VIDEO: Obama and Biden saying the troop surge wouldn't work. Now they take credit for its success.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You're being either closed minded or very disingenuous if you watch them say the surge would fail, then say the surge succeeded, then that credit for the 'successes' in Iraq, but you say that technically they never said 'surge' they only said 'successes'. Its like you're playing a lawyer's game of 'technically speaking'......... or Bill Clinton's famous 'it depends what the definition of is is'. They say the surge was a success, and the surge a huge reason why the situation in Iraq is so much better now, then they take credit for the success in Iraq. Of course they're taking credit for the surge and Iraq. Don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by johnny2127

If you want to view those fighting against the US as freedom fighters, thats your choice. Of course you're neglecting to mention that they aren't all Iraqi, and many from neighboring countries, but that your choice also.


[edit on 1-9-2010 by johnny2127]

My oath they are from neighboring countries.
And all around the rest of the entire world as well.

In fact just about every nation on the planet is now pouring aid into Iraq.
This massive world aid is going straight to the insurgents.

INTERNATIONAL AID is what is putting Americans into body bags in Iraq.

It is precisely why the most powerful military nation on Earth, with 150, 000+ front line battle troops, and all the latest technology, weaponry, hardware and intelligence, has not been able to beat a few civilian insurgents in seven years of warfare. And never will.

This is not just the American military against the innocent Iraqi people.
If it was, you would have rolled up the entire country in only a few days.

It is the American military fighting against the combined resources of the entire world, which is why you are not winning, and will never win in Iraq.

Now you see, this is America against the resources of the entire world in Iraq.

You (Americans) are the good guys, and the the other six billion people on this planet (us) are all terrorists, insurgents, and all deserve to die.

We see America as the aggressor, and we will back your Iraqi victims with whatever it takes, and WE (the entire world) are winning in Iraq.

When You finally pull out of Iraq, you will have been beaten not by just a few rag head civilians, very brave they might be, but by the resources, moral backing, and good will of every other nation on the planet.

Just the fact that more US military are now suiciding in Iraq than are being killed directly by insurgents, should tell you that something is desperately wrong.

Winners, and people that know they are fighting for a just and moral cause, don't suicide, no matter how tough the fighting gets.
Think about it.........

[edit on 2/9/2010 by Silver Shadow]

Originally posted by johnny2127

You're being either closed minded or very disingenuous if you watch them say the surge would fail, then say the surge succeeded, then that credit for the 'successes' in Iraq, but you say that technically they never said 'surge' they only said 'successes'.

I've watched all of the videos and still have yet to see anything that points to the administration taking credit for the surge. Even to say they take credit for the successes is a stretch, really. The fact is that this administration enacted a rather large shift in management and focus when they took office, and that has had an effect on the outcome of the war. This much is irrefutable.

Another fact, and one that you yourself would be naive to not admit, is that the actions of the anti-war senators under the Bush administration influenced the policies of GWB and his ilk. Were there no opposition to the war, I strongly suspect that there would have been more money spent, more lives lost, and more time spent in Iraq. This is probably the ONLY way our dual-party system shows any sort of functionality - the opposition does have an influence on policy.

Also, please note the overall tone and presentation done by Fox in your last video. Taking the statements of the politicians in their video on their own, they appear rather benign. It is only when the spin-doctor reporter gets involved that it starts to paint a different picture.....and one that they are deliberately trying to paint, at that.

[edit on 9/2/2010 by atlguy]

Originally posted by atlguy
I've watched all of the videos and still have yet to see anything that points to the administration taking credit for the surge.

You have to read between the lines, make huge assumptions and then listen to FOX news commentators, then, if you try real hard, you'll hear it. Squint, put your hands over your ears and sing, "la, la, la, la, la" and you'll hear it.

Kind of like this:

ATS is on FACEbook.
FACEbook is a very successful network.
ATS is responsible for FACEbook's success!

Also, please note the overall tone and presentation done by Fox in your last video.

Oh, no! If we start looking beyond what the pundits want us to hear, we'll get very confused.

[edit on 9/2/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The Faux News stuff is ridiculous and they draw some of the weirdest lines of congruity that would be laughed off even in tinfoil hat private message boards.

However, you can go to the PBS site and look up the video of the interview on the NewsHour with Vice President Biden and hear him make the statement "Even the President's speech acknowledged President Bush's contribution". He also went on to mention that he didn't want to get into "litigating the past" when the interviewer was asking from very pertinent and tough questions.

So there you go. You don't have to go to Fox News to know that Obama and Biden are neo-con hawks when it comes to foreign policy. This usually happens when you have a guy who is Commander in Chief with little to no military experience. Said President, after election, will want to come across as looking tough, which is exactly what you are going to get here and in the future.

Originally posted by justinsweatt
However, you can go to the PBS site and look up the video of the interview on the NewsHour with Vice President Biden and hear him make the statement "Even the President's speech acknowledged President Bush's contribution".

I'm not arguing that. I'm not arguing ANY point, in fact, except the one where this administration supposedly took credit for the surge's success, as the title states. That's the ONLY issue I have here. So trying to argue any other point with me is moot.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Not to split hairs here but when Biden says "let's not litigate what was said in the past", one could pretty much assume that they are definitely going to take credit for the Surge. Then there was that effing Neo-Con speech Obama gave.

reply to post by justinsweatt


Hey, one could assume anything. And that's my point here. Lots of assuming going on, but no proof. Nowhere does Obama or Biden take credit for the surge. You can assume all you want, but that doesn't make it true.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


By that same circular bury-yr-head-in-the-sand argument, it could go the other way as well. Hey, if you're cool with it, great. I think it's totally ridiculous but hey, to each their own, right?

reply to post by johnny2127


This is nothing more than hot air spewed out that all sides do. If it was a Democratic President who surged troops you would see McCain and the rest of them out there on the Sunday morning shows saying the same thing.

I take what all sides say with a grain of salt, and if I want the the real truth I look elsewhere and fact check. Pure partisan politics and it has gotten much, much worse in recent years.

Edit: Also it was the "Sunni Awakening" that quelled the sectarian violence and that is just a loaded word, their awakening was us paying them off with dollars and gold. That is what did it mostly, not the surge..

[edit on 2-9-2010 by frimilden]

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Not to split hairs here but when Biden says "let's not litigate what was said in the past", one could pretty much assume that they are definitely going to take credit for the Surge.

How so? To me, that statement says: "Let's not debate something that's already in the history books...". In other words - something that is already fact. It in no-way points to them saying that they take credit.

Look at the statement without any preconceived notions and it is pretty clear.

reply to post by atlguy


I would disagree. To me it's Biden dodging the "gotcha" bullet whenever he and Obama were talking about how the Surge was a crazy idea from the floor of the Senate. Again, it's pretty open to interpretation.

My real feeling on all of this, which now is a moot point, is we wouldn't even be having this conversation if we had just stayed the hell out of there in the first place.

I think people would be down for Biden and Obama saying, "hey you know what? Looks like we might have been a little wrong about this" and I think most people would give them a break if that was what was said.

Originally posted by frimilden
reply to post by johnny2127

 

This is nothing more than hot air spewed out that all sides do. If it was a Democratic President who surged troops you would see McCain and the rest of them out there on the Sunday morning shows saying the same thing.

I take what all sides say with a grain of salt, and if I want the the real truth I look elsewhere and fact check. Pure partisan politics and it has gotten much, much worse in recent years.

Edit: Also it was the "Sunni Awakening" that quelled the sectarian violence and that is just a loaded word, their awakening was us paying them off with dollars and gold. That is what did it mostly, not the surge..

[edit on 2-9-2010 by frimilden]

True. And if it was a Republican that did exactly the same thing it would be just as wrong. Difference is, those on here defending Obama would be screaming bloody murder. Hypocrisy abounds.......

With all respect you need to put your money where your mouth is. Who are you to pronounce judgment and point the finger claiming "hypocrisy"? If you don't like what's going on you need to offer solutions instead of ranting and raving . Or leave the country. But you think America is perfect don't you?