Free market has turned us into 'Matrix' drones

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Gotcha - please see my previous post.

And again, I'll add my apologies for getting sidetracked and addressing the wrong issue.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by redoubt

 

Which is why, throughout the thread, I have stressed the point that none of it matters unless people become less selfish.

Now, I don't necessarily disagree with what you just said, I just don't see the point.

There is this thing that most people completely miss, and that is that each human life is accountable for him or herself alone. Nobody needs to ask for permission to be good or bad, right or wrong, up or down, gay or normal, mean or nice, fat or skinny... none of it. And when you start to suggest otherwise... as in asking that people should become less selfish, you immediately cross the line. You will make enemies even of those who realize you are right.

From there, your message becomes lost in a furball of arguing and accusation.

The human dynamic is imperfection... and you can't have imperfect beings leading imperfect beings to a point of perfection.

The concept of government, any government at all, is immaterial to the dynamic.

You do what you want to, though. That's part of it too.

reply to post by redoubt


The point of it is that in order for us to evolve in a societal way, we have to become less insular, and more accepting that we have an obligation to society as a whole.

Of course, if we want the species to die out or never evolve past our current state, then the above is irrelevant.

A person should be responsible NOT just for themselves but also for their part in society - of course I am not speaking about now, but this process is something I believe must take place for us to progress as a species.

Capitalism is the natural way people organize - the problem is not capitalism - it is monopolization, corruption and the fraudulent foundation of fiat money that is the problem.

Capitalism is simply exchanging goods and services for like values, and people bringing together resources to achieve a certain result.

When you use fake capital - then you don't have capitalism at all - the US has not been capitalist for over 100 years.

Yeah, sure, "free market" capitalism.

You know what, I'll call it "free market" capitalism if you agree that communism failed too. Deal?

Unfortunately we haven't had capitalism for a very long time indeed (if ever). At best its a form of corporatism.

Another point, keynesian economics on the scale we're seeing at present is only possible because our money is no longer a true storage of value. Keynesian economics and fiat money systems go hand in hand and ultimately always end in disaster.

Originally posted by budski

The problem as I see it is, is that because of the conditioning aspects of capitalism it is hard to imagine any other system.

Human nature also plays a part - the attitude of "I want what he/she's got"

The re-conditioning of human nature to target comsumer products to emotional desire truely began with the work of Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud, who took Freud's theories of unconscious desires and the wish for fulfilment and married that to advertising and marketing to create a truely formidable tool of popular manipulation.

If you've never seen the series "The Century of the Self" that details the history and the rise of this phenomenon, you can watch it online. It will open your eyes to the subtle ways that population has been shaped, directed, and been persuaded what to buy/think.

Google Video - "The Century of the Self"

Originally posted by newfc12
Unfortunately we haven't had capitalism for a very long time indeed (if ever). At best its a form of corporatism.

Another point, keynesian economics on the scale we're seeing at present is only possible because our money is no longer a true storage of value. Keynesian economics and fiat money systems go hand in hand and ultimately always end in disaster.

Corporatism is driven by capitalists, those who want to own the means of production.

Corporations were not set up by socialists to better the workers, corporations were set up to help serve those with the money, the capitalists.

I rent a farm which produces vegetables for the local market, is there anything wrong with me trying to own the means of production (the farm?).

At the end of the day regardless of the economic system someone has to produce the goods and services (even for oneself) otherwise we have nothing. Capitalism, in its purest form, is nothing if not a system through which bad business decisions result in failure and good business decisions result in success. Capitalism dictates that bad firms should GO UNDER, continuous interference from government only serves to skew the market. Like plugging a leaking dam the government will eventually run out of fingers.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Technically a capitalist is someone who produces goods (or provides a service) and wishes to trade these goods and service on the open market. Money was only ever required to allow for easier exchange of goods and services and is not necessarily required for capitalism to function.

reply to post by newfc12


but how do you stop capitalists buying more business's in turn creating a monopoly. This monopoly allows you to buy more things like media outlets, the wealth created can be used to corrupt elected officials to serve you and further your wealth. Isn't that what we have seen

reply to post by citizen smith


That's a very good point, and I'll be sure to have a watch of the vid.

Thanks for posting it

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Yes I agree that is a huge problem. I would say that one of the few functions of government would be to ensure the market remains free and fair and to break monopolies when they form.

Unfortunately the reason a lot of these monopolies are able to exist in the first place is a result of laws passed by lobbied (bribed) government officials. We have no system to police government.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by newfc12

 

but how do you stop capitalists buying more business's in turn creating a monopoly. This monopoly allows you to buy more things like media outlets, the wealth created can be used to corrupt elected officials to serve you and further your wealth. Isn't that what we have seen

You convince people to not sell their businesses to them.

I'd say that "free market capitalism" went out the window in about 1890 when all the big corporations and monopolies took over the economy and the political parties. Gradually, they squeezed out a lot of the small farmers, artisans and shop owners who were the real basis of free market capitalism. That's when most of the people in the country became employees rather than small property owners.

Even when you own a house today, you're basically an employee of some big bank or corporation for 30 years, paying off a mortgage.


At some point, the big business interests also learned that they could do well by getting all kinds of subsidies from the government. They learned that in the Civil War and World War I--and definitely in World War II. That's why I have always said that big business, big government and the national security state all go hand-in-hand.

You could say they all grew up together at the same time, and often it's the same people running all these inistitutions. They just move around from one to the other, sometimes working for corporations, sometimes for teh state.