Krugman : Let congress pass another 800 billion $ stimulus, page 1
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Topic started on 31-8-2010 @ 03:14 PM by Vitchilo
Insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...

Great idea there... let's have a 2.4 + trillion $ deficit!

Paul Krugman was on CNBC yesterday calling for more stimulus. He wants to give Congress the ability to spend another $800B in an effort to get the economy going again.

This guy is nuts. A 800B$ ``stimulus`` bill right now would put the US 2010 deficit to around 2.5 TRILLION $... or 17% of GDP... or MORE THAN ALL THE US FEDERAL INCOME FOR THE YEAR.

Please someone put this guy in jail for promoting national economic suicide.

The stimulus funded lots of BS projects and did almost nothing.

Keynesian economic theory was given a go... IT FAILED.

Time to switch theory.

Hopefully in the future John Maynard Keynes will be as hated as Hitler.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Vitchilo]


reply posted on 31-8-2010 @ 03:28 PM by Vitchilo
reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


You mean they played with the numbers for the last two years? And manipulated the stock market and did all sorts of tricks with the FED to make believe in a ``recovery`` when it was utter BS from the start.


No basis problem was solved... the situation can't resolve itself.

Let those who have to fail, fail. Put back Glass Stegal Act. Break the big banks in many parts. Stop loaning money for free to the big banks. Nationalize and audit the FED if not abolishing it. Put tariff on imported goods. Legalize drugs. Bring back the troops.

Lots of things could be done to solve the problem. More stimulus won't do it.



reply posted on 31-8-2010 @ 03:39 PM by alienreality
Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
Stimulus did not fail It helped keep the economy afloat for the past two years. Now that money has run out, and everything is falling back into the pit it was in. I don't think there is any other solution other than to do another bailout. Yes, the bottom will fall out eventually, but its so far gone now that we can't fix it. So all we can do, is last as long as possible. The next bailout might last us another 2 years. Either way, the economy is doomed, its just a matter of when.


Yes the bailouts did too fail, and miserably failed..

The economy is worse than it was before the bailouts... That means the bailouts failed to do jack squat.. and guess what? they never will do jack squat! except enrich and empower the elite recipients..

If you paid attention to where that money really went you would know that, but I think your true motive is to be on the liberal bandwagon so that you feel like you are "part of the club" That is part of the mechanism of all the rediculous and failed policies of socialism, it gets as many people on board as possible by "befriending" everyone with touchy-feely words and concepts so that you "feel" good , it tries to make sure you don't "think" good...

It is all about emotions and not common sense.

And yes, BUSH did it too! get over it,, he passed the baton to This new administration and they took it and are running even faster with what the Bushes started... The bushes corrupted the republican party with their progressivness and now everyone in power has been promoting garbage ever since!

Following your logic I should not pay any bills and just max out all my credit cards and enjoy!

This is what the government is now doing like they expect the world to end soon.

And doing it with the American peoples hard earned money.

This used to be called Felony Fraud in a court of law


reply posted on 31-8-2010 @ 04:24 PM by dolphinfan
reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


Why is it then that the economys that have completely rejected this economic policy are thriving? India said no to more stimulus and their economy is growing by 8.8%. Russia rejected more stimulus and their economy is growing at 4.0%. Germany, who publically rejected Obama's pleas to spend more has seen its unemployment drop to half of what it was a year ago and is now at 7.6%.

This economic policy has failed - it is not that the money has been spent and kept things propped up - more than half of it has not even been spent! More than half of the TARP funds have yet to be spent. 2.5 years in and the money has not been spent. Will the feds return it? Nope.

This administration is purposefully looking to tank the economy. Creating a population that is wholly dependant on the goverrnment is the greatest way to give the government more power.

They're making progress. 1 and 6 Americans are now receiving some kind of government spiff.

Krugman is a buffoon. He is a self-described socialist and anti-capitalist. He's an academic who has never held a real job.

His Nobel Prize? Big deal. His Nobel Prize was for an econometric study of capital flows as they relate to shifts in demographics. It is a bunch of jibberish - I've read it and it is nothing but meaningless esoteric, banal nonsense. A lot of spohisticated math, but meaningful? No. It had nothing what so ever to do with monetary policy. His Nobel Prize is about as relevant to the topics he opines on as a Nobel Prize in Literature.

Why is he out there? He's out there because he has wisely discovered that being a paid shill for the left pays better than teaching at Princeton.

Ever ask yourself why he's the only dude they trot out there? Ever wonder why they don't have real economists, who work in the private sector spouting this stimulus nonsense? They don't have them out there because serious economists know that this "spend your way to prosperity" policy is rubbish. Rubbish that has never worked.


reply posted on 31-8-2010 @ 04:25 PM by john124
Bailout/Stimulus = "Ponzi" Schemes

www.sec.gov...

What is a Ponzi scheme?

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.



reply posted on 31-8-2010 @ 09:07 PM by FiatLux
Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
Stimulus did not fail It helped keep the economy afloat for the past two years. Now that money has run out, and everything is falling back into the pit it was in. I don't think there is any other solution other than to do another bailout. Yes, the bottom will fall out eventually, but its so far gone now that we can't fix it. So all we can do, is last as long as possible. The next bailout might last us another 2 years. Either way, the economy is doomed, its just a matter of when.



And you want to keep it going for what reason? It`s dead, let it go. Maybe starting a new system would be better than the corrupt one we have now. I look at keeping this one going, as like you trying to revive a person who is on life support and brain dead for two years. Why not let it go and start over?

Or is it that you don`t want to have a period of time where the money we have now will buy you nothing? Well, that will happen sooner or later, and it may as well be now so we can get it over with and get on with life. Add your thinking to the governments, and they are one in the same, spend spend spend with no end in sight, and more and more debt pilled up on the tax payers. This debt ridden system should never have been allowed to have seen the light of day from it`s start back when the Fed was started.

So a period of hard times will not kill us. If anything, just like the great depression this country went through, it will make people stronger in the end. It didn`t kill my parents or grand parents, they learned to do without, and made do with what they had. That`s the problem with the people today, they have had it so good for so many years, they wouldn`t know what to do if they couldn`t just run out and buy every little thing they wanted.

Well, the good old days are over, and it`s time to suck it up and come to that understanding. So get ready for that bump in the road, and face that reality now. Why put off the inevitable? It will only make it that much harder to go through when it does hit.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by FiatLux]


reply posted on 31-8-2010 @ 09:16 PM by FiatLux
reply to post by johnny2127


Exactly johnny. This cancer we call a money system needs to be cut out, and a new one implanted. Feeding this old system more of the same money, is like adding more cancer cells to one who has cancer.

Edit to add:

This sytem is like a house of cards, you can`t keep pilling more and more cards on top without is falling down from the weight. And the more weight you have on top, the harder and faster it will fall.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by FiatLux]



reply posted on 1-9-2010 @ 12:02 AM by ziggy1706
To me, the reason india, germany, and other places grew in business percentage, is simply because the things we buy, are made in those countrys. INdia was well known as a 3rd world country, but if you look at fruit of the lom socks for example, undershrits, thier made in india, Nivea shave gels are made in germany, CVS natural dish liquid is made in canada, many auto replacement parts, are made in china, Poland, India too..for american cars!!!
had this all been kept made in america BY american factorys and people, it hink this wouldnt be as bad as it is now..investors would see how positive everyone is, thus injecting more money wher needed. Effin Bush jr. helped corporate america steal from us all, as well as the chairman for the federal reserve in 2008..ex AIG CEO runs it. Reed or somerthing is his name tall creepy lurch looking ude with glasses..stole $700 billion form the reserve basically.
corporate america has brought greed as we all can plainly see. Bush should be brought up on econoimc disaster charges, adn the ex AIG CEO running the reserve brought up for money laundering of federal and public money funds. capitalism is good? well here si the answer...those responsbale took as much of it as they could launder, and left the system in shambles...
i personally am starting to belive, thier intentionally trying to crash our system here, turn ameica into a 3rd world country.I mean if they really cared, they wouldnt have allowed outsourcing so much tto where most american citizerns cannot even get a job pushing a broom* screw you wallstreet thanks for turining your spineless backs on the public and economy traitors*


reply posted on 1-9-2010 @ 04:36 AM by johnny2127
Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Originally posted by alienreality
Yes the bailouts did too fail, and miserably failed..


The bailouts didn't help the broader economy but that's not what this thread is about, it's about the stimulus which did in fact work. Take a look at any chart of the Dow or S&P 500, see how much the major corporations recovered from March 2009. Then take a look at the specialty indexes - manufacturing, inventory, shipping and transportation, home price/sales, autos, microchips, anything you want... everything recovered. Employment hasn't caught up yet but even that's stabilized and we went from losing 750k jobs a month at the end of 2008 to about 380k a month now. Unemployment is around 9.5% and it may take a few more years to get back down to normal employment levels of 4%.

And yes, BUSH did it too! get over it,


Since you're talking about the bailouts, Bush did almost ALL of it. The only money that went to bail out companies under Obama was for GM/Chrysler bankruptcies (a deal already made in 2008 when Bush gave them their bailout) and AIG (another deal made by Bush in 2008 with the first bailouts).

One of the few real conspiracies on this site is why the majority believe that Obama is responsible for the bailouts and that the stimulus didn't work. Both are completely false and can be disproven simply by looking at a calendar.


The stimulus didn't work. And the stock markets are not a gauge of the success of the stimulus or the health of the economy. Look at how the stock market was going through the roof the whole time banks were doing subprime loans, making derivatives, and things were about to crash. In actuality, all the stock market truly measures in the sentiment of those investing in the market, and that sentiment is hardly ever accurate.

If you truly believe the stimulus worked, that fine. But answer this; tell me how the stimulus actually dealt with the underlying problem that caused the collapse in the first place. Tell me why is housing about to double dip, the economy still losing jobs, and no real growth actually happening. Explain what measures in the stimulus worked. All the stimulus really did was temporarily make things FEEL better by injecting hundreds of billions into the economy, but not fixing the underlying problem. You cannot solve a bad debt, high leverage, lack of infrastructure problem with more of the same. Its like saying someone smoked for decades, was diagnosed with lung cancer, given pain meds but now smokes more than ever and the cancer was never operated on. That exactly what this stimulus plan was. $800 billion spent, of which only 1/3 only was stimulative. The rest was just pork projects members of Congress wanted for years. It was a terrible piece of legislation.


reply posted on 1-9-2010 @ 06:35 AM by ANNED
Originally posted by ziggy1706
To me, the reason india, germany, and other places grew in business percentage, is simply because the things we buy, are made in those countrys. INdia was well known as a 3rd world country, but if you look at fruit of the lom socks for example, undershrits, thier made in india, Nivea shave gels are made in germany, CVS natural dish liquid is made in canada, many auto replacement parts, are made in china, Poland, India too..for american cars!!!
had this all been kept made in america BY american factorys.
corporate america has brought greed as we all can plainly see. Bush should be brought up on econoimc disaster charges, adn the ex AIG CEO running the reserve brought up for money laundering of federal and public money funds. capitalism is good? well here si the answer...those responsbale took as much of it as they could launder, and left the system in shambles...


you blame the COP and i blame the democrats and there tree hugging friends for driving manufacturing out of the US.

I was the superintendent of a mine till the democrats made it imposable to run it with there rules and regs that cost so much money that we had to close.
Its not the rules and regs but the way that there were numerous government agencies wanting money to enforce the same rules and regs. At one point we had 6 government agencies enforcing the same rules and regs.(plus many more with there own rules and regs) plus another 12 wanting permits for just one project.

Once mining is shut down companies needing raw materials have to import them.

Importing raw materials is very expensive. So companies just have the raw materials turned into finished products where mined and ship the products a lot cheaper.

So don't blame the GOP for something the democrats started 40+ years ago and continue to do.

If you can not mine the raw materials in the US you lose three or more levels of money for the economy.
You lose the money the miners make mining the ore. The money the workers at the processing plants and mills make turning the ores into products that the manufactures need.
And you lose the employees at the manufactures because it always cheaper to make products close to the source of the raw materials.

You can see this happening with rare earths.
the last rare earth mine in the US was closed down by rules and regs and being undercut by china's mines.
Now China is taking it one step more by banning the export of rare earths from there mines and because the US mine at Mountain Pass Calif(world’s largest and richest Rare Earth deposit) is closed China is the major mining country for rare earths.
This mine also mines thorium as a byproduct that will be needed for the purposed thorium reactors that some want built.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Rare earths are critical in solar and wind power electric cars and computers.
treo.typepad.com...

Also buying raw materials from foreign countries weakens the US dollar because its people in foreign countries that make the money not US workers.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by ANNED]
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