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Healthcare workers should get a flu shot or lose their jobs, two health groups say

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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Astr0
Hospital aquired infections are a sad part of medicine world wide and you as a professional should know that. You should also know that it is impossible even in a hospital theatre with fully scrubbed staff to avoid infection cases.


Um, no. When Universal Precautions take place, there is little in the way of patients contracting infection. Like I said above, MRSE is a substance that is in every body. It can kill those with a compromised immune system. We went through that back in "08 and we had a ZERO infection transference. Hospitals couldn't even boast that. Oh, forgot to mention that our Infirmary was inside the largest jail in Canada. 0%, we were proud of that.




posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Astr0
I am stunned that you profess to be a healthcare professional and yet lack such basic skills - reading / comprehension is not your strong point I see.


Ahh, the ubiquitous ad hominem... I accept your complete and unconditional surrender.



See? I pointed it out to you so its nice and easy. On that note, why would I write a dissertaion on the subject of people who 'may have' more experience than you making informed decisions? are you saying there is peer reviewed worked on you and your personal experience? what utter rubbish. Lets have a look at your next little piece.


It's rather easy to support my position...

Where's your support?



Hospital aquired infections are a sad part of medicine world wide and you as a professional should know that. You should also know that it is impossible even in a hospital theatre with fully scrubbed staff to avoid infection cases. I indeed shall take a long hard look at literature and publications / research to see how many patients have died of hospital aquired 'flu'.


I'm not talking about infections acquired by means other than healthcare worker to patient (and vice versa), specifically influenza, hepatitis, and other illnesses that are preventable by immunization.



Influenza, influenza-like illness (ILI) and pneumonia cause significant morbidity and mortality. Influenza contributes to approximately
36,000 deaths annually in the United States,1 with mortality increasing over the last two decades as the population ages and with
antigenic drifts in the influenza virus. Influenza continues to be a major cause of death and disease, readily spread by respiratory droplets
both in the community and in the health care environment. Health care workers (HCWs) are at risk of infection from exposure to their
patients, and patients are potentially at risk of contracting the disease when exposed to infected workers.


www.seiu.org...

I will comment that the same healthcare workers that know "alot" more than I do regarding infection control and universal precautions are the same healthcare workers who tend to not wash their hands, glove up, use masks, and wear inappropriate attire for their level of patient contact. I'm more than willing to discuss all the failings of institutional healthcare in the U.S. or any other country.



Oh and if you are a healthcare pro - you should also know that relatives coming into hospital are a large part of the problem - as are flowers in vases with water in them.


And I'm on board with limiting visitors and outside items because they are a risk, especially to immune compromised patients. Interestingly, the institutions that enforce such practices are private "doctor's hospitals" and are the target of Obamacare. To embrace on aspect of infection control and to eschew a cornerstone of another is sheer ignorance and demonstrates a failure to comprehend science and tenets of modern medicine.



Well - I guess I'll just have to shake my head and be dead glad you are not my unit manager or any of the former managers I have worked for.


I agree... Your tenure would have been exceedingly brief.


[edit on 31/8/2010 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Um, no. When Universal Precautions take place, there is little in the way of patients contracting infection. Like I said above, MRSE is a substance that is in every body. It can kill those with a compromised immune system. We went through that back in "08 and we had a ZERO infection transference. Hospitals couldn't even boast that. Oh, forgot to mention that our Infirmary was inside the largest jail in Canada. 0%, we were proud of that.


A jail infirmary? Now can you tell me (A)how many beds it has, (B) are the beds seperated in bays (C) are they allowed hospital visitors from outside or is it a secure unit where human interaction is limited and thus potential exposure is limited and finally (D) just what procedures your patients undergo inside the infirmary so I can guage for myself how invasive you will go before transference to an outside facility.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:13 PM
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I've never had the flu shot prevent me from getting the flu. The last time I had the flu shot it made me sick (NOT with the flu, the shot just made me sick) and then I got the flu THREE times that flu season. And it took weeks to recover each time. The following year I didn't get the shot and only got the flu once and it took two weeks to recover. The next year I didn't get the shot and didn't get the flue at all.

I have auto-immune disease, so getting injected with stuff makes me very ill. There's been studies that even indicate a correlation with immunizations in childhood and auto-immune disease later. I'm sure I'm not the only one affected.

So, health care workers with autoimmune disease may end up being sick for weeks from the vaccine (if they're as badly affected as I am from them) and still end up losing their jobs. They shouldn't be forced to do anything other than washing their hands (which should be common sense).

Plus, I have been reading where they are supposedly going to be adding swine flu vaccine to the regular flu vaccine this year. Dunno yet how true that is, but if it is then it could cause a lot of nerve damage and other problems to people.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Astr0
A jail infirmary? Now can you tell me (A)how many beds it has, (B) are the beds seperated in bays


Those 2 actually go together. 16 private rooms and 2 wards of 4 beds apiece.


(C) are they allowed hospital visitors from outside or is it a secure unit where human interaction is limited and thus potential exposure is limited


The visits are between glass. No interaction except for the gaurds and they are trained in UP as well.


(D) just what procedures your patients undergo inside the infirmary so I can guage for myself how invasive you will go before transference to an outside facility.

Thanks.


There are no outside facilities. Everyone send these patients our way. They aren't turned down.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by intrepid]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me

I agree... Your tenure would have been exceedingly brief.


Here in the UK you wouldn't have a team to manage. Day 1 hour 1 "You are all having mandatory flu vaccines"...

Day 1 hour 1.5.

"Err HR? I have no staff. They all laughed in my face and walked out."

Swine flu vaccine is a point in case - here in the UK we refused en masse to have that forced on us and we were right to. All you had to do was use your education and do a little research.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Astr0
A jail infirmary? Now can you tell me (A)how many beds it has, (B) are the beds seperated in bays


Those 2 actually go together. 16 private rooms and 2 wards of 4 beds apiece.


(C) are they allowed hospital visitors from outside or is it a secure unit where human interaction is limited and thus potential exposure is limited


The visits are between glass. No interaction except for the gaurds and they are trained in UP as well.


(D) just what procedures your patients undergo inside the infirmary so I can guage for myself how invasive you will go before transference to an outside facility.

Thanks.


There are no outside facilities. Everyone send these patients our way. They aren't turned down.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by intrepid]


Very impressive. So you can do full neuro and cardiac in your jail? very, very impressed.

Jealous even. Thank you for your reply.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Astr0
 


No. Cardiac we can do. Neuro, no. They'd have to go to a hospital. Where they may get an infection. No joke, we're damn proud of our infection control. I have yet to hear anyone better. I hope they do though. That's something to aspire to imo.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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I would be willing to offer lead based vaccines to any whom wish to force vaccinate myself or any family member.


Just to define 'force' in laymans terms: Do this or else.

That's not going to fly where I live at. The Local Health dept. has been told if they attempt it to call in for those FEMA coffins, Cause they may get put to use.

www.nvic.org...



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by Astr0
"Err HR? I have no staff.


And the institution would immediately become a safer place for the patients. I believe your statement speaks more to the mindset and level of professionalism in the U.K. than anything else.

On a a side note, my position is supported by sources within the U.K. I've yet to see anything more than sophomoric anecdotes from you.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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(NaturalNews) Shortly after Australia banned flu vaccines in children due to an alarming increase in vomiting, fevers and seizures caused by the vaccines (www.naturalnews.com...), Finland has now suspended H1N1 vaccines due to increased reports of narcolepsy in children and teens. Narcolepsy is a nervous system disorder characterized by extreme fatigue and daytime sleepiness. It indicates a serious malfunction of the brain and nervous system
www.naturalnews.com...

Gardasil is the HPV vaccine, touted to fight cervical cancer. But what they are not telling you is that thousands of girls are having adverse reactions, some have even died, at last count it was seventy one. We have got to do something about this. These girls need our help! These girls are having reactions such as; seizures, strokes, dizziness, fatigue, weakness, headaches, stomach pains, muscle pain and weakness, joint pain, auto-immune problems, chest pains, hair loss, appetite loss, personality changes, insomnia, hand/leg tremors, arm/leg weakness, shortness of breath, heart problems, paralysis, itching, rashes, swelling, aching muscles, menstrual cycle changes, fainting, swollen lymph nodes, night sweats, nausea, temporary vision/hearing loss just to name some of them!
truthaboutgardasil.org...
This is just a small sampling of what's going on out there. People are being injured by this garbage. It absolutely speaks to the blind ignorance of someone to demand that someone ELSE put something into their body.

Mind yourself and leave others alone. It's called private property. As in NOT YOURS! If you're afraid of catching something at the hospital then don't go! Figure something else out without foisting your endless fears on the rest of us.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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Reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


one death is a tragedy but a millon is a statistic. You seem pretty sure that Mirthfulls epidemiology is in error and mine as I agree with his statistics yet you fail to provide proof about your claim that the methods used for data collection is somehow flawed


 
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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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Reply to post by iamsupermanv2
 


are you suggesting that I get healthcare advice from Penn and Teller. Maybe I should consult Jenny Mcarthy in any and all healthcare choices for my children...... one has to wonder how many dead kids you could lay at her feet because of her asinine rants :shk:


 
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posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Astr0
 


No. Cardiac we can do. Neuro, no. They'd have to go to a hospital. Where they may get an infection. No joke, we're damn proud of our infection control. I have yet to hear anyone better. I hope they do though. That's something to aspire to imo.



It's pretty easy to do infection control when you're running a glorified general practice clinic. The few jails I've been to (we had "voluntary"/"suggested" days to do clinic work during internship) were nothing more than "stabilize and mobilize" infirmaries, that is, anything that can't be stabilized with basic meds and procedures gets mobilized to an actual hospital. If you aren't placing central lines, catheters, or even doing more than a few blood draws, it's awfully hard to pass an infection.

Also, you mention "MRSE" is on everyone/everything, which is false. Staph epidermidis most certainly is wide-spread, but beta-lactam resistant strains are not as common, certainly not as common as staph aureus beta-lactam resistant strains.

As for the actual topic of the thread, I don't think I can put it any better than Mirthful Me already has. The vaccitions (flu, HepB, etc.) aren't just for the protection of the staff, it's for the protection of the patients. You have no clue what you might be carrying on/in you, considering so many viral and bacterial infectiosn can be asymptomatic during the first few hours or days. All it would take to literally kill an immunocompromised patient is one actively infected (and thus unvaccinated) health care worker coughing/sneezing/breathing on them or something they touch. This is the same reason some family practitioners and pediatricians won't see patients who refuse to vaccinate, as it endangers other children in the waiting room.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 02:48 AM
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Look here is what I say about my kids. They can say the same thing.

"You take the shot, that way if I catch the disease you can't get it right?"

That is usually enough to shut down most morons. But there is no way I am ever getting another shot or letting my kids do it.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by SWCCFAN
I would be willing to offer lead based vaccines to any whom wish to force vaccinate myself or any family member.


Just to define 'force' in laymans terms: Do this or else.

That's not going to fly where I live at. The Local Health dept. has been told if they attempt it to call in for those FEMA coffins, Cause they may get put to use.

www.nvic.org...


No one is forcing you to get vaccines. We are simply telling you that, if you are a health care worker, you must place a high value on patient safety, which means vaccinating against easily spread (and potentially fatal) illnesses. If patient safety isn't a concern for you, then feel free to work elsewhere. No harm done to either you or the patients.

I'm sure someone with convictions as strong as yours (after all, the only situations I can imagine causing someone to make death threats as you did above would be either strong conviction or mental instability), would have no problem keeping said convictions even if it meant having to change careers.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by belial259
Look here is what I say about my kids. They can say the same thing.

"You take the shot, that way if I catch the disease you can't get it right?"

That is usually enough to shut down most morons. But there is no way I am ever getting another shot or letting my kids do it.


That's not how herd immunity works. Vaccines have, on average, an 85% efficacy rate. That means at least (assuming a 100% population vaccination rate) there are 15 persons per 100 that have weak/little immunity to that given disease. Now, if you or your child choose not to vaccinate, that puts not only YOU at risk, but the fifteen (or more) other people who WERE vaccinated at risk. For every person who chooses not to vaccinate, the herd immunity percentage drops and weakens collective immunity. It's basic statistics.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me

As a healthcare worker myself, I have no problem with this. flu shots, Hepatitis B, TB tests, HIV... It's for my as well the patients safety to have these immunizations current.


My response:

A healthcare worker CHOOSES to work around people who are ill. A healthcare worker can CHOOSE if they wish to stay home when they are ill, stay home and take over the counter meds, or CHOOSE to stay home and take prescribed meds or alternative treatments.

A patient can CHOOSE if they want to take medicine prescribed by a doctor or CHOOSE to take tests prescribed by a doctor, or CHOOSE to follow a diet prescribed by a doctor.

People who are ill go grocery shopping, to the mall, the drugstore, pick up kids at school and daycare, go to the doctors office, and to the hospital. They can be spreading their illness to others where ever they go.

Nobody has the right to do anything to another persons body without their explicit PERMISSION.

As a health care provider, do you do things to your patients bodies without their permission?

If not, why do you think it acceptable to do things to healthcare workers bodies that they don't want?




[mod edit: fixed quote tags]

[edit on 1-9-2010 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by LAinhabitant
A healthcare worker CHOOSES to work around people who are ill. A healthcare worker can CHOOSE if they wish to stay home when they are ill, stay home and take over the counter meds, or CHOOSE to stay home and take prescribed meds or alternative treatments.


And a health care worker can CHOOSE to find another job if their behaviour endangers the people that they are supposed to be helping, as they would be if they refuse to get immunized.

You stay home because symptoms have occurred that make you realize that you are sick, but by that time you may have been contagious for many hours, so that a health care worker with the flu who works around patients with suppressed immune systems may have infected, and quite possibly killed, a number of them before they had their first sniffle.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by LAinhabitant
A healthcare worker CHOOSES to work around people who are ill. A healthcare worker can CHOOSE if they wish to stay home when they are ill, stay home and take over the counter meds, or CHOOSE to stay home and take prescribed meds or alternative treatments.


And a health care worker can CHOOSE to find another job if their behaviour endangers the people that they are supposed to be helping, as they would be if they refuse to get immunized.

You stay home because symptoms have occurred that make you realize that you are sick, but by that time you may have been contagious for many hours, so that a health care worker with the flu who works around patients with suppressed immune systems may have infected, and quite possibly killed, a number of them before they had their first sniffle.


A health care worker risks their life daily going to work in a place where all sorts of people bring numerous strains of bacteria. They risk bringing all these germs home to their families with them on their clothes.

A persons body is their own. You can't start forcing your choice of health care on another person be they a health care worker or not. That is medical fascism.

According to this web site the flu can be contracted numerous ways.
www.pamf.org...

•Contact can occur by direct bodily contact (such as kissing) or touching something with virus on it (such as shaking hands with someone who has the flu) and then touching your mouth, nose or eyes.

•Respiratory droplets are generated by a person coughing or sneezing and can be propelled right into your eyes, nose or mouth over short distances.

•Adults may be able to infect others beginning one day before getting symptoms and up to one week after getting sick. Children can be infectious even longer, sometimes up to several weeks. That means that you can give someone the flu before you know you're sick as well as while you are sick.

ANYONE ANYWHERE could pass the flu on to someone else.

The only real solution to not getting the flu would be for everyone to stay away from other people during flu season. But that would involve you imposing something on yourself.



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