Christian Preacher denied entry to USA - for life!

reply to post by pthena


Well I guess this thread was always at risk of burial... though I'm not sure I see a big difference between this and the many Muslim related threads - re ATS vs BTS. I thought the discussion was of merit, because once again the official rules are one thing, and the true rules are apparently something else.

Perhaps if I'd 'played up' the link to doomsday ideas earlier on (tongue in cheek).

Since this is now bts, I'd might as well deviate from topic a little...

I'm a bit younger, so am less aware of the likes of Bob Jones - though his name has come up while looking into IHOP. I do believe God has used IHOP to unveil truths to the prayer movement - but I personally suspect they will soon be challenged on some of their foundations that I believe to be wrong. Those challenges have happened here in provincial New Zealand, where IHOP idolatry has been repented of :-) Their tabernacle focus - and their platforms - I feel are wrong foundations.

As I stated in the OP, I don't know anything about that other Gershon guy re the temple mount. I am a supporter of Israel - BUT I know their heart is not yet for the true Messiah, and so I know their current rebuilding is required for the final destruction that's prophesied - and the same re the temple rebuild being required for the abomination of desolations. I recently listened to a talk by the late Art Katz who expounded the foolishness of sending Jews back to Israel at this time (that many were in fact being sent for their eventual persecution and death.) And I agree re temples made by man.

I'd be interested in what you learned from your uncle. Uncles are interesting. I owe several revelations in part to an uncle of my own.

reply to post by pthena


oops, double post deleted - must have had a previous page cached or something...

[edit on 31-8-2010 by latitude39]

reply to post by latitude39

I'm a bit younger, so am less aware of the likes of Bob Jones - though his name has come up while looking into IHOP. I do believe God has used IHOP to unveil truths to the prayer movement - but I personally suspect they will soon be challenged on some of their foundations that I believe to be wrong. Those challenges have happened here in provincial New Zealand, where IHOP idolatry has been repented of :-) Their tabernacle focus - and their platforms - I feel are wrong foundations.

There's a real smorgasbord out there. I haven't kept up on the scene since the 80s really, I did find an analysis of Bob Jones. Examining Bob Jones's Shepherd's Rod It's a bit scary at times to hear peoples teaching described in words I use myself. It's like reading symptoms in a medical book and saying, "Oh no, I've got that disease!"
This is a bit scary:

Most especially there is the "kingdom" of politics or government. This naturally implies the concentration of military and police power in the hands of those in control during the Kingdom Age. They are referred to as the "many-membered man child," whom Kingdom Theology adherents believe will be the fulfillment of Revelation 12:1-5: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars....And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron."

These sorts of things have been tried before with dire results.

I am a supporter of Israel - BUT I know their heart is not yet for the true Messiah, and so I know their current rebuilding is required for the final destruction that's prophesied - and the same re the temple rebuild being required for the abomination of desolations. I recently listened to a talk by the late Art Katz who expounded the foolishness of sending Jews back to Israel at this time (that many were in fact being sent for their eventual persecution and death.) And I agree re temples made by man.

I'm reading a book Allies for Armageddon:The Rise of Christian Zionism by Victoria Clark. Basically for 400 years, since the 1600s Christians, mostly English and American have been trying to convert the Jews and then ship them off to Palestine as colonial subjects, for their own selfish purposes. The Jews never showed any enthusiasm for such schemes. After the Russian pogroms they formed Zionism in 1890s and got British support to go to Palestine, not as a religious thing but purely political.

I guess the Christians really deserve about 400 years worth of blame for the problems in Palestine.

I'm a big time anti-Zionist. American Evangelicals are fond of sending money to build a temple that they believe will be for anti-Christ. I don't see how building a place for anti-Christ is a Christian activity. Apostle Paul gave a little talk in Acts 13 in which he said, the promises have been fulfilled. I don't think Christians have any business mucking about trying to fulfill OT prophecies. If they don't think they are fulfilled, I doubt they even believe in Jesus the fulfiller, then how are they Christian?

I'd be interested in what you learned from your uncle. Uncles are interesting. I owe several revelations in part to an uncle of my own.

Quack doctor, pretty smart about plants and body manipulations.

It just really caught my interest that Andrew Strom has bailed out of the Prophetic Movement. I think a real Christian movement is in order, and I believe it will have nothing to do with wealth or fame or numbers of followers or political power. Kind of how this poster describes: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry, probably more than you wanted to hear. There are a couple of possibilities for keeping preachers out right now. NYC anti-mosque activism and propaganda and the US hosted Palestine/Israel talks. The sad thing is that once denied entry, it's all the harder to gain entry in the future.



[edit on 31-8-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena


No, that's not too much at all - agreed on many points. May I recommend an ebook: "Houses That Change The World" by Wolfgang Simson. We "coincidentally" found a paperback copy of this book the day before our leaving the organized church. Best book I've read in ages, and practical. My spirit agrees, re the need to return to the home church.

I am grateful for your acquaintance pthena. God is waking His people up, and there is already a separation going on. I believe the prayer movement here is part of that answer. It's not about selfishly petitioning God for stuff - but seeking His heart - waiting on Him. To know the person of Christ, and most importantly to be known by Him.

Time for me to start work.

reply to post by latitude39
I found the book Houses That Change The World by Wolfgang Simson at pdf file and the Starfish Manifesto from Starfish Foundation

A little historical perspective on America

In the early to mid 1970s a movement arose called the Jesus Movement. It was primarily a Christ centered grass roots counter cultural movement rejecting war as an acceptable state of existence and it exhibited a very deep disillusionment with "the establishment" and the "establishment churches". In outward form, the Jesus Movement was predominately Pentecostal and Bible centered, with "doctrine" somewhat denigrated as divisive.

The grass roots nature did not last long at all. Special interest groups such as the Assemblies of God and Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel swooped in rather rapidly and sucked up the people. Both those groups are heavily Zionist. Some small groups of missionaries, primarily to Central and South America, received funding from the US State Department, in effect becoming US assets for intelligence gathering and counter measures against indigenous civil movements. The few remaining groups in the movement morphed into personality cults.

What I'm saying is this: the US had its chance and let it slip away. Of the Christians in America now, I approve more of the old matured denominations that are branded as liberal or rational. The anti-intellectual politically active Fundamentalist(Evangelical, as they prefer to be called) and Pentecostal denominations such as the above mentioned Assemblies of God and Calvary Chapel have become the establishment churches in America, and hence worshipers of the two horned beast, called by its detractors, USrael, that has its capital in JerUSAlem. The double patriotism toward the two nations joined at the hip is the Nationalist religion in America today.

While the "Spirit Filled Prophetic" model as described by Wolfgang Simson in the above mentioned books may be quite effective in other countries, I doubt its effectiveness in America. What we need in America is a carefully reasoned historical perspective that cuts through the 400 year propaganda that has driven us to madness, fear, and violence.

If any prophets in America are to be of any use, it will be as Historians, Psychologists, Sociologists, Anthropologists, Political Scientists, Economists, Journalists, Human Rights Activists, and etc with their camel skins hidden away.

ZEC 13:2 "On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more," declares the LORD Almighty. "I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom he was born, will say to him, `You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD's name.' When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.

ZEC 13:4 "On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He will not put on a prophet's garment of hair in order to deceive. 5 He will say, `I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth. ' 6 If someone asks him, `What are these wounds on your body?' he will answer, `The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.'

If you have any contact with Andrew Strom, you hereby have my permission to pass this on to him in whole.


[edit on 31-8-2010 by pthena]

The Jesus movement interests me. For years to me Keith Green was just a guy who wrote and sung songs that I didn't like very much - but eventually I realized how radical he was - and how important his attitudes were - how counter culture he was. I'm not trying to put a halo on his head or anything, but I wonder whether his removal from this world was planned to allow apostasy to increase. Just a theory, with nothing to base it on...

The prayer movement here is also considered divisive. Many of those involved (ie people seeking depth and seeking Christ) have found themselves being called out of church. I've been speaking of my own calling out for this last year - and I was heartened this week to learn that the word translated as church in the bible meant "called out". Our leaving the mainstream church has been interpreted by pastors as "bad fruit", indicative of a bad thing. But our hearts are for the Church. We need to constantly keep our cynicism in check though - as that's an easy trap for us. And once upon a time, we knew no better ourselves - it's by the grace of God that we have been called out.

I find myself a little torn with US church. I find that I love some of the devotional nature of the prayer/prophetically rooted stuff - eg Corey Russell. And I love the supremacy of the word expounded by the Southern Baptists - eg Paul Washer. (Actually I've only listened to a few of both those guys' messages... so I'm hoping they were enough to be indicative as I endorse them.)

I have to disagree with the following statements you've made:

Originally posted by pthena
While the "Spirit Filled Prophetic" model as described by Wolfgang Simson in the above mentioned books may be quite effective in other countries, I doubt its effectiveness in America...If any prophets in America are to be of any use, it will be as Historians, Psychologists, Sociologists, Anthropologists, Political Scientists, Economists, Journalists, Human Rights Activists, and etc with their camel skins hidden away.

Christianity is radical by nature. camel skins or not. The outpouring of the Spirit in the last days is something that I believe in. I realize that some have chosen to step away from it, in response to the false MSOG messages that are out there - but I feel they err if they reject the Spirit's leading. The Word of God is awesome - but without the Spirit revealing the Word, the power and majesty, and personal impact is reduced. The Jehovah's Witnesses have the Word - and so do the Mormons - but they are by and large deceived by false spirits.

I notice that a lot of the guys I respect have paid good attention to history though - so I'll give you credit on that front ;-) BUT Historians, Psychologists, Sociologists, Anthropologists, Political Scientists, Economists, Journalists and Human Rights Activists are not Prophets - nor are they able to deliver what a Prophet can. In fact I trust few people who fit these categories. I see them as being embraced by the "emergent church", which will be a very dangerous beast in sheep clothing when it emerges.

I do believe in the prophetic - but it appears to be rare - and it's hard to know who to listen to (though God has given believers divine unction, so that we may discern). I am a natural skeptic, with some scientific background, and a reasonable "instinct". I believe what the OT requires of a prophet - that is 100% accuracy. I am considered by some here to be a Watchman - but I am no prophet. If God chooses to change that in the future - that's up to Him - but IMO I don't think He will. Having said that, I do believe I am given dreams from time to time.

I don't know Andrew. In the future that may change - but right now I am a man of low profile.

I have considerable sympathy for the passive Christian Anarchists - and got a lot out of Tolstoy's writings (though I confess I stopped reading when I felt he was repeating himself!)

Be blessed.