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Preconceptions are a Bane to ATS.

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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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How many times have you looked at a thread and saw a poster that you've debated in the past and have a notion as to what they will post. Do you go into that thread with preconceptions as to what they said? Does it cloud your comprehension of what has been said?

Most of us have done it. 3 times in the last couple of weeks I've misrepresented to myself what a poster that I usually disagree with DIDN'T but I just saw the avvy and the user name. So now I'm all on my high horse, ready to do battle when what it was was a different topic and our views were similar and they actually had valid points that I didn't think of. I did this again today. Not that I just agree with my point of view but this is an interesting thing.

If one is barking at another member just because of who they are, you may be missing good points, whether they are in agreement of your own or not. You can't learn anything this way. I've even seen it in threads, "I wonder when Member X will show up to say his old arguments?"

This is not only counterproductive for the board, you're cheating YOURSELF out of what may be excellent material. Preconceptions hurt EVERYONE. I'm going to make a better effort on this issue, I have room for improvement. Will you guys join me? We're all ATS members and we are working for the same thing..... truth.

You guys up to it?




posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


I know that a lot of members I have debated topics with, have similar opinions to myself on other topics. I usually don't like to jump the bandwagon (though I am usually the debate provoker, lol).



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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Preconceptions are a Bane to ATS.


reply to post by intrepid
 


While I agree with the point of your post, prejudice is a mainstay of the human condition. They do, rightly or wrongly, give us a source of strength when facing off with daily life.

Luckily, we often do sometimes grow wiser with time and age and those old preconceptions fall like a house of cards... though never all at once.

I once took it upon myself to try and speak to the paranoia that goes with the notion of ATS and other sites being infiltrated with eeville disinformationists. I pointed out that everything; every single word ever posted here, could be discarded and left behind as easily as it is embraced.

Oh well.

Humanity is not a whole. It is made up of billions of independent, free roaming entities that will of their own ability, either find a truth or not... and their is little that anyone can do except to offer our own ideals and beliefs of truth.

The only person we can guide to a true end is ourselves.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


An excellent, and insightful post as usual my friendly Canuck!

However, I'm going to rain on your parade.

People don't want the truth. They want THEIR version of the truth. They want the sort of truth that fits in around their tv schedule - or the truth that provides them with the justification and means to outdo, beat-on, and generally abuse their neighbour that they don't like - or the truth that lets them turn a blind eye to bigotry practiced by them or others...

...basically any truth that allows people to justify taking the path of least resistance in life.

From your post I think you'd agree that people with preconceptions are indeed taking this destructive short-cut, to help them assimilate genuine facts into their version of the 'truth', in an effort to make it more believable.

My point is that the folks on ATS do NOT want to get to the truth any more. They want to justify their version of the truth to themselves (and be gratified with recognition of this truth by others) so that they can get a handle on the world when it presents no answers at all. Every day I am constantly reminded that most people on ATS just CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Whether it's because there is large population of poorly educated people on here I don't know. Whether it's because there is a large population of people on here that haven't travelled outside of their country I don't know. Whether or not it's because ATS by its' very nature attracts damaged, unwell or just genuinely unstable individuals I don't know.

What I do know is, that for many people on ATS - their preconceptions are ALL THEY HAVE! So they cling to them, perhaps in desperation or ignorance, simply so that they can continue to 'believe' that they have a handle on at least SOME things in the world. Like a childhood blanket, these preconceptions can sometimes never be truly thrown out, and will continue to cast a shadow over people their whole life.

I come across as arrogant and pig-headed sometimes. I don't care.


But what most people don't realise is that when I stick in the mud on a subject or someones preconception, it's not because of a conviction I hold - it's because of personal experience, and a damn good education. I don't passionately argue with someone because I think I could be right - it's because I've been proven right empirically in my world.

Yet, experience, empiricism, and affirmative education count for nothing on ATS. Popular convictions, preconceptions and mob mentality seem to be ruling the day - simply because they are not proscribed. Freedom of expression is fantastic, until that expression becomes expressionless because it is diffused completely in the mire of tripe and spam contributed by moronic ingrates.

Oh it is definitely true that we take things the wrong way much of the time - such is the danger of the written word when 82% of communication between humans is not verbalised or written. Even so - what is the point of trying to understand people better on ATS, when we constantly have to wade through obviously unshakably preconceived filth?

But try we do - because we want to deny ignorance. Or at least some of us do.

Parallex.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Parallex]

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Parallex]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 





How many times have you looked at a thread and saw a poster that you've debated in the past and have a notion as to what they will post. Do you go into that thread with preconceptions as to what they said? Does it cloud your comprehension of what has been said?


I try not to do that, on the other hand there are posters who are inconsistent, they say something in one thread and the total opposite in another. How can you not have preconceptions with a poster like that, Do they have short term memory loss or think no one will notice, I cannot take a poster like that seriously.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Originally posted by intrepid
If one is barking at another member just because of who they are, you may be missing good points, whether they are in agreement of your own or not. You can't learn anything this way.

This is not only counterproductive for the board, you're cheating YOURSELF out of what may be excellent material. Preconceptions hurt EVERYONE. I'm going to make a better effort on this issue

I think it's only natural that people will develop personality conflicts as a result of opposite views in discussion and debate. I for one have fallen into this trap as a result of trying to discuss certain issues with posters who seem to have a hidden agenda, and will never even attempt to understand or acknowledge any valid points that I bring up during the debate. But I think that we all have been making these mistakes.

It is sometimes hard to know and to understand what a posters true motives and intentions really are, given the fact that most of us here on ATS are truly anonymous. This is not the real world where opinionators are scrutinized in the flesh for their thoughts and ideas. But on the upswing, I think that ATS, because of its anonymous nature, has a lot to offer in terms of people being much freer to express views that they would never be able to express in the real world. And a lot of valuable insight will be the net result.

I want to thank you for creating this thread and giving us the opportunity to continue down that road in our quest for the Truth. Isn't this what it's all about?

Thanks again!......Bane!........just kidding.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Y'know Trep, I started to say that I don't really notice who starts a thread, and that's true........ but thinking further into your OP, I realize that what you're talking about is indeed the case for me sometimes.

Let's say there is a thread on an issue for which I'm passionate about. I don't care who begins the thread, but it's true -- much as weren't so -- that I have often left the thread without comment if I see someone whom I perceive as parrotting the same ol' same ol' as before.

Did I read and give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they were dredging up the same ol' arguements? I don't know.

What I do know is that I will read and discover in the future, and perhaps be less inclined to prejudge.

I hate being in a do-loop where X says Y and I say Z and X says A in response and I say B. That's not informative, and that's not a productive discussion.

Thank you for this thread.
I continue to learn from you.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:46 AM
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The answers are subjective to the experiences of a member .


Originally posted by intrepid
How many times have you looked at a thread and saw a poster that you've debated in the past and have a notion as to what they will post.


Well its been about a year since I took part in discussions with a regular bunch of members . When this has happened it became possible to take a reasonable stab at what the contents of OP might be .


Do you go into that thread with preconceptions as to what they said?


When do preconceptions become more of the fact that you have got to know the member some what on and or off the boards ?


Does it cloud your comprehension of what has been said?


Somewhat . In my experience say someone who holds left wing views is well going to hold those views with some variety thrown in with each member .


Most of us have done it. 3 times in the last couple of weeks I've misrepresented to myself what a poster that I usually disagree with DIDN'T


It hasn't happened recently on the boards but I know the feeling . Sometimes I just about fall off my chair when I agree with a former regular poster who I keep in regular email contact with .




I've even seen it in threads, "I wonder when Member X will show up to say his old arguments?"


The problem is that some members do manage to stay within the T&C all the while focusing solely on one or two different issues .



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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I hear what you are saying intrepid, but I have to say some preconceptions are useful.
For example, Alex Collier makes some wonderful points about the injustice of our world, and some are points I agree with. He is also either fully insane or just an awe inspiring piece of crap , who has lead hundreds down the path of ignorance and hippyism. In short the dude needs to be shot for crimes against intelligence, even though he makes good points. Its precisely because he has the intellect to make points people will agree with , and then mix them up with totaly insane statements with the intent of delivering them as a piece, which make him so dangerous to intelligent UFO debate, and thats why he should be terminated before his mind plauge can spread.
However, if you mean member to member communication , well I see your point, but I still say that preconception isnt always a bad thing, and I dont think removing it entirely is a great idea. Perhaps its only innacurate preconception which is a bad idea !



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