Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl

reply to post by illusive man


Actually I was responding to Zorgons post because it brought back that memory. I'm unsure of your age, but Zorgons post held unstated info in it.

Often during Vietnam, soldiers who had to shoot children or women to save their own lives were lied about and demonized by the radicals that caused me to quit the Peace Movement when I realized how disingenuous some of the leaders were. It was very much like this discussion here.

For instance those who are and were part of the Weather Underground engaged in lots of lies against soldiers. I'm ashamed of the part I unknowingly played in it. Lots of us ran away from it when the spitting on soldiers and lies started. We just wanted peace; the radicals were a bunch of phony Anarchists who wanted to blow people up. You know, the Saul Alinsky bunch who wanted and still want to overthrow the government. That's another topic though.

My real opinion here is that this was a completely unnecessary atrocity. I also know you have to have context and it could be the standing order was to shoot anyone entering that zone period end of subject. If that is the case, who do you blame, the one issuing the order or the soldier carrying out the order. Does Hamas bear some blame because their methods made the order necessary. Is it possible the girl was sent in that zone on purpose to become a martyr to be used for propaganda? I don't know those answers.

I also believe doing things like lobbing missiles indiscriminately into civilian area's, hiding weapons and men in schools and mosques or strapping bombs to themselves or their children and blowing up civilians is also an equally disturbing atrocity.

In the end there wont be any winners. Hamas could obtain a horrible weapon and kill huge numbers of innocent Jewish civilians. Isreal could overreact to a Terrorist act by Hamas and end up bombing innocent Palestinian civilians. One is as wrong as the other.

reply to post by gem_man


The soldier that killed the little girl will now have to answer to the Big Man when (and if) he ends up at the Pearly Gates.

Heck, just give me a few minutes with this guy. Somebody will have to be buried within 24 hours of the meeting - and it won't be me. On behalf of this helpless little girl, I'd help to accelerate his meeting with the Big-Man.

What a LOSER!!!!!!

-E2

Don't you know? Israel doesn't do anything wrong. They can attack flotillas and execute innocent people while Fox News defends them.

No wonder we are hated if we support monsters like the "captain."

If Israel did give the Palestineans land of their own, and all territory in dispute was withdrawn from, would Israel still be condemned and attacked by it's neighbors?

Undoubtedly yes. That speaks volumes alone.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Gainsayer]

How surprising ...NOT
As we speak, 2 Israelis injured in 2nd West Bank shooting attack.
One victims in critical condition

www.ynetnews.com...

Originally posted by Gainsayer
If Israel did give the Palestineans land of their own, and all territory in dispute was withdrawn from, would Israel still be condemned and attacked by it's neighbors?

Undoubtedly yes. That speaks volumes alone.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Gainsayer]

Depends on if they kept up their atrocious foreign policy. If you are going to be a bad neighbor, then you have to expect your neighbors to behave the same way.

reply to post by Ong Bak


There is nothing you can say that will justify what this gutless coward did. Shooting is too good for him he deserves a very long and very slow painful death for what he did.

reply to post by Gainsayer


So the Israel's should give land to the Palestinians, land that was originally theirs and taken from them?

lollogic

when people use children to carry bombs there is little options there to keep yoruself safe and assure there is no threat.

This why they made security zones.... so children even if alloed to walk around with large duffel bags couldnt possibly get within range of a base. It was a tactic that was inavoidable when tring to hold an area within a country that uses its own civilians as bomb carring hostages.

Often in situation where a hostage is forced to carry a bomb there is a hostage taker some where within visual range to detonate the explosive remotely when the hostage gets within range of a target.... or after the hostage has been killed by defence forces and the body is invetigated.

This is why confirming hte kill exists... givien the extinsive use of remotely detonated bombs in some of the worst possible situations. So once a target is down... if there appears to be any part of the body that might be carrying a device that could be remotely detonated the most intelligent thing to do is to pour bullets into the object to either disable the potential explosive or detonate it.

after several attack where insurgets detonated bombs in palestinian morkets... then the insurgets wait untill emergecy crew or soilders arrive to help... then detonating secondary explosives.

This is the only cost effetive way to prevent this. Security kill zones, and pouring hot lead into ANYTHING you might think could explode. Given the circumstances the isrealies are really just responding to the tactics used against them.

reply to post by Gainsayer


You don't and can't possible know that to be true. Also, most people don't answer their own question when putting one to debate.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Given the circumstances the isrealies are really just responding to the tactics used against them.

I am not directing my frustration at you, but this statement makes me think about how the Israeli's basically have a free pass to do the same to anyone, even a 3 year old as the captain said.

it must be nice to say anyone could have a bomb and therefore deserves to be shot to death with an entire clip.

i believe that any body that chooses to fight a war, and hides behind non combatants, to be cowards. if you are 100% sure of your cause, you should be proud to put on a uniform and be identified with said cause. children under the age of 17 should never be in voled in any type of war for the simple fact,
they are not mature enough to make up their minds up about such things that a war includes. mainly the taking of a life. hell even at 17 thats to young.
as i write this i think about all the child solders that are forced to fight in conflicts all over the world. most are captured from villages and made to fight with the use of force, drugs, the fear of death, and many other ways of brain washing. i would think it safe to say most of these children don't have a clue why they are fighting, other than to keep the people that are holding them captive from killing them.

now the targeting of civilians, who may or may not harbor ill feeling toward one side or the other is definitely wrong. most civilians are just wanting to get through their day, worried about life's everyday problems, not how much they might hate some other race of people. but if you are faced with a enemy that hides its self among the population what do you do. let them keep on attacking and killing your people or kill any thing that moves.

I think if Israel gives back the land that they took from the war it would go a long ways toward getting support from the Arab neighbors.

They do not want the Palestinians to have to live in their lands so I am sure they would expend immense support of this action.

I know the Israelis do not want to give it up but it for some magical reason they do agree to give it back it could mean the first step towards peace.

Besides it is not like the Israelis could not just send in troops and take it back it if Palestine goes back on the deal.

He will not be able to escape his conscience, he might feel good talking like a tough man but what goes around comes around - i actually feel sorry for him!.

"let the dead bury their dead" from the bible (i'm not a religious person)
these people are truly lost and he is already dead because he doesn't understand the simple facts of life, right whats next oh yea! Iran...

these kind of events really do make you world weary but one day good will prevail it always will because there is no other way!.
sorry drunken rant over.

Does anyone remember being thirteen? I mean puberty is hard enough.

I dont think he made his point on her at all.

This was obviously to show that his politics overrides all morals.

In the name of ------- all is allowed.

Right ? Wrong?

No such thing

The victim becomes the tyrant and the tyrant becomes now the victim..and does exactly what he accuses his oppressors of doing.

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
I think if Israel gives back the land that they took from the war it would go a long ways toward getting support from the Arab neighbors.

They do not want the Palestinians to have to live in their lands so I am sure they would expend immense support of this action.

I know the Israelis do not want to give it up but it for some magical reason they do agree to give it back it could mean the first step towards peace.

Besides it is not like the Israelis could not just send in troops and take it back it if Palestine goes back on the deal.

They didn't take the land it was given to the jewish people by the english and the usa after world war 2, ethnic cleasning is happening all over the world look at the Burmese goverment conducting genocide against the Karen tribe or the Chinese against the tibetans or the sri lanken government against its own civilians using terrorism as a poor excuse.

oh i forgot to mention kosovo with the Serbian massacres that happened.
Not to mention chechnya.

[edit on 1/9/2010 by survivor]

[edit on 1/9/2010 by survivor]

Originally posted by spiritualgirl
Does anyone remember being thirteen? I mean puberty is hard enough.

I dont think he made his point on her at all.

This was obviously to show that his politics overrides all morals.

In the name of ------- all is allowed.

Right ? Wrong?

No such thing

The victim becomes the tyrant and the tyrant becomes now the victim..and does exactly what he accuses his oppressors of doing.

So true , look at what the NSDP aka the Nazi's did to the Jewish people and anyone else who might have been considered a degenerate in some twisted way!.

[edit on 1/9/2010 by survivor]

[edit on 1/9/2010 by survivor]

reply to post by survivor


I was referring to the land that Israel captured during the war in 1967 the "Six-Day War". Apparently it is a huge chip on the negotiating table that the Palestinians want back. I am sure it would carry a lot of negotiating weight for Israel to give it back to Palestine. Of course I doubt it would ever be given back since the entire conflict revolves around a land dispute.

reply to post by Blaine91555


the person pulling the Trigger, the person issuing orders
isnt the one thats firing the firing Pin
at the end of the day the person who is excuating these orders has his or her own moral and own judgement,

dont bring Hamas and so on into this, to many people are trying to justify the murder of palestinians on Hamas and on another topic, justify the murder of israeli civilians on Israeli IDF