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Krugman : Let congress pass another 800 billion $ stimulus

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posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by john124
 


you should watch the movie called 'the other guys'. The end credits show basically how ponzi schemes works and even considered the bailouts as a part of that scheme.




posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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It is becomming more evident with each passing day that those "elected" to positions of power wish to commit treason against the nation they swore to uphold. I'd venture to say that purposely destroying to economy and, thus, this nation is worthy of the crime of high treason.

For this reason, the majority can no longer be "silent". We can no longer hold our hope on rallies or parties that do nothing to change the system we have allowed to grow out of hand. We have become slaves to tyranny and must rise up.

There will come a time when it will be necessary to water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots once again. And it's closer than you think.

The Fed must be dissolved, taxes must be eliminated and the Republic must be restored.

edit: because I haven't had my coffee


[edit on 1-9-2010 by Freenrgy2]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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Krugman is an amazing full who is in love with government, and is totally committed to the Keynesian (terrible) ideas.

Because of that, he must look at government the same way these other progressives (aka Democratic Socialists) look at government: as an investment tool that generates wealth.

The fool.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


-let those who have to fail, fail
-put back Glass Stegal Act
-break the big banks in many parts
-stop loaning money for free to the big banks
-nationalize and audit the FED if not abolishing it
-put tariff on imported goods
-legalize drugs
-bring back the troops

QFT


I would add:

-cut military spending to 1/3 of current value, audit milirary and "black projects"
-properly defend the mexican border
-do not grant automatic birthright citizenship to illegal imigrants children
-abolish current welfare system and instead set up negative tax income based one, then abolish minimal wage since it would not be needed anymore
-invest government money to public projects, science, research and development, nuclear energy, alternative energy sources, stem cells research (there would be plenty of money to do it and even lower taxes, if the points above would be put into practice)

We can dream..


[edit on 1-9-2010 by Maslo]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 07:25 AM
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If you want to get money flowing in the economy, this isn't a bad idea:


Give a rich guy 1 billion dollars, and he might spend about 100 million of it, if you're lucky, then save the other 900 million in various investments/bonds/etc.

Give 10 million poor people 100$ each, and you can bet that by the end of the week, all 1 billion dollars will be circulated into the economy.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by xxshadowfaxx
 


Wrong, it patched the economy to avoid civil unrest in the US.

Did the Stimulus Create Jobs?

Well actually the numbers as usual have to be taken with a grain of salt.

If you can count losing middle class paying jobs to oversea in record numbers, the stimulus only send tax payer money oversea

But if counting 43 percent jobs on food service and poverty level jobs as a gain then you are mistaken as the programs for food stamp and the recipients of wealth fare has increased in the last two years.

this are the job number growth that the CBO is using to show that Obama job promises are almost met


According to the CBO, the stimulus may have added 3.3 million jobs. In its most recent quarterly appraisal of the stimulus act, the CBO said the stimulus lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 and 1.8 percentage points during the quarter ending in June, decreasing the number of unemployed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million. 3.3 million is pretty close to Obama's promise to create 3.5 million jobs by the end of the year.


Can we trust this numbers?

Well let see,


On March 8, 2010 CBO Director Douglas Elementary spoke at a conference to the National Association for Business Economics (NABE) regarding, among other things, the impact of the stimulus law on the economy. During the session, Elementary stated specifically that his team’s estimates do not measure real-world outputs (just inputs), that they do not serve as an independent check on its success or failure, and that if the stimulus had not created jobs the CBO's figures would not reflect that fact.


I don't think so

www.economyincrisis.org...

Unfortunately this new generation is never to be making what the generations before them did even with college degrees, we have been declining on wages in the US not gaining.


Of the nation’s fastest growing occupations, the only one that pays above the May 2009 median wage of $15.95 per hour, is that of a registered nurse. They make, on average, $30.65 per hour.

All the other occupations most readily available not only pay below the median wage, but oftentimes are hovering just above the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.


Welcome to the New Economy. Would You Like Fries with That?

www.economyincrisis.org...




[edit on 1-9-2010 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by xxshadowfaxx
 


think you need to watch these 3 videos mate cause you are so far off the mark it isn't funny I knew these stimulus packages were a bad idea as soon as they were trying to put them on us.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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The stimulus that was granted to banks and corporations was a complete joke and nothing more than a freebie to the fatcat executives. If the government actually cared a bit about fixing, or addressing the ills of the economy, they would have done something that benefited consumers and not corporations.

Put money in the pockets of the people that spend it, not the banks that are hoarding it.

A prime example of something that would have had a drastic and immediate effect is instead of giving the money to the banks with no strings attached - essentially saying "Thanks for giving money to people that you shouldn't have! In exchange for your stupid and greedy lending policies, have this wad of cash!" - they should have looked at the American consumer's debt.

If you qualified for this stimulus-derived debt relief, your debt would be decreased (forgiven) by a percentage, or entirely, but your credit would be shot for 7 years. Much the same as a bankruptcy, but without padding the pockets of lawyers and tying up the courts in the process and without all of the Republican-mandated strings.

IMMEDIATELY, disposable income would have skyrocketed across the board, and it would have actually been CHEAPER than what was given to the banks. More disposable income = more spending = more production demands = more tax revenue = more productivity.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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Why not pass it???? The American people literally are never gonna wake up if the rape of their money is too subtle. They need a real HARD pounding before they start to care. All this talk isnt goin to educate them if the failure of the last stimulus bill wasnt enough to wake em up then I truly dont care about their problem Im tired of trying to warn people I no longer work over table nor do I own bank account I havent paid income tax in 7 years. Yea I dont have credit or own a home but in actuallity NO ONE OWNS A HOME!! You pay property taxes on it til you die then they give it away if you dont have family to pay the slave taxes I mean property taxes after you pass on. I am no longer part of the system I merely just sustain my self but that ok because I never felt free until I decided to stop believing in the money system. You have no idea how good it feel to not have toys and the slavery (debt) thats attatched to them hahahaha. Sorry folks you WILL not educate jack # and the government is in ABSOLUTE CONTROL! One other little secret!!1 Afghan war is not made to be WON its made to be SUSTAINED LOL WAR ON TERROR?????? War on an EMOTION??????? HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOALS TO THAT WAR??? HAH SOUNDS LIKE war on drugs another thing that you will never get rid of!!! However you folks were duped now our family members get tossed in prison for doing or selling drugs good job guys


[edit on 1-9-2010 by Interfacer]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:37 AM
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Bush's bailout failed
Obama's bailout failed

The only government spending that either one of them did that had any marginal success was when Bush sent us all a check for $600.

As much as it pains me to say it - Bush had the right idea. GIve money to the people, and watch the economy flow.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by atlguy
The stimulus that was granted to banks and corporations was a complete joke and nothing more than a freebie to the fatcat executives. If the government actually cared a bit about fixing, or addressing the ills of the economy, they would have done something that benefited consumers and not corporations.


The stimulus is not a problem fixer, it is only a short term feel good.


Put money in the pockets of the people that spend it, not the banks that are hoarding it.


And? When that is gone, then what? More of the same old problem.



A prime example of something that would have had a drastic and immediate effect is instead of giving the money to the banks with no strings attached - essentially saying "Thanks for giving money to people that you shouldn't have! In exchange for your stupid and greedy lending policies, have this wad of cash!" - they should have looked at the American consumer's debt.


Did anyone put a gun to the heads of those American consumers, and make them go over board on debt? No, they put themselves in that place. They borrowed money without looking at what may happen in the future. Like maybe having their job sent over seas, big pay cuts, their company closing for good.



If you qualified for this stimulus-derived debt relief, your debt would be decreased (forgiven) by a percentage, or entirely, but your credit would be shot for 7 years. Much the same as a bankruptcy, but without padding the pockets of lawyers and tying up the courts in the process and without all of the Republican-mandated strings.


And that makes it better how? You do know, that stimulus has to be payed back in taxes. Not just your taxes, but your childrens, grand childrens, and maybe even your great grand childrens taxes. Nothing like having a national debt now big enough for our future generations to pay back. I wouldn`t blame our future generations for telling us where to go. We pile this debt on them, so we can feel good now. And all because we are to stupid to do away with this corrupt money system we now have.



IMMEDIATELY, disposable income would have skyrocketed across the board, and it would have actually been CHEAPER than what was given to the banks. More disposable income = more spending = more production demands = more tax revenue = more productivity.


Yep, and when that is gone, it`s back to the same old same old debt. What you are saying, will take one great deal of time. Time we don`t have if we don`t want to dump this debt on our future generations.


[edit on 1-9-2010 by FiatLux]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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We could have prevented this.

But that was 100 years ago...



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Krugman keeps beating his same discredited drum. I wish the guy would shut up.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...

Great idea there... let's have a 2.4 + trillion $ deficit!

Paul Krugman was on CNBC yesterday calling for more stimulus. He wants to give Congress the ability to spend another $800B in an effort to get the economy going again.

This guy is nuts. A 800B$ ``stimulus`` bill right now would put the US 2010 deficit to around 2.5 TRILLION $... or 17% of GDP... or MORE THAN ALL THE US FEDERAL INCOME FOR THE YEAR.

Please someone put this guy in jail for promoting national economic suicide.

The stimulus funded lots of BS projects and did almost nothing.

Keynesian economic theory was given a go... IT FAILED.

Time to switch theory.

Hopefully in the future John Maynard Keynes will be as hated as Hitler.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Vitchilo]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


Short, sweet, and to the point. You are so right in those few words. And for that blunder, look at where we are now.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


We're where we are because of military debts and corporate plundering of the US treasury (which INCLUDES military debts).

Now that jobs are tanking, wages continue to suck, and people are finding it impossible to get by, a thought crossed the minds of some economists: "Instead of giving money to robber barron corporations, why don't we give it to some of those poor people who are losing everything they own?" To which the media replies: DEFICITS DEFICITS DEFICITS!

Now suddenly deficits matter, and everybody is an economist, so we can't possibly spend money on helping the poor.. of course, we can still spend it on corporate plundering: See Afghan ramp up and pentagon budgets, for more information.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by pacific_waters
 


This economy is already on it`s death bed hooked up to life support. It`s just a matter of time before the plug is pulled. Unless there is devine intervention to fix it, I would say that this is a hopeless cause.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by FiatLux
 


We're where we are because of military debts and corporate plundering of the US treasury (which INCLUDES military debts).

Now that jobs are tanking, wages continue to suck, and people are finding it impossible to get by, a thought crossed the minds of some economists: "Instead of giving money to robber barron corporations, why don't we give it to some of those poor people who are losing everything they own?" To which the media replies: DEFICITS DEFICITS DEFICITS!

Now suddenly deficits matter, and everybody is an economist, so we can't possibly spend money on helping the poor.. of course, we can still spend it on corporate plundering: See Afghan ramp up and pentagon budgets, for more information.


Yep, and when it`s all said and done, in the end, nobody wins. Not you, me, the war machine, the big bankers or anyone. When it all tanks, nobody is a winner, it all goes down.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:11 AM
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"The Secret of Oz" trailer - How to Fix the 2010 Depression - directed by Bill Still




posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:15 AM
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Money is not real to these people, it's just numbers on a page. If you could walk up to one of them, and without any sort of preparation by all of their assistants, they had to look at a grocery list and write down the price of each item, they would fail miserably. They couldn't come within a dollar of the correct prices. They don't go shopping or to get gas, or any of the real world things we all do every day.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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I no longer work over table nor do I own bank account I haven’t paid income tax in 7 years.


Yes but some of us enjoy new cars and nice houses. My property taxes pay for the schools in my neighborhood where my kids attend. My county taxes pay you’re your emergency hospital bills. If we trash the entire system you will be turned away at the front door when you have your heart attack.

Did the stimulus and bailouts do everything that everybody thought it would do? No! But it did keep the entire economy from falling off a cliff.

You are not thinking through the entire set of consequences that would have happened if we had let GM and Chrysler fail. It wouldn’t have been just the assembly plants that would close.
It would have been:
The plants.
The sub assembly plants.
The parts manufacturers
Tire factories.
The parts suppliers.
Trucking companies.
Dealers
Family restaurants next to the plants and dealers.
Bank branches

The same thing for the big bank bailouts only worse since their tentacles run behind the scene of almost every corporation. If they had failed many companies not involved in the economic collapse would have seized up just like ball bearings down a carb. The big pay outs to the big wigs were contractual. You couldn’t have stopped them. It sucks but that’s life.
Think of our situation this way.
If Hitler was driving the bus towards the cliff you can either:
Pay him to pull over or shoot him in the head and loose the passengers.

We had to do the initial round of bailouts and supports. But it’s time to put away the federal wallet.

In my way of thinking housing prices and wages will reset themselves lower at some point. Sooner and cheaper if the government quits with the stimulus program. Later and costlier if they keep meddling.

I may be running against the crowd here but I’ll trust the overpaid, college graduated, world respected, Ben Bernanke long before I trust some of the no diploma, no job, society dropouts on here. I’m silly that way.



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