Why are we forced to pay for electricity and water?

Why people or companys would invest their money in machinery, lines and all that is need to produce electricity for free?

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by humbleseeker

 

Wow, how many times do I have to restate this:

I get that we can manage by living off candles and pumping our own water...ideas which are actually absurd when you consider it is not necessary these days to live like friggin' cavemen.

Let's take my state of California. It's pretty much true across the board in my state that every household and every business is charged a monthly fee for use of electricity, gas, and water. My household is two-bedroom/one-bath. My electric/gas bill runs anywhere from $100 to $250+ per month depending upon the time of year. My water bill, which includes garbage and refuse pickup, runs around $100, most of which is for the water service. If my city has 250,000+ residents, and another unknown number of businesses paying these monthly fees, the figures total in the tens of millions PER MONTH. I have a hard time believing that it takes that much money to provide these services each month even if you're including the salaries of the employees who work for the plants.

Do you think your electricity just appears out of nowhere at no cost to the utility? Most of California's electricity comes from coal, oil, or natural gas powered generating plants. The average cost of coal is right at 50.00 per ton. Actually, a better way of looking at it is that it costs about $2.27 per MMBTU for fossil fuels for generators. Now, a BTU is roughly .0003 kWh, so a kilowatt hour is about 3400 kWh. The average retail price for electricity is about a dime/kWh. www.eia.doe.gov... You can probably do the math.So, I guess you want the coal miners to work for free? And the coal has to get to CA from the mine somehow. Do you want the truckers and train companies to pay for their fuel out of their own pockets so you can play on your computer for free. And the construction workers who built the generating plant should, I guess, not be paid. As well as the linemen, engineers, secretaries, etc.
I don't know who your electric provider is but, as an example, Edison, a big CA provider had a return on investment so far this year, of less than 3%.
That's not exactly a windfall profit. Maybe you would prefer Europe, where the cost is more than double the US. www.novinite.com...

It is absurd that we pay PROFITS for these services. I realize they can't be free but I do not think that profit should be a part fo the equation. I would add food staples and basic telecommunications to the list as well.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
It is absurd that we pay PROFITS for these services. I realize they can't be free but I do not think that profit should be a part fo the equation. I would add food staples and basic telecommunications to the list as well.

Then pack your bags and move somewhere where the electricity provider is either a non-profit co-op or non profit municipal system. Then dig a well and buy a mule and plow to grow your own food. Or move to a fully communist nation where the "necessities" are provided by the government. Have fun.
Or wait, maybe you really believe we should take the money from investors to build the power plants and not give them anything in return. Now that's wealth redistribution you can believe in.

You don't need electricity to survive. It is a luxury.
Water is free, you are paying for the privilege of not having to go out and pull buckets everytime you need a shower.

Originally posted by TheOracle
You don't need electricity to survive. It is a luxury.
Water is free, you are paying for the privilege of not having to go out and pull buckets everytime you need a shower.

Not true, I had many properties with wells, there are well pumps now; you know that pumps it right into the pipes, welcome to technology! I never paid water until I moved to a major metropolitan area, oh and you can filter the well water just as easily...if you have the know how you can find your own water, dig your own well, set up a filtration sytem and a sesspool and a pump to distribute it. It's called self reliance, I don't need to pay for my water.
However I do agree that electricity is a luxury, you know how I know this, the Amish! They use no electricity.And they're surviving just fine. However you could also have your own electricity, If Government didn't step in and make you go through the highway robbery companies, but they will if you try to. Remember the Arizona woman who was using solar panels... yeah.
Windmills and solar panels and hydro electric could be done by each and every single person with a little help from a one time contractor... with a one time fee. This is just an illusion, the dependancy on others in this time is just sickening!!!! We need no one to depend on, you know dependancy leads to laziness, Don't you? This is why everybody is so complacent with being lead like sheep, it's really disheartening. "We need to pay for it because we're weak, feeble minded losers; WWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHH"

[edit on 31-8-2010 by ldyserenity]

Starting to see the root of many views here.... profits vs entitlements.

The reason so many things have been invented and man has advanced is profit. Edison invented the light bulb so that man could advance out of the dark...no, he made money. Ford advanced the automobile for the goodness of man...no, he did it for profit. Tang was made to provide Vitamin c to poor nations...no, to make money.

In stead of complaining like a small child, many should go out, find a need, and make a profit.

I cut and sell firewood... in 3 hours i can cut, bust, and load a pick up truckload and be on the way to your house... for $60.00. the wood comes off my land... minus gas for delivery and chainsaw maintainance..I walk away with about 50 bucks...profit.

The reason electric COMPANIES succeed is profit... for their shareholders and investors. Also, differentiate between gross profit and net profit.

See, someone or some group saw a need...invested some money, put together a plan, built and developed and maintained a business to provide electricity. You as a customer, decided to purchase their product... electricity. If you do not want their product... then decline it or move or seek other alternatives.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


And you really think there was a need for money??? Sad sad sad, what a sorry A&& state of affairs contrary to popular belief money is not a necessity of living and it does not make the world go round. All it does is give the reins to a small group of insipid horder/slave drivers!

reply to post by ldyserenity


There has been and always will be a need for some things of value as long as the world turns.

My suggestion to you would be to get off the grid and go live along the Appalachian Trail... there is a vast community of people that have dropped out of society and live the idyllic life you seek.

Or go and live in the desert, or along the coast like the Ft.Fisher Hermit.

But no matter where you go or the lifestyle you seek, there will always be some things that are valued more than others... money is just one means of exchanging calue.... you could use barter, or trade skills, or craft, or man hours.

For instance, you want to live off the fat of the land... just as God intended. What value do you place on an axe?...or a rope?... or matches?... or a cast iron frying pan..... or will you actually live as the indians did? Even they saw the benefits of steel tools, blankets, good boots.

Sitting up there on Roan Mtn. while it is snowing, will you wish for an axe to build a cabin or chop wood...what value is a fishing lure? What would you trade?

There in lies the roots of value, and monetary exchange... I sell firewood...can't give it away in July.... can sell it for extra $10 when it is snowing.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

There has been and always will be a need for some things of value as long as the world turns.

My suggestion to you would be to get off the grid and go live along the Appalachian Trail

I would love to live like the Indians did before whitey came and wiped them out almost completely(I am white so) but anyway, sadly my children have to have these things liek electricity as they can remove them if I do not have it, which is the conundrum, I have no beef with having it as a choice, but that's not the case, it is a requirement now, electricity, etc, by some stupid laws to make some greedy Fat A&& rich and therein lies the sad state of affairs in which I was referring.

The ideal way to do this would be communal, no trade, no barter, certain people just do certain tasks to benefit the unit. It's give and take and the sick the young and the elderly are all provided for also by the unit...Hey but that's just to unrealistic right? I don't beleive it is, I beleive it is exactly what nature intended, ie lion dens, wolf packs, and schools of fish. Just my two cents. But this vision has to be led by humanity, which seems to be a very faint fairy tale lately. That's Sad!

[edit on 31-8-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by ldyserenity


All I am hearing are reasons why you can't live like you want to.... move to a state where you can live like you want to. There's more than a few around... NC is one...Alaska is another. Plenty in between...

You can homeschool, grow your own food, have a well, set up some solar panels and hot water thermal drums, passive solar heating, preserve your own foods, raise some livestock to sell or barter for certain needs...

What is holding you back? I have faith in you and your abilities...

People sure hate to pay for things, but damn if they dont want a big paycheck and a quarterly review for their job!!!

Yup I didnt even bother reading the entire post, nor will I come back to it.

Say their is "free" energy which their is not, what do you do with all the people who work at oil pumps, gas refineries, coal plants, gas stations, tire manufactures, etc.

They all just lose out because you want free energy, well guess what, thats a huge part of the work force and if they lose their jobs, guess what....?? They wont be buying the widget you produce at your place of work!!!!

We need to get over this socialistic way of thinking... nothing is free. If I dont pay for electricity, well hell I dont want to pay for welfare recipients either, or for my house!!! screw the framers, plumbers, brick layers, electricians that built it. I want everything for free!!!!!!!!!

Im so sick of this mentality on here... you really just dont get it do you!!!!

Because it costs money to buy the fuel produce electricity, pay the employees, fix broken machinery and downed wires, they have to buy all the supplies and hardware. Now for the water, Because it costs money to produce clean water, pay the employees, fix broken machinery and pipes, they have to buy all the supplies and hardware.

[edit on 05/24/2010 by FrancoUn-American]

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

There has been and always will be a need for some things of value as long as the world turns.

My suggestion to you would be to get off the grid and go live along the Appalachian Trail

I would love to live like the Indians did before whitey came and wiped them out almost completely(I am white so) but anyway, sadly my children have to have these things liek electricity as they can remove them if I do not have it, which is the conundrum, I have no beef with having it as a choice, but that's not the case, it is a requirement now, electricity, etc, by some stupid laws to make some greedy Fat A&& rich and therein lies the sad state of affairs in which I was referring.



[edit on 31-8-2010 by ldyserenity]

You can come to South America or go to Central America if you want to live with Indians.

There still a lot of places with people who live with no modern luxury.

Originally posted by humbleseeker
You are not forced to pay for water or electricity, You could use candles for light and do things the way they did for thousands of years. As for water you could go collect it from your locol river or lake ect... then boil it over a fire pit, so that it is clean.

So when you pay your energy bill, this is the convenience that you are paying for. I think I will pay my little bill and enjoy the comforts that it brings.

But in a global perspective, there are still countries where even if you had the money...electricity and clean water isnt available to the public.

The only reason we pay so much for water and electricity is because they are privatized and the CEOs need to keep gouging the consumers so they can keep their mansions in Richistan USA and let no forget in foreign countries also.

BTW, is many states that wants to charges fees and taxes for people when they are not link to city water resources, meaning even if they have a well they still have to pay the city for not using their water

[edit on 1-9-2010 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
The only reason we pay so much for water and electricity is because they are privatized and the CEOs need to keep gouging the consumers so they can keep their mansions in Richistan USA and let no forget in foreign countries also.

Well here Water and Electricity is not privatized and we still pay a lot, and the service sucks, the electric one, lol, in my country Venezuela, i live in the state which produces more than the 50% of the electricity the country use and we still have cuts every week.

The service was better when it was privatized.

reply to post by NightGypsy

Nathan-D, while I agree that the above is true, that does not mean that society as a whole, if provided bare necessities required to survive, would devolve down to the mentality of those who make a career out of leaching off the government, causing a complete economic meltdown. Besides, isn't it kind of a moot point to ponder a potential economic crisis that may occur given the fact we're already in one?

Maybe not. I'm no psychologist so I'm not really qualified to say what would happen, but the number of people leaching off the government in the UK is staggeringly high, and it's currently illegal, so if it was made legal, that number would rise indefinitely. Maybe it would cause an economic meltdown, who knows? As a species we've been living off the bare-essentials for 99% of the time we've been on this planet. It's not unreasonable to think that people who live on the bare-essentials are less unhappy than those who indulge themselves in ultimately spiritually meaningless garbage (i.e. TV, magazines, materialistic possessions, etc).

People should be entitled to water,and air. They should be able to forage off roadsides as far as I am concerned.

I hope they don't start charging for air.