FACTS about "Ground Zero" "Mosque"

I try to stay out of heated debates such as these, but felt the need to post based on distorted arguments some are putting forward on this issue...To those who have the "knowledge" to put forward an argument such as "Well, let's just build a japanese culture center on Pearl harbor"...I highly suggest you check your argument...there are already Shinto Shrines built on Pearl Harbor

www.japanprobe.com...

and to those who argue for having respect for the people who died on 9-11 how is it that you so easily forget the people who may not have been in the twin towers, but also died that horrific day...Better check your stats...Where were YOU when they put in the Mosque at The Pentagon??? Yep, you read correctly, I said Mosque in the Pentagon, placed there in 2007 I might add...Do we only consider the ones who died on 9-11 as counting only if they were in the twin towers???

www.salon.com...

In my opinion, it only makes the arguments against the Islamic Community Center built NEAR, not ON Ground Zero absolutely pointless...Pick your battles much?? Meh...

Edited to add this...And to some who have argued against the mosque using the "Islam is the only religion that kills" factor...this next link is for YOU, and it regards Nagasaki and Hiroshima and the fact that christian churches do and have existed there...

www.nuclearfiles.org...

Didn't want anyone to feel left out!!!

I got to the other thread too late, ahhh well...Camaro?? This next comment is directed to you...by way of your very own thinking as mentioned in your comments on the other thread...Does this mean that The Westboro BAPTIST church, which has Christianity as it's foundation speak for ALL of Christianity?? Do or rather CAN you not see the difference between Islam and RADICAL Islam OR (using Westboro as the example)...Christianity and RADICAL Christianity???? ALL religions have some type of a radical fundamentalist approach to the original religion...There's always one in every crowd who ruins it for others they say....

[edit on 31-8-2010 by rockhndr]

[edit on 31-8-2010 by rockhndr]

Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by nunya13
1. It's not at ground zero

The Americans know when you gobermt disnfo agents attempt to lie to the public!
[edit on 30-8-2010 by Violater1]

Huh? I should get a cookie. First time I've been called that on ATS. I kinda feel special now.

Funny thing is, that I'm one of those kooky people that think the government is out to screw us every which way to Sunday.

It would have been more constructive of you to dispute why you disagreed with my statement.

Originally posted by Mekanic
Oh boy, I really had zero intention of getting involved in any discussions about this, but here goes.

First of all Amendment 1

If anybody ever wants this country to go back to it's roots, remember on what grounds it was founded.

"Nuff said!

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by nunya13

 

4. "Cordoba" has nothing to do with conquering. When Muslims conquered Cordoba, Spain (as others had before them) it turned the area into a culturally diverse, tolerant, enlightened community where Muslims and Christians worked together, side-by-side.

Have you forgotten what islam has done in the Balkans while under the Ottoman empire?

This isn't about the Balkans, it's about Cordoba, Spain.

side-by-side

Right you mean by side by side forcing the civilians to join islam by using force of threats and immediate harm forced upon them.

No, I mean, just like the city describes it's OWN history. The city was flourishing, rich with culture and conducive to interfaith relations. Read my links in the OP.

I am sad to see ATS been turned into a Islamic Apologist, i guess some people love been stuck in the dark ages (Islamic Laws)

I'm not an apologist, I am simply defending the RIGHTS of American Citizens to practice their religion in a manner that suits them in a building that they were given permission to occupy. I have said before that my stance on this issue has nothing to do with my opinions on Islam and everything to do with their right to be there.

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
However i believe its bad taste to build it there but that is my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs but to deny them their religious freedoms is wrong. America is supposed to be a place of tolerance and we should start acting like it.

Thank you for bringing sanity to my thread. I am not disputing people's opinions, only the untruths that are being told in order to make the situation seem more threatening than it really is.

reply to post by bowlbyville


Welp, here's the thing about that. Regardless of their wishes to enslave all of humanity and force us to convert to Islam, they still have the right to be there.

Senator Hatch puts it pretty well...and discusses the LDS.



He's way too calm.

Hmmm... Debating about whether it's "ground zero" or not. My take is that it's close enough to ground zero to be *adjacent* to ground zero. And, if anyone doesn't understand why it might bother some overly sensitive folks, then part of them is blind enough not to realize that constructing a museum honoring Adolf Hitler next to a concentration camp site in Germany might not be a popular idea either.

America was partially, if not wholly, formed on the idea of finding a place to practice religion freely. "Freedom of Religion" and "America" go hand in hand. However, for some reason, some Americans have let the events of 9/11, as horrific as they were, cloud their vision about religious freedom in America.

If the people who want to construct the cultural center (with a mosque), and they aren't breaking any laws, then what can you really do? What if Muslims in communities all across America started protesting agains Jewish temples, or Christian churches, or Buddhist temples or Scientology centers? What if each of those orgainzations started protesting any organization other than their own?

Haven't we seen where this led in Ireland (Protestants VS Catholics: bombs and a LOT of people dead)? Don't we see where this leads to in the Middle East (Israel and neighbors embroiled in never-ending hatred)? What about the Kashmir region between Pakistan and India? Where in the world does it END?

Well, a better question might be "Where in the world does it BEGIN?" A new bridge of understanding between two cultures could BEGIN in New York.

Will we give in to fear, anger, hatred (the Dark Side are they)? Or will we step up for one of the things that has made this country stronger, that this country was founded upon: diversity and religious freedom? Will we let the past keep us from engaging a brighter future? Or will we let the DREAM of a BETTER WORLD lead us a far better future for *ALL* of our children, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Bhuddist, etc. alike?

Basically, are we so sensitive that we can't move on? Or are we STRONG ENOUGH to make new friends? Of course, we can only answer for ourselves as individuals. I think we can. If enough people agree, then maybe there is hope for humanity.

Freedom of Religion. America. Is it un-American to use the slogan: SELECTIVE Freedom of Religion? Is that "freedom?" Is that American?

You decide.

Some important threads others should read:

Taliban wishing for success of campaign to block Islamic Center

Memphis Christians put out welcome mat for Muslims

I really have to ask...why is this whole thing such a big deal? Freedom of religion is one of our nations most cherished rights. You have to ask your self why are we making ground zero a "sacred place" in a religious context. Why is this SUCH a big deal? There is already a Mosque close to ground zero and as mentioned before there was a Mosque built in the pentagon in 2007. There are many other larger things to be opposed to than this triviality. This is like a million people from around the world being opposed to a church being built a mile away from a Planned Parenthood. Can no one else see how this event is being blown WAY out of proportion? And every one is falling into it.

reply to post by nunya13


NYC Mosque Developers Face Tax Trouble

The New York Post first reported that 45 Park Place Partners owed $224,270.77 in back real estate taxes and penalties, and that debt is growing by the day. The city charges an interest rate of 18 percent. The latest check of city records has upped the money owed by another $3,000, and unless someone writes a check and soon, the bill will continue to increase.

...

According to city records, another tax bill for $97,118.18 will be due Jan. 1. That could put the developer in the red for more than $300,000 if past bills aren't paid.

But that total is relatively minor compared to the total cost of the development, about $100 million. The proposed Islamic center would rise 12 stories and would include a pool and auditorium, as well as the prayer space.

Yep, the facts keep rolling.

Something tells me that the Mosque will never be built. If the government comes in and uses taxpayer money to build a religious temple, we have a serious problem with the people in charge. It opens a whole new door in unconstitutional practices, which have been plaguing our society for some time now.

My question is: If they are avoiding paying their taxes in the first place, how the hell did they get the go ahead for building a $100 million dollar facility?

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by nunya13

 

Nothing bigoted about it, we simply know who and what you are, and most of us have noticed that the IRA had a habit of blowing up children and kneecapping women. Other hobbies include blowing up cars and bins in busy public areas and chopping the heads off of loyalists. I know, I know, those are just the extremists. Strangely, you guys love to cheer them on and send them your cash.

It is bigoted, are your beliefs as strong with my edit to your comments? I don't know you political affiliations but New York was a major supplier of funds to the IRA (possibly still is).
Personally, I'd ban all religious building, all religion too. Without religion neither your original comment or my edited version above would ever have appeared anywhere.
Still, your constitution promises "freedom of religion", not as many of the American Taliban fundamental Christians would prefer it " freedom of Christianity" so suck it up, deep breath and.........build a mosque. Where's the harm? Where's the offence?
Oh how all laughed when the pictures of Mohammed were all over the news, some even started a "lets all draw Mohammed" page on face book, laughed because its silly to be offended by a drawing....isn't it?
Sillier to be offended by a building, that's a small part of a larger complex near to, but not at the sight of a major calamity.
I give up, intolerance born of the ignorance of those who refuse to be educated will never be beaten. I only hope it dies out by natural selection and at some point my descendants never find themselves arguing as riduculous a point as where to build the houses for there imaginary friends.

reply to post by Section31


You have brought up a valid concern, however, this concern is completely separate from the idea that their very religion should be what determines whether or not the place should be built. Not paying taxes is a legal issue. Being of a certain religion is not.

Maybe the area surrounding Ground Zero should be off limits to all human institutions.

It was a bunch of radical humans who planned and executed the attacks.


Side note: If I am killed in some sort of attack please do not use my death to advance your hateful anti-[blank] agenda. Show me respect by treating people like individuals that all have the potential for good and evil.

All the muslim butt kissers. I swear. i ALMOST wish for sharia just to see you guys carted off to the nearest wall by your "friends" of allah (pbuh)

p for poop.

When they conquer a place, they build a monument to the victory.

Notice the op mentioned that Cordoba was founded AFTER AN INVASION?

The Alhambra?

It was a FORT!

The muzzies in spain werent all light and goodness. Had it not been for Charles Martel (one of the few Frenchman with a pair), the muslims would have continued to expand into the rest of Europe.

Somewhat like the Great White City of Kosovo stopping expansion.

Battle of Tours was in the early 700's folks.

The 1st Crusade was to staunch their expansion!

Yeah. Muzzies just wanna have fun.

Its interesting that the Greek Orthodox church that was destroyed in the attack (regardless if it was CIA or muslims) has met with immense blockades.

Hmmm. Nothing here. Move along.



[edit on 31/8/10 by felonius]

reply to post by rockhndr


There is a room in the Pentagon for people of a variety of faiths to go to pray. It is not a mosque.

To all the American people who think this is disrespectful..

What I find disrespectful is using the deaths of 3000 people as a reason to kill over 1.5 million BLAMELESS people.

No Isamapologist here, just someone who see people justifying over 1 million civillians dead for their own countries pride.

I have no care about your dead if you have no concept of death!! Or murder! Just because you call it COLLATERAL doesn't mean I do. Maybe 9/11 victims were just collateral aswell for your filthy governments crimes against humanity.

Your country is selling weapons with bible verses inscribed on them. How about we pile up all the dead women and children with bible verse bullets in their heads and you set them on fire like you do with their religious books. And you say your not religiously crazy? Hitler would love you.

Keep covering up your collateral murder America. It continues to makes me feel less sorry for the lives you lost on 9/11, and any lives you would lose if an invading country came and bombed the he'll out of you because YOU ACTUALLY HAVE WMD AND ARE SUPPLYING IT TO 60 YEAR OLD COUNTRIES LIKE ISRAEL. Wow let's give war victims who hate the world nukes. Shame on you all.

There are Christian churces in many Indian reservations. How is that for respect huh? think we can all agree the Native Americans suffered alot more at the hands of Christian fanatics over the last couple hundred years, yet they for the most part did not have a movement to keep the churches out of their life?

I say build a mosque smack dab in the middle of Gound Zero just to spite the conservatives for their politization of the issue.

reply to post by felonius


The Alhambra in Spain is one of the most amazing buildings in Europe.

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 1-9-2010 by woodwardjnr]

Originally posted by felonius

All the muslim butt kissers. I swear. i ALMOST wish for sharia just to see you guys carted off to the nearest wall by your "friends" of allah (pbuh)

p for poop.

When they conquer a place, they build a monument to the victory.

Notice the op mentioned that Cordoba was founded AFTER AN INVASION?

The Alhambra?

It was a FORT!

The muzzies in spain werent all light and goodness. Had it not been for Charles Martel (one of the few Frenchman with a pair), the muslims would have continued to expand into the rest of Europe.

Somewhat like the Great White City of Kosovo stopping expansion.

Battle of Tours was in the early 700's folks.

The 1st Crusade was to staunch their expansion!

Yeah. Muzzies just wanna have fun.

Its interesting that the Greek Orthodox church that was destroyed in the attack (regardless if it was CIA or muslims) has met with immense blockades.

Hmmm. Nothing here. Move along.



[edit on 31/8/10 by felonius]

Yes, when Muslims conquer an area, they declare their victory with a community center. You guys really should just come to the reality that there is no valid argument against building the "ground zero mosque". All you guys do is misrepresent your opponent's position. You're almost as bad as 9/11 Truthers.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by technical difficulties]