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Free market has turned us into 'Matrix' drones

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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:30 AM
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double post

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]




posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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All attempts at communism resulted in bloody messes. I suspect it's inherently flawed and cannot be implemented properly. I'd like to see someone address that problem.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by budski
 




Free market has turned us into 'Matrix' drones

A very interesting article, which shows how we have been conditioned to accept that "capitalism is best" when in fact, everyone who knows anything at all about economics knows that the "drip down" theory is a fallacy at best and a control mechanism at worst.


I am continually amazed, though not surprised anymore, when I read articles like this. It really does seem that if anything, we have this innate ability to blame the inanimate and immaterial for our own human imperfections.

Examples are numerous and familiar; we blame God and faith for wrongs committed by people. We hold guns responsible for crimes and deaths that were committed by people and now, we blame what amounts to a national operating system for our own greed and sloth.

Yes, of course, the system programmed us to be this way... we had no choice and therefore, bear no personal responsibility! The devil made us do it!

*sigh*

Capitalism, Socialism... whatever. Any and all of it is immaterial without people to use and abuse... to seek out and exploit, to access to excess the material wealth and decadence we ourselves would hope for regardless of where or how we lived.

In fact, I think I will blame my parents, government and cigarette industry for my tobacco habit. It's not my fault.



EDIT: Typo

[edit on 31-8-2010 by redoubt]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


Which is why, throughout the thread, I have stressed the point that none of it matters unless people become less selfish.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by RKWWWW
 


Would you like to address the fact that communism has never been tried?

Certain political leaders may have tried to dress up socialism as communism to create an enemy, but the reality is AS I KEEP EXPLAINING that communism has NEVER been practiced.



[edit on 31/8/2010 by budski]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by RKWWWW
 


Would you like to address the fact that communism has never been tried?

Certain political leaders may have tried to dress up socialism as communism to create an enemy, but the reality is AS I KEEP EXPLAINING that communism has NEVER been practiced.



[edit on 31/8/2010 by budski]



I think a reasonable person would look at history and conclude communism was indeed, in so much as was humanly possible, "tried" on more than one occasion and the results were dismal. For whatever reason, to date, communism seems to be impossible to implement successfully. I think it would behoove those who still think it a viable system to address that instead of naively, or possibly disingenuously, claiming it's never been tried.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Holy crap! This guy and me need to sit down and talk for maybe a month about the way things work at the moment! Hes basicaly singing the tune I have been singing since I was ten! I love it!
I agree completely with his words about equal oppertunities, and equal outcomes. I seriously havent had this much in common with an Economist in.... well hell my whole life, usualy I just want to slap them and tell them to get a real job, but this guy knows his stuff!



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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This guy is plant or something, he sounds just like a neocon
and it's always easy to spot the neocons and corrupt or bought people
all they do is criticize but they never have a solution, it's because what he is saying isn't logical that he has no solution, I guarantee you this.

Neocons love the welfare state and hate everything that has to do with freedom, like free market economics.

Name me one thing that he said that makes sense apart from the internet or washing machine.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW



I think a reasonable person would look at history and conclude communism was indeed, in so much as was humanly possible, "tried" on more than one occasion and the results were dismal. For whatever reason, to date, communism seems to be impossible to implement successfully. I think it would behoove those who still think it a viable system to address that instead of naively, or possibly disingenuously, claiming it's never been tried.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]


Completely, totally, and utterly wrong.

It's in the communist manifesto - communism evolves from a successfull socialist state which has met certain conditions and requirements.

You're wrong, face up to it, and stop trying to shift the goalposts.

Socialism is as far from true communism as karl marx was from hitlers ideology.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Free market economics do not exist.
They are a myth perpetuated to make people feel better about being in a perpetual state of virtual slavery.

Drip down economics is a myth as well.

If you'd read the thread you would know that we do not practise capitalism, or true free market economics.
We practise keynesian economics.

When governments and other agencies become involved, a free market cannot exist - it always ends up manipulated or biased.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Good thread, I'll keep my eye on this one.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by RKWWWW



I think a reasonable person would look at history and conclude communism was indeed, in so much as was humanly possible, "tried" on more than one occasion and the results were dismal. For whatever reason, to date, communism seems to be impossible to implement successfully. I think it would behoove those who still think it a viable system to address that instead of naively, or possibly disingenuously, claiming it's never been tried.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]


Completely, totally, and utterly wrong.

It's in the communist manifesto - communism evolves from a successfull socialist state which has met certain conditions and requirements.

You're wrong, face up to it, and stop trying to shift the goalposts.

Socialism is as far from true communism as karl marx was from hitlers ideology.


Communism has a PR problem. In case you haven't noticed, by and large, in the minds of most, it's been consigned the scrap heap of history. Even socialists aren't too keen on meeting "certain conditions and requirements" and making a transition to communism. So communism doesn't work from the ground up, there aren't many willing socialist "takers", and apparently it's status can't get beyond the mental masterbation stage. Good luck with that.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by budski
Free market economics do not exist.

Of course it does, just not in the U.S. right now


Originally posted by budski
They are a myth perpetuated to make people feel better about being in a perpetual state of virtual slavery.

But that's not what he is saying, he is saying Free Market Economics sucks


Originally posted by budski
We practise keynesian economics.

Yes of course, I agree

Originally posted by budski
When governments and other agencies become involved, a free market cannot exist - it always ends up manipulated or biased.

Once again I agree, but that's not what he is saying

just look at the headline:
Free market has turned us into 'Matrix' drones

This is what I was debating on

he is sure of the problem – arguing that free-market capitalism has left the global economy more unstable

So you are basically saying you disagree with him?



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



First off, can you name a time when free market economics have existed, rather than the Keynesian version we have right now, and have had throught the 20th century?

And secondly, of course the current version of capitalism has de-stableised world markets - we have seen that over the last couple of years with the banking crisis, and we are likely to see more of it in the future.

Sorry, I thought I had already covered this.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW


Communism has a PR problem. In case you haven't noticed, by and large, in the minds of most, it's been consigned the scrap heap of history. Even socialists aren't too keen on meeting "certain conditions and requirements" and making a transition to communism. So communism doesn't work from the ground up, there aren't many willing socialist "takers", and apparently it's status can't get beyond the mental masterbation stage. Good luck with that.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]


Regardless - your statement makes no sense, because as I keep saying COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN PRACTISED.

Is that so hard for you to understand?

You can dress it up any way you want - hell, you can take it to the prom for all I care, but your constant attempts to make something that is clear into something that is ambiguous are not helping the subject matter.

If you want to continue with this fixation of yours, why not start a thread suggesting that socialism is communism and has been practiced and failed.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by RKWWWW


Communism has a PR problem. In case you haven't noticed, by and large, in the minds of most, it's been consigned the scrap heap of history. Even socialists aren't too keen on meeting "certain conditions and requirements" and making a transition to communism. So communism doesn't work from the ground up, there aren't many willing socialist "takers", and apparently it's status can't get beyond the mental masterbation stage. Good luck with that.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by RKWWWW]


Regardless - your statement makes no sense, because as I keep saying COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN PRACTISED.

Is that so hard for you to understand?

You can dress it up any way you want - hell, you can take it to the prom for all I care, but your constant attempts to make something that is clear into something that is ambiguous are not helping the subject matter.

If you want to continue with this fixation of yours, why not start a thread suggesting that socialism is communism and has been practiced and failed.


Than we both agree ---- communism has never gotten beyond the mental masterbation stage. Any other loser philosophies you subscribe to?



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW

Than we both agree ---- communism has never gotten beyond the mental masterbation stage. Any other loser philosophies you subscribe to?


Something I've said for 2 pages now - theory which has never been practiced, but which in theory does not reward greed or lust for power.

Blimey, you really DO have a reading comprehension problem.

I'm gonna go ahead and pop you on ignore now, because you are just a person on a wind up mission.

Ta-ta.

[edit on 31/8/2010 by budski]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by RKWWWW

Than we both agree ---- communism has never gotten beyond the mental masterbation stage. Any other loser philosophies you subscribe to?


Something I've said for 2 pages now - theory which has never been practiced, but which in theory does not reward greed or lust for power.

Blimey, you really DO have a reading comprehension problem.

I'm gonna go ahead and pop you on ignore now, because you are just a person on a wind up mission.

Ta-ta.

[edit on 31/8/2010 by budski]



Ignore. The last refuge of a loser. Buh bye.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


My apologies, I got sidetracked with threads in other forums - juggling too many eggs at one time.

I've put some down now, and you have my full attention


The premise is that we are strolling around without a care in the world, being told everything is OK, when in reality economies are crashing down around us, leading the auther in the OP to allude to a matrix like state the populace of the world is engaged in.

I'd pretty much go along with that, but as I wanted to add a conspiracy twist, I am more interested in the media and government manipulation of the truth of the situation, as well as the economic realities of it.

Of course, this may take us slightly off the track the author had beaten out for us (in some respects) but also brings up some favourite ATS topics.



[edit on 31/8/2010 by budski]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by budski
First off, can you name a time when free market economics have existed, rather than the Keynesian version we have right now, and have had throught the 20th century?

We are all Keynesians now - Nixon

But that's not what i was arguing on, and what you are saying is not even what this author from the article is saying.

Look what is being said here
Ron Paul Explains to Keynesian Economics Professor Why Inflation is Bad


In any case, I think you and me both agree but you assumed that I was replying to you and not the article.

Once again I was replying to the ARTICLE, not any member post here.
thx



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