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Are we living in a designer universe?

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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Are we living in a designer universe?


www.telegraph.co.uk

The argument over whether the universe has a creator, and who that might be, is among the oldest in human history. But amid the raging arguments between believers and sceptics, one possibility has been almost ignored – the idea that the universe around us was created by people very much like ourselves, using devices not too dissimilar to those available to scientists today.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Thought this was a really cool article and definitely worth checking out!

Reminded me of Physics at school. I attended a Catholic Grammar school in Ireland and our physics department had the difficult task of connecting the creation of the universe to God whilst attempting to explain the physics of it.

The end result was that God made the Big Bang, which created universe, and thereafter all life as we know it. I always thought it was one or the other. They carefully side stepped any creationist material.


This is quite similar to the theory proposed in the article. Is it possible that the universe was created by someone outside of our plane of being?

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Big Raging Loner]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 09:45 AM
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There would still be the plane of being in which our creators exist.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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Why does everyone always believe the universe has to be some magical metaphysical creation, and not something more down to earth like an extremely advanced super computer? After all, if Moore's Law keeps going like it is right now, we will eventually have the ability to simulate our universe; I would imagine sometime within the next few hundred thousand years.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by depth om
 


Yes they would be in the parent universe?


The mind boggles on this topic. I wanted to convey that they were in a different universe to us but I felt I had already used the word universe too much so I went for plane of existence



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by sliceNodice
 


sometime within the next few hundred thousand years

You left yourself a pretty damn big window! But I agree although I think it could be much sooner.

Surely you could simulate a universe in the near future by just programming in all the laws of physics, and then set the ball rolling and allow whatever can happen, to happen?

I admit this topic is not my specialty on here and I feel it is probably to big for me to fathom, but I am looking forward to reading the replies.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by sliceNodice
 


Because the universe IS magical man! Also I'm not making the connection between something being down to Earth and being super computer like.

This is an interesting read and in my opinion ties into the creationist theories and observing (neutral?) ETs. The article says that they could create the universe but not directly steer the development of it.


An analogy would be with designer babies – instead of tinkering with DNA to get a perfect child, a scientists might tinker with the laws of physics to get a perfect universe. Crucially, though, it would not be possible in any of these cases – even at the most advanced level – for the designers to interfere with the baby universes once they had formed. From the moment of its own Big Bang, each universe would be on its own.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by sliceNodice
Why does everyone always believe the universe has to be some magical metaphysical creation, and not something more down to earth like an extremely advanced super computer? After all, if Moore's Law keeps going like it is right now, we will eventually have the ability to simulate our universe; I would imagine sometime within the next few hundred thousand years.


I was watching sci-fi science with Michau Kaku last night, and its actually much easier than you think...it appears the only real difficulty in recreating a new universal bubble would be getting decent heating to create a singularity...it was decided using a ton of lasers to focus on a single point would accomplish this...

not fully sure of the science behind this, but ultimately its more like a couple hundred years away max, not hundred thousand...and I say couple hundred only because I lack the ability to properly see laser technology improving (it was the episode on transporters)



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Once again the weak minded religious try and force their junk onto sane rational people.

Hate to break it to you, but the whole "it looks designed, therefore it was designed" argument is really weak. By arguing thus you are putting a huge anthropocentric bias onto what we see. If you use your argument we basically are saying 'to our trapped-in christian brains it looks like it was designed for humans'. There are other species on earth as well, and they are not just here to serve us.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Big Raging Loner
 


I guess I should have said, "in a few hundred thousand years if Moore's law continues at its current pace; just a wild guess though (not like I'm the least bit qualified). "

The fastest super computer in the world is having a hard time simulating the brain of a rodent, let alone an entire universe... So that's why I say a few hundred thousand years.

I'm quite a lazy typer, please excuse me.





[edit on 1-9-2010 by sliceNodice]



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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I have always liked the idea that we and our entire universe are but a mere bubble in a test tube,on a bench being tended to by beings 10to the power of 1000 times the size of our entire universe.
And all of time as we know it has happened between heartbeats of our giant lab technician overlords.

Of course,these folks have their own planet,in their own universe,also in a test tube...etc etc.
As above,so below.

Maybe our almost telepathic,but massivley naive thinking has misinterpreted the above through the ages,and so we are left with what we call "religion."

The idea of a super being who created everything-even the laws of physics and nature.

Could be that our particular super bieng/lab technician does not even know of OUR existence due to our size...Maybe they were trying to make petrol/perfume or whatever..

Or maybe s/he was actually trying to create another universe.Sounds crazy?
Sure does,but we are already attempting to do the same!

arstechnica.com...

We are trying to make a baby universe!

Maybe we really are trying to behave "in the image" of our god/lab technician by copying their universe creation routine.

Sorry folks.
Phew,that feels better-mini pyschotic break finished-for now.





posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Silcone Synapse
 


Reminding me of Whosville, only instead of Horton looking in, we have
humongous scientists


We are a living Dr Suess creation.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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I don't believe the universe needs a creator, in fact, it seems like a cop-out to answer the really important question: How does a universe form? Where did it all begin?

If you say that a creator made our universe, we no longer have to address the creation of the universe, but we now have to ask who created the creator? Usually the answer is either "Well we can't understand those questions" which is a cop-out to avoid probing questions on the theory, or my favorite: "Well the creator always existed."

The later is the worst of cop-outs, because it's a logical fallacy. If the creator can always exist, why couldn't the universe? How does that get us any closer to an answer.

No, there is no strong evidence pointing to a creator.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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I think about things like this a lot. I try to consider both science and religion while doing so, drawing on information sources wide and varied. Gnosticism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, even American Indian, Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Greek mysticism, all combined with the great philosophers and scientists of history. I'm a writer, a musician, a computer programmer, and a physicist. I don't blindly accept or reject beliefs; I put them to the test first, inasmuch as it's possible to test them. For untestable things, I simply decide which opposing viewpoint resonates most with me. Gotta pick something. So what have all these years of contemplation yielded? Where to begin...

1) The universe. Only two things are possible regarding its creation: a supernatural, extra-universal entity of unbelievable power, or a spontaneous natural process that, only once apparently, managed to spawn an entire universe out of either literal nothingness or compacted everything-ness. In my own opinion, the universe is too well-organized to have not been designed by an intelligence, and it cannot have come out of nowhere without help. Singularities simply do not explode on their own. If all the matter in the universe collapsed to a single point, that's where it would stay from then on without outside intervention. I therefore have to believe that there is a creator, and the big bang was the method he used to kick-start our very existence. This base conclusion acts as a restraint on The Possible from this point forward in my reasoning. There was a creator, and probably still is.

2) The creator. Whoever created it obviously couldn't have been inside it when he did so. He lives elsewhere if he exists. And if he doesn't exist, how'd that huge singularity explode into you and me and cute little puppies and New Jersey and Betelgeuse and Andromeda, hmm? Physics has no explanation for how the big bang was even possible... but religion does.

3) The human race. The Bible says God created Adam from dust. He was therefore a direct creation of God; Adam did not evolve from lesser beasts. However, absolutely no explanation is ever given for where the Nephilim came from. Those are the guys who were already living on Earth when Adam and Eve got tossed out of the Garden of Eden for disobeying God. I therefore believe that both Creation and Evolution were utilized to create the human race. Why couldn't God have made the Nephilim with a slow evolutionary process over a billion years, and then thrown Adam and Eve into the mix like some kind of starter for making yeast bread? If both creationists and evolutionists are correct, their centuries-long battle with each other starts looking pretty stupid.

4) Eternity. Science defines time as "linear," that is, a straight line with no start or end. Ridiculous. (I disagree with science frequently.) Only a closed geometric figure has no start or end, like a circle ("a snake eating its own tail" if you like). Once a circle exists, you can't see its endpoints anymore. That's how I visualize time in my mind: a circle, no start, no end. And if we exist in a closed circle, a time loop billions of years long, it perfectly explains how eternity can last forever. Now imagine an immortal being who lives in that loop. The very instant that he first exists, he effectively has always existed. You won't find a point along that time loop where that being can't be found, because he's been going around and around it forever. Even if God "hasn't been created yet," he will exist at some point in our future, and that means that he already exists now, and in our past. It's even likely that we are God, but we're his embryonic form, and at some point in the future, like Father Pierre de Chardin postulated in his "Omega Point" theory, all the people worthy of becoming part of God, all those who elevated themselves to a high enough spiritual level while incarnated as a human, will join and become God. Arguments of the form "Well, if we made him, how did he make us first?" fall to pieces inside this time-loop framework because such arguments assume that all beings must conform to the linearity of time, that Cause must always precede Effect. Things are very very weird out there beyond our puny four-dimensional view of reality, and beyond our ability to visualize. Doesn't make it false though. Imagine someone in the fourth century trying to convince people that they lived on a big round ball instead of an infinite, linear flat plane. Sound familiar? The earth is not flat, and neither is time.

Once you've assimilated the above, you should find that you have no remaining questions about the nature of reality and where we came from and why we're here. It's nothing less than a meaning of life: we exist so that the good souls will later join into God, who will then loop around into our past and create us so we can become him. I know it sounds nonsensical to a four-dimensional human, but trust me... it makes perfect sense if you can leave that thought limitation behind. So, ummm, to answer the OP...

Yes. We definitely live in a designer universe, one that we ourselves will design in the future. Well, the good guys. Bad, evil souls, though? "Eternal separation from God" is a widely-accepted definition for "hell." Evil souls will just be discarded, thrown into a pit somewhere so they can't hurt anyone. They will never become part of God, and the rest of us will while they swim in their regrets. Where will the eternal, everlasting part of you end up?


"Remain true to yourself, but move ever upward toward greater consciousness and greater love. At the summit you will find yourselves united with all those who, from every direction, have made the same ascent. For everything that rises must converge."
-- Pierre Teilhard de Chardin



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Thought Provoker
 


A truly awesome post,even if I do not agree with some of it-just a great post all round.

loved this part:


absolutely no explanation is ever given for where the Nephilim came from. Those are the guys who were already living on Earth when Adam and Eve got tossed out of the Garden of Eden for disobeying God


Those are the guys...


I have often pondered the fallan angels,did they burrow into the crust of the earth and become what some have seen as "the greys" ?

Are they still there?



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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So, Douglas Adams had it right all along, albeit on a planetary level...good to know, now does anyone have directions to the Restaurant at the End of the Universe?



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Silcone Synapse
 


I have often pondered the fallen angels, did they burrow into the crust of the earth and become what some have seen as "the greys"? Are they still there?

Fallen angels had to fall to somewhere. I think they were exiled to the Earth. Greys, however, are probably not them. I see nothing in any religious texts anywhere that states categorically that the human race is alone in the universe; in fact, there are alien beings described in Revelation 4:7... "The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle." None of those really sounds like a Grey, but maybe John did the best he could in describing them. Or they could be something else entirely... okay, too much supposition. Ignore that. Let's just say that the existence of alien life is not at odds with scripture.

Far more interesting is Revelation 9, wherein the bottomless pit (or "abyss") is opened. Out of it comes all these carnivorous locusts, and smoke like that from a gigantic furnace. If the fallen angels (demons) are currently trapped down there in all that "fire and brimstone," they'd almost certainly run amok once released. Demons can also take just about any form they want, I believe, so why not flying flesh-eating "scorpions of the earth?" They're also not allowed to kill anyone, interestingly, just torture them. Demons can only kill people in Hollywood fictions.

And who else is in that bottomless pit with them? "They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon." Satan, in other words. Revelation 9:11, that verse is. Interestinger and interestinger, eh?

Sulfur is mentioned a whole lot in connection with Satan and that abyss. Know where else it's mentioned a lot? Volcanism. Sulfur is one of the key indicators scientists look for when predicting eruptions; the more sulfurous gases are escaping from a vent, the more likely that vent will suddenly explode with little warning. So where on earth might we find a bottomless pit soaked with sulfur and fire, currently sealed up but easily releasable given enough mechanical force at the right spot? Well, that's easy. The whole earth fits that description. It's a crust of solid rock covering a sphere of molten rock. The entire core of earth is a bottomless pit; if you fell into it, gravity would keep you falling until you got to the center, and the lack of gravity would then keep you there. It would be like falling forever, just like space shuttles do around the earth at 17,000 MPH. So now all we need to find is a way into that abyss, the "shaft" mentioned in Rev. 9:1, and the prophecies of Revelation become utterly believable.

How many of you have seen this image? It's the shaft leading from the earth's molten core to a certain magma chamber under a certain sulfurous American national park named "Yellowstone" (which is a friggin' synonym for "sulfur", as much so as "brimstone"). Looks pretty shaft-like to me. If the ultra-thin layer of solid rock sealing it off is cracked open, it becomes a lake of fire, a bottomless pit filled with liquid rock, doesn't it? Are there any Biblical clues about that?

Of course there are. Revelation 9:1 again; I didn't quote the whole thing first time around... "The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss." I shouldn't have to spell it out any further than that, but in the interest of provoking thought... A falling star is a meteor or asteroid, isn't it? If there's ever an asteroid strike directly on top of Yellowstone, even a tiny tiny tiny one, it will crack open, and massively bad days will follow from then on even without carnivorous, fireproof locusts involved.

Anyone else out there a believer yet?



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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This was a great article. John Gribbin happens to be one of my favorite authors because he makes such lofty subject matter accessible to the likes of math flunkies such as myself, and this article is no different. He makes the creation of a universe sound simple.

Personally I find the idea that we are almost intelligent enough to create a new universe very comforting on many levels.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by sliceNodice
Why does everyone always believe the universe has to be some magical metaphysical creation, and not something more down to earth like an extremely advanced super computer? After all, if Moore's Law keeps going like it is right now, we will eventually have the ability to simulate our universe; I would imagine sometime within the next few hundred thousand years.


Everyone? You're the one citing the Matrix.




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