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The illusion of free will is the greatest illusion

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posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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* NOTE: Don't believe any of the words i'm about to write.

For the unconscious ego, the concept of free will is unquestionable. It is part of the conditioning that stems from societal ideologies as well as the memory of the race. If this ego was to be told that free will is just an illusion, he would certainly reject it and he would be correct in doing so, for it is part of the program that he must follow in order to benefit the soul experience.

When the experience of the soul is sufficient, a new understanding emerges regarding the concept of free will. The ego that awakens to the reality of things (awareness) is able to understands the multi-dimensional aspects of the self (not psychologically), he can clearly see the game of life (programming), and all the manipulations that are present within the mind.

The concept of free will was imposed on the consciousness of man in order to fully experiment the physical realm. This "impression" was imposed by the spirit of man (source, cosmic counterpart) and was necessary for the development of the ego. To the awaken, this concept is clearly seen and the astrological programming becomes evident.

When the ego reaches higher states of consciousness, he is less affected emotionally by the program. When full consciousness (fusion with the source) is achieved, the program and all of the memories associated with it are transferred to the universal records. He can then move on and start the process of creative actions, either in the physical realm or in higher realms of reality, depending on his universal and vibrational status.

Peace and light to all





[edit on 30-8-2010 by lagenese]




posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:32 PM
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I really dont get it

its stupid in my opinion to believe we dont have a free will

even if there is something else controlling us directly from other dimension, we would be that being, therefore, he would have free will

I dont get at all this crazy theory that we dont have free will


even if we are all virtual, in a little kid experiment, we would have free will in this thing



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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I don't quite understand what you are saying,
but I agree that "the free will" idea is an illusion.

It is just one more mechanism of our
imprisonment. If you think you are free,
you will not be looking for freedom.

Fortunately, there are cracks or "bugs in the program,"
to cause us to question reality.

We have free will in the same way the fish in the ocean have free
will to go anywhere and do anything as long as they stay in ...the ocean.

Some fish don't even realize that they are in an ocean, or that they are
breathing in water for that matter.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Faiol
 


I understand your comment and respect it. This is why i put a note at the top of my post. Whenever i write controversial stuff, people are usually confused and sometimes angry, and it's perfectly normal. The only thing i must do whenever i sense the need for it, is to channel energy, and the best way for me to accomplish this is by writing.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by lagenese
 

On the contrary you can have free will more than you think, you can connect and break off, creator of the universe does not want people to be robots.
It's when you seal the top and you are on your own, you are energy in a container so you can open the top and get connected or close the top and be on your own. On your own is not against the rules but you know remember to get connected with the divine. It's two choices, one is individual second is connected to god, none of them are bad, bad is what you chose to do, I don't think we were made to walk around like robots, and I don't think becoming too individualistic is good either. So life is about expiriance, it's why we are here, to live it out, see how it is.

You have been tricked there is no illusion, if you would be able to see into the dark you would know what I mean.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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Amazing thread! This reminds me of when I first wondered about free will. Asking one's self if choice (free will) is an illusion is one of the most ludicrous questions that a "person" can ask. I agree that it seems unquestionable to a soul who lacks experience. I explored the idea with an open mind, but all I was reaching at first was an "occult" understanding of the illusion of free will. Then I had my first experience of "knowing". Since then, a vibrational understanding of free will has taken me to a whole new understanding of "the original sin".

Thank you for sharing Mr. La Genese!
Peace and light ^_^
DR



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by tungus


Fortunately, there are cracks or "bugs in the program,"
to cause us to question reality.



The bugs in the program are the result of higher conscious states. Let's just say that the "safety" switch is turned off in order to see reality in a very different perspective.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by lagenese
 


I didnt get angry or confused

I just think its madness to write something you cant know anything about it ...

its just a theory, and a very poor one, without any type of detail


Originally posted by tungus
I don't quite understand what you are saying,
but I agree that "the free will" idea is an illusion.

It is just one more mechanism of our
imprisonment. If you think you are free,
you will not be looking for freedom.

Fortunately, there are cracks or "bugs in the program,"
to cause us to question reality.

We have free will in the same way the fish in the ocean have free
will to go anywhere and do anything as long as they stay in ...the ocean.

Some fish don't even realize that they are in an ocean, or that they are
breathing in water for that matter.


there are 2 types of free will

one, about our life as general
two, about our body

if you talk about our life as general, I would agree that we are in a prison, we need to do things according to what people thought it was best

but to say we dont have a choice, like, coke or pepsi, or something like that, its just theory, since there is nothing for u to be based in



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


If you could see in the dark you would understand ?

Could you please elaborate on this.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


I respect your opinion. In my understanding and experience, the ego has no choice, and the ultimate goal for this ego is to discover what i would call the great cosmic lie imposed on the souls that are incarnating on this planet. It is very hard for an ego to look at this with an objective attitude because of the conditioning present within the physical experience.

Edit to add: I know the dark side and i know the light.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by lagenese]



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by Faiol
 


I respect your opinion and i understand your statement. The illusion of free will, in my experience and understanding, even extends to the thinking process. If an unprepared ego was to find out that the thinking process was not his own, if he was to see the extent of the manipulation that stems from the invisible realms that are dominating the human experience, this ego would go totally insane and lose his spirit.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by navione
 

Can't you see, you are getting brain washed, plane and simple, if you could see in the dark you would see the meta phisical world the way it is. This with 2000 milion dimensions is just illusion. They have twisted the truth in such a way that it would make you think all there is ..is illusion, the mind can be twisted, it's what they want, they want control of you and you have to give in.

Do you think they are going to sell secrets to you ?
When you go on a jorney you do not project into the light, not everyone can do it, you have to have a diet, years of condition and practice and you could go to the metaphisical realm, it's the duality of nature.

What they are selling now is just crap .



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by lagenese
 


LOL

lets say its true, that everything I am doing right now it comes from some other dimension as you say it does

what does that mean? it doesnt change anything

it just means we are connected to some other being in another dimension ... thats all, and we are them ...

I really dont think anyone would be NUTS and lose its spirit if they found out they didnt think for themselves

and lets be real, if somebody did say that to them, they would say: you are nuts

and they would keep going their lives ...



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by lagenese
 

"bad is what you chose to do"

- Interesting. and to a certain linear point, I used to agree. It made perfect sense until I discovered what the brain really is. Not to mention where thoughts actually stem from. If you are really going to poke around about the illusion of free will with an open mind, ask yourself how a brain transmits thoughts to your consciousness (or rather, how your consciousness transmits thoughts to your brain). This will become self evident in with future scientific advancements.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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I would wager that over 99% of everything we do is done on autopilot, which does not allow for free will. If you want free will, you have to work at it, and learn to break those cycles of autopilot.

Free will is probably about as common as lucid dreams are, and even lucid dreams are not a guarantee of free will. As long as you go along with the plot, accept things as real, you don't have free will. I'd go as far as to say that if you've never experienced a lucid dream, then you've never experienced free will. Not to say that it's limited to lucid dreaming, but that free will is the waking equivalent to lucid dreaming.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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I am curious how you came up with this idea?

While it is true there are many unseen influences on humanity they are all choices. And yes most people follow the influence of Soul or higher self that leads us into circumstances for our progression and learning still it is all based on free choice. One can choose to ignore those influences and go on thier own and some do. These are they that wonder endlessly on dark paths.

Their are spiritual cycles so to speak the run through all things and they pull us along in different directions however still we can choose to follow or not. etc. Free will is essential to progression and I submit to you that not only do we have a choice but that decision is the very essence of our existence on this plane and on higher planes.

Think about it what is there that is not a decision? Just because we are being nudged into certain paths or pulled long by certain spiritual currents does not mean free will does not exists. If it is all a script or a program as you suggest then that would mean murderers rapist etc. would not be responsible for thier actions since they had no choice. There would be no need for karma or cause and effect. The soul does not lead one into such dark paths.

This reminds me of some of the Christians who claim God is pulling all the strings and there is nothing we can do about it we are all predestined to and have no choice.

This theory actually sounds like a ploy by the ego to get you to submit to it as the dominate force. IOW resistance is futile you will be assimilated... to the ego...


What better way then to get one to give up and not be responsible for ones actions then to believe you have no choice...

Same illusion different dress and different color lipstick in my opinion


[edit on 31-8-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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So you're saying if you have a decision to make, and if you would normally decide X in almost all cases, but think about how you can influence the outcome, and decide Y, you had no choice in the matter and it was inevitable?



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 02:14 AM
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I do not claim to know how the free-will argument is debated from a secular standpoint, but from a Christian standpoint, I've read books and listened to the Calvinist's arguments -- and I still don't buy it. What I mean is, I don't buy the proposition that we have NO free will.

I don't like the term "free will" anyway because the Calvinists that I have talked to use it to mean: "can do ANYTHING" -- which is obviously false.

I agree with them...
I cannot breathe under water unaided, even if I want to.
I cannot spread my arms and fly.
I cannot comprehend the speed of light.

But what I don't agree with is that because there are things that I cannot do, that this proves that I have no free will. Their error is that they misunderstand what free will really means.

And so I like the term, "freedom of the will". We can't do EVERYTHING, but we DO have moral freedoms. From a Christian POV, it's not so much about choosing what color socks to put on or when to cut your hair -- rather it's about being moral agents. That we, as created in the likeness of God, have the innate ability to make ethical and moral decisions -- and that is the true "freedom of the will" that we have been given.

Who cares if someone can prove that you put on red socks this morning because you saw a TV commercial that subconsciously influenced your decision. That's not what the Christian doctrine is about (again, I'm arguing from the Christian POV). The Christian doctrine is about CHOOSING to feed the hungry. CHOOSING to not curse those who curse you. CHOOSING to put away the sword and not cast the stone.

"Free will" is the ability to know the right thing, and do the right thing, -- even if it is not convenient or self-beneficial.

Anyone trying to convince you that you are nothing more than a robot is just selling snake oil.

And while it may be comforting to convince yourself that you had no real control over your bad behavior last night -- you need to man-up to the fact that, in reality, in truth, you DID really have control. Don't fool yourself and use the "no-free-will" argument as a way to justify bad behavior. In the very end, such foolish thinking will be exposed.

We ARE accountable for what we do in the area of morals and ethics.
The choice really is yours, and no one else's.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by lagenese
 


While your conclusion is most likely correct one, I am not sure about your deduction. But it doesen't matter. Ego is merely an convenient conception of process descriping nature of human psyche.

At the best, we may have freedom of choice. Even that may be an illusion. Our choices are results of complex processes of our lives, based on past experiences. One cannot really do anything except what these experiences lead us.

Freedom of choice is lot like a gaussian curve. On X axis, we have "consciousness" or something alike. On Y axis we have the possible choices. Further we advance X axis, less our choices become. Highly conscious being can only do right choices.

Anyways Lagenese, your post manifests a good point.


-v

[edit on 31-8-2010 by v01i0]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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If choice (free will) was real in the physical experience, then happiness would become the norm, for everyone, 24/7. There would be no injustice, there would be no wars, there would be no domination and influence. This would be a perfect world. In a cosmic point of view, free will is intelligent by nature. But at that level, choice is only a concept, and concepts are only psychological by design (egoic interpretation) . Psychology involves polarity of consciousness. A fully conscious being doesn't require psychology for it is part of the involution process.

If free will would really exist, this world would be very different.




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