the foreground, but right behind the Virgin Mary and Jesus you can see that the focal point is the single tree. Right at the base of the true is a person whom we can assume is John the Baptist making the "John Gesture". All around John are young and good looking people while all the followers and worshipers of Jesus look old and almost like ghosts. People also believe that Da Vinci included himself in the painting, which he was known to do. Leonardo is on the very bottom right looking away from Jesus. When he put himself in the Last Supper he also is facing away from Jesus.
More information on the Adoration of the Magi
High quality image of Adoration of the Magi
Virgin of the Rocks
Leonardo's "Virgin of the Rocks" is another strange painting that shows Jesus, the Virgin Mary and John the Baptist with an Angel. There were two paintings made, the original is in the Louvre and the second painting which may or may not have been done by DaVinci is in London currently. The painting shows the Virgin Mary sitting and holding onto a baby whom is praying to the other baby. What makes this strange is that you would assume that the Virgin Mary would be holding her own son, Jesus, and the angel would be holding and protecting John the Baptist. Since there aren't name plates to tell you who is who you have to decide for yourself who each baby is. I would assume that the baby being held by Mary is Jesus, and that would mean Jesus is worshiping John the Baptist. The strangest thing about the painting is the fact that the original version had the angel protecting "John the Baptist" giving the John Gesture right over the baby we would assume to be "John the Baptist" but it points to what we would assume to be Jesus. This makes things very confusing. Also, Mary is making a VERY strange gesture with her left hand. It almost looks like she is holding an invisible head while the angel makes the John Gesture right at the neck of the invisible head. Could this be a hint at the beheading of John the Baptist? This is a very interesting painting with many areas to consider.
More information on the Virgin of the Rocks
High quality image of Virgin of the Rocks - Louvre Version - First Painting
High quality image of Virgin of the Rocks - London Version - Second Painting
Recent article on the painting - july 14th-2010
The Last Supper
And lastly you will notice in the Last Supper a figure to the left of Jesus making the John Gesture. The figure is very strange, it almost appears he is lunging out towards Jesus and shoving his finger in his face. There are obviously other strange things in the painting which i will not get into, mainly the Mary/John controversy and Peter holding a knife and threatening mary/john.
More information on The Last Supper
High Quality image of the Last Supper
The Knights Templar & The Worshiping of a Severed Head
There are reports that when in France many of the Templars were rounded up and interrogated that many templars admitted to worshiping a severed head. No one knows if this is true or not or which head it was, but there is a theory that it was John the Baptist's head or a fake head of his:
Templar History
St. John the Baptist & Knights Templars - John the Baptist head at Amiens Cathedral
Freemason's York Rite & the Head of John the Baptist
The freemasons also have an interesting connection with John the Baptist in the York Rite degrees. I do not want to get into this, others can, but it is very interesting and can be found by doing some google searches. If you look this up it seems to be connected with the Knights Templars heavily.
Google search for John the Baptist & York Rite
[edit on 1-9-2010 by BeastMaster2012]
After reading a few books i am starting to see an important figure to freemasonry and also the Knights Templars - John the Baptist. It almost seems like the Templars and Masons hold John the Baptist as a more important person than Jesus the Christ.
Today i came across something very interesting that is not discussed anywhere on the internet. I was reading an old Freemason Encyclopedia and found this mention when i tried to look up John the Baptist, in which there was nothing there:
John's Brothers
In the Charter of Cologne, it is said that before the year 1440 the society of Freemasons was known by no other name than that of John's Brothers (Joannaeorum fratrum); that they then began to be called at Valenciennes, Free and Accepted Masons; and that at that time, in some parts of Flanders, by the assistance and riches of the brotherhood, the first hospitals were erected for the relief of such as were afflicted with Saint Anthony's fire. In another part of the Charter it is said that the authors of the associations were called Brothers consecrated to John, or in Latin fratres Joanni Sacros, because "they followed the example and imitation of John the Baptist."
This is the main subject i want to discuss. In France it appears that freemasons were followers of John the Baptist! What is the Charter of Cologne? It appears to be a document from the 1600's that some think is a forgery.
Here is some more information on John the Baptist throughout modern history:
Leonardo Da Vinci & John the Baptist
There are reports that Leonardo Da Vinci was also a huge fan of John the Baptist. There are people that also believe that Leonardo was a grand master ofof the Priory of Sion, in which Leonardo left many clues in his paintings (you would be familiar with this if you have read or watched the Davinci Code). In fact, Davinci's last painting was of John the Baptist, in which it shows him making the famous "John Gesture". This gesture can be seen in a few of his paintings, most notably The Last Supper.
Adoration of the Magi
You can find the "John Gesture" in his unfinished painting "Adoration of the Magi". This painting shows people worshiping baby Jesus in the foreground, but right behind the Virgin Mary and Jesus you can see that the focal point is the single tree. Right at the base of the true is a person whom we can assume is John the Baptist making the "John Gesture". All around John are young and good looking people while all the followers and worshipers of Jesus look old and almost like ghosts. People also believe that Da Vinci included himself in the painting, which he was known to do. Leonardo is on the very bottom right looking away from Jesus. When he put himself in the Last Supper he also is facing away from Jesus.
More information on the Adoration of the Magi
High quality image of Adoration of the Magi
Virgin of the Rocks
Leonardo's "Virgin of the Rocks" is another strange painting that shows Jesus, the Virgin Mary and John the Baptist with an Angel. There were two paintings made, the original is in the Louvre and the second painting which may or may not have been done by DaVinci is in London currently. The painting shows the Virgin Mary sitting and holding onto a baby whom is praying to the other baby. What makes this strange is that you would assume that the Virgin Mary would be holding her own son, Jesus, and the angel would be holding and protecting John the Baptist. Since there aren't name plates to tell you who is who you have to decide for yourself who each baby is. I would assume that the baby being held by Mary is Jesus, and that would mean Jesus is worshiping John the Baptist. The strangest thing about the painting is the fact that the original version had the angel protecting "John the Baptist" giving the John Gesture right over the baby we would assume to be "John the Baptist" but it points to what we would assume to be Jesus. This makes things very confusing. Also, Mary is making a VERY strange gesture with her left hand. It almost looks like she is holding an invisible head while the angel makes the John Gesture right at the neck of the invisible head. Could this be a hint at the beheading of John the Baptist? This is a very interesting painting with many areas to consider.
More information on the Virgin of the Rocks
High quality image of Virgin of the Rocks - Louvre Version - First Painting
High quality image of Virgin of the Rocks - London Version - Second Painting
Recent article on the painting - july 14th-2010
The Last Supper
And lastly you will notice in the Last Supper a figure to the left of Jesus making the John Gesture. The figure is very strange, it almost appears he is lunging out towards Jesus and shoving his finger in his face. There are obviously other strange things in the painting which i will not get into, mainly the Mary/John controversy and Peter holding a knife and threatening mary/john.
More information on The Last Supper
High Quality image of the Last Supper
The Knights Templar & The Worshiping of a Severed Head
There are reports that when in France many of the Templars were rounded up and interrogated that many templars admitted to worshiping a severed head. No one knows if this is true or not or which head it was, but there is a theory that it was John the Baptist's head or a fake head of his:
Templar History
Saint John the Baptist, who was beheaded, is said also to be the source of Templar idolatry. As ludicrous as this may at first seem, it is commonly known that several bogus John the Baptist heads were around during this time. Could the Templars have possessed one of these heads? It is possible, as the Templars were said to possess many of the religious relics of the time. As supposed Poor Knights of Christ it is quite possible that the head of St. John the Baptist would be an object of devotion and guidance since his feast was to be celebrated by the command of the Templar Rule of Order.
St. John the Baptist & Knights Templars - John the Baptist head at Amiens Cathedral
Freemason's York Rite & the Head of John the Baptist
The freemasons also have an interesting connection with John the Baptist in the York Rite degrees. I do not want to get into this, others can, but it is very interesting and can be found by doing some google searches. If you look this up it seems to be connected with the Knights Templars heavily.
Google search for John the Baptist & York Rite
[edit on 1-9-2010 by BeastMaster2012]
edit on 19/1/2012 by Sauron because: - internal quote tags to external quote tags
reply posted on 1-9-2010 @ 05:20 PM by BeastMaster2012
reply to post by humbleseeker
I didn't know that about the lodges. I wonder if it's the John the Apostle that the Knights Hospitalars followed or John the Baptist.
Interesting that in Da Vinci's Last Supper John the Apostle could be seen as Mary Magdalene, which i believe it's Mary and not John.
I didn't know that about the lodges. I wonder if it's the John the Apostle that the Knights Hospitalars followed or John the Baptist.
Interesting that in Da Vinci's Last Supper John the Apostle could be seen as Mary Magdalene, which i believe it's Mary and not John.
I can not explain ritual on the net, but I do wonder how ancient stone masons formed
the rites that are within Freemasonry. reply posted on 1-9-2010 @ 06:44 PM by Onboard2
Sir, you've completely missed some details in Virgin of the Rocks. The one baby is not praying to the other. He's showing that there are TWO of
them; Two hands entwined. The one on the left is Jesus, because he's holding a cross in one of the paintings. The one on the right is holding up TWO
fingers, meaning there are TWO of us. Mary is emcompassing both children and her middle section is highlighted and showing you something. Notice the
'shape' of the blanket. They BOTH came from her womb.
en.wikipedia.org...
(To be technical, Jesus was born in a grotto. At that time, a grotto was a cave and Mary in is a cave with monoliths above. This is a specific location.)
I posted more in another thread. I'll see, if I can find it. I was very disappointed when I was watching the documentary on the Da Vinci Code. When this painting was shown, the one twin is completely left out.
I could say more concerning The Last Supper. The figure to Jesus' right gets his head chopped off. See the hand?
en.wikipedia.org...:%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg
The woman is standing over the left of Jesus. She WAS holding a baby.
I think the skull shown in other paintings does tie in with the Templars.
[edit on 1-9-2010 by Onboard2]
[edit on 2-9-2010 by Onboard2]
en.wikipedia.org...
(To be technical, Jesus was born in a grotto. At that time, a grotto was a cave and Mary in is a cave with monoliths above. This is a specific location.)
I posted more in another thread. I'll see, if I can find it. I was very disappointed when I was watching the documentary on the Da Vinci Code. When this painting was shown, the one twin is completely left out.
I could say more concerning The Last Supper. The figure to Jesus' right gets his head chopped off. See the hand?
en.wikipedia.org...:%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg
The woman is standing over the left of Jesus. She WAS holding a baby.
I think the skull shown in other paintings does tie in with the Templars.
[edit on 1-9-2010 by Onboard2]
[edit on 2-9-2010 by Onboard2]
reply posted on 1-9-2010 @ 11:52 PM by Onboard2
"Poussin and Teniers hold the key"
In the second painting I think there is the 'John' symbol again. There is a skull on the desk with the staff pointing toward Rosslyn Chapel.
www.fortunecity.com...
In the second painting I think there is the 'John' symbol again. There is a skull on the desk with the staff pointing toward Rosslyn Chapel.
www.fortunecity.com...
reply posted on 2-9-2010 @ 12:11 AM by Onboard2
Well, here it is again.
In this painting by Poussin, St. Elizabeth is making the symbol. The babies look identical.
Click on this painting to enlarge. (Sorry, don't know how to embed it myself.)
www.lib-art.com...
There's more than one version of this painting.
[edit on 2-9-2010 by Onboard2]
In this painting by Poussin, St. Elizabeth is making the symbol. The babies look identical.
Click on this painting to enlarge. (Sorry, don't know how to embed it myself.)
www.lib-art.com...
There's more than one version of this painting.
[edit on 2-9-2010 by Onboard2]
reply posted on 2-9-2010 @ 12:51 AM by InvisibleAlbatross
Can anyone explain why a priest would install a statue like this, with the words, "This place is terrible" in a church?
www.trekearth.com...
www.trekearth.com...
reply posted on 2-9-2010 @ 02:00 AM by KSigMason
A very interesting read. The patron saints of Freemasonry are St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist. At least under the Grand Lodge of
Idaho, all Lodges must have their formal installations done before St. John's Day (December 27th).
There is some fascinating reads out there about St. John the Baptist and how some sects believe he was the true Messiah and not Jesus the Christ. Did the Crusading Templars find something of this nature? Who knows? I am currently in the midst of some training so my free time is very small and I will have to fully read the rest of your OP later, but I am very intrigued by it.
Also, the Red Cross of Constantine (a York Rite invitation only appendant body) is officially called "The Masonic and Military Order of the Red Cross of Constantine and the Orders of the Holy Sepulchre and St. John the Evangelist". Although the Orders of Holy Speulchre and St. John the Evangelist are called Appendant Orders. For further info on Appendant York Rite bodies see here.
There is some fascinating reads out there about St. John the Baptist and how some sects believe he was the true Messiah and not Jesus the Christ. Did the Crusading Templars find something of this nature? Who knows? I am currently in the midst of some training so my free time is very small and I will have to fully read the rest of your OP later, but I am very intrigued by it.
Also, the Red Cross of Constantine (a York Rite invitation only appendant body) is officially called "The Masonic and Military Order of the Red Cross of Constantine and the Orders of the Holy Sepulchre and St. John the Evangelist". Although the Orders of Holy Speulchre and St. John the Evangelist are called Appendant Orders. For further info on Appendant York Rite bodies see here.
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