FACTS about "Ground Zero" "Mosque"

Oh boy, I really had zero intention of getting involved in any discussions about this, but here goes.

First of all Amendment 1

If anybody ever wants this country to go back to it's roots, remember on what grounds it was founded.

Tell me, if by some freak oddity, G.W. Bush came out and said it was he who orchestrated the entire thing, and that it was in the name of Christ, would you ban a Christian church from being built there? Alot of what I've seen is Muslim this, Muslim that. Guess what, that is the same as racism. To deny the Muslims the right to put build a mosque two blocks away from Ground Zero is as bad as the KKK denying a black man from building a house in the suburbs.

Second of all, there are two types of Muslims. The same Muslims that you buy cigarettes from, bump shoulders with at the mall, or party with in college. Then there's Muslim extremists. Just because they walk into a mosque, it doesn't mean they are going to blow up your building.

Some of you people are why we have religious extremists burning the American flag. The shame. We as a people don't deserve to have a free country, because according to the people who live here, you have to conform.

Worst part of this is that I'm an atheist, defending religion.

reply to post by nunya13

4. "Cordoba" has nothing to do with conquering. When Muslims conquered Cordoba, Spain (as others had before them) it turned the area into a culturally diverse, tolerant, enlightened community where Muslims and Christians worked together, side-by-side.

Have you forgotten what islam has done in the Balkans while under the Ottoman empire?

side-by-side

Right you mean by side by side forcing the civilians to join islam by using force of threats and immediate harm forced upon them.

Oh my as ATS already forgotten this?
en.wikipedia.org...

socyberty.com...

3. It's a cultural center

I am sad to see ATS been turned into a Islamic Apologist, i guess some people love been stuck in the dark ages (Islamic Laws)



[edit on 30-8-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

Well from what i can tell some of the problem with them building it there is that muslims used to build mosques in places they conquered wheather or not the fact that they conquered it was the reason for it being built or to just have a place to worship maybe some of both who knows. However i believe its bad taste to build it there but that is my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs but to deny them their religious freedoms is wrong. America is supposed to be a place of tolerance and we should start acting like it.

Originally posted by Wademus

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Dude you got it wrong on every single account none of those groups are based on religion they are political.

Did the banner on denying ignorance disappear because god damn it you can't fake stupidity like this.

The Irish Republican Army (IRA) (Irish: Óglaigh na hÉireann[1]) was an Irish republican revolutionary military organisation. It was descended from the Irish Volunteers, an organisation established on 25 November 1913 that staged the Easter Rising in April 1916.[2] In 1919, the Irish Republic that had been proclaimed during the Easter Rising was formally established by an elected assembly (Dáil Éireann), and the Irish Volunteers were recognised by Dáil Éireann as its legitimate army. Thereafter, the IRA waged a guerrilla campaign against British rule in Ireland in the 1919-21 Irish War of Independence.
wikipedia


real religious isnt it. You really cant fake your level of stupidity

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Wademus]

Because the IRA wasn't largely fueled by nationalism which they believe their Catholic background and heritage was a primary component of their national identity and life. Not at all. Wikipedia has all the answers for everything.

See, if you were intelligent you would have brought up the fact that the IRA does indeed have protestant members although they didn't come until much later in the history of the IRA when they started to change from a legitimate freedom fighting force to a terrorist and criminal organization.

reply to post by Wademus


Thats good your going to need that when the CME comes in 2013.

Back to the main topic. Mohammad was nothen but a gangster that now a bunch of crazy people fallow. in my opion

Originally posted by Mekanic
Worst part of this is that I'm an atheist, defending religion.

I think it's as important to us atheists as it is to religious folks to defend the rights of Americans. If the Constitution means anything to us, and it's clear it's important to you, we need to take it as a whole and defend every part of it for every American.

Standing up for Free Speech is only meaningful if you support it for those with whom you disagree. Anything else is just lip service.

I find it hilarious that on other threads ATS members talk about how 9/11 was an inside job and that the evidence is empirical, but they come on threads like this and flame Muslims for wanting to set up their place of worship near Ground Zero. Wy does it matter? The Muslims had nothing to do with it anyway...

I've been all around the globe, but just finally made it to NYC for the first time ever this past week. I made it a point to have my buddies take me by ground zero. I was and still am surprised by how far away from ground zero this proposed mosque would be. I defend its construction regardless, but at this point why not ban all mosques in the city so ethno and ego-centric individuals can feel safe and satisfied.

There were definitely still jerk-offs standing nearby with picket signs and the likes, they seemed hostile and angry over nothing. If it wasn't a mosque, these people would just find something else to bitch about.

If you are disturbed about a Mosque being close to ground zero you are probably still slave to the LIE that Muslim people were responsible and carried out 911.

However if you are not bound by this LIE that radical muslims orchestrated 911, you won't have a problem with it being built there.

All the mosque haters shouldn't be mad about the Mosque but should be outraged that Larry Silversteins offices are downtown. Then you would be living closer to truth

[edit on 30-8-2010 by superluminal11]

OK Yanks, lets talk TRUTH.

What about the THOUSANDS of people MURDERED by the IRA that were DIRECTLY funded by AMERICAN SPONSORS.

Yeah, dno't like the truth do you YANKIES.

It's all there... as facts... the IRA, who MURDERED THOUSANDS of BRITISH Citizens were funded by AMERICAN BACKERS.

Many American backers who, by some tiny geneological lineage thought that it would be good to divert MILLIONS of #ty dollars worth of funding to help dissident Irish TERRORISTS to kill INNOCENT BRITISH CIVILIANS.

Does that RING ANY BELLS YOU #ERS??

Doubtfull as you ALL have such short memories.

I don't.

Anyway, can you Americans see the similarity here?

Can you see ANY similarity here??

Probably not.

Bunch of ignorant WASTERS and RACISTS. Worse than the British! And thats saying somthing coming from a Brit!

What the USA needs to accept and deal with is that IT is now the British Empire.

IT is now trying to control a large proportion of the Planet using it's imperialist forces.

IT is becoming more and more stretched and ineffectual towards it's OWN INTERNAL failings. The more it tries to clamp down on internal dissidents, the more they slip thru it's fingers. (quote from Princess Leia)

The sad thing is that it has not looked back at EVERY Empire building Nation throughout antiquity and it STILL thinks it is is undefeatable.

Rome fell, Persia fell, Greece fell, The British Empire fell....

Not long to wait now for the US Empire to follow suit.....

I posted it some time ago. I've seen this sort of stuff get built before. And I still do not favor it. It's subtle mind washing. Worst of all, the people are often good but that is warped to cover their evil.

Lets pretend a Christian group does the same thing, and for all intensive purposes folks seem real nice. Then you see one of their cultural events on sexuality or something, and you see the pure hatred that all the good masks.

I'm sorry. I am simply not a big fan of religious cultural centers that subtly mind wash children to do what they want. It's amazing. pretty much the only form I've seen it work in is with Catholic High schools. Who are so dumbed down with religion it might as well be universalism.

Here's a link to a 1991 document from the Islamic Brotherhood and the need for "Islamic Centers." It was used as evidence in the USA trials concerning Islamic organizations funding terrorists. If you don't believe that this Mosque is being built to further the aims of the Islamic Brotherhood then you need to look at their 6th goal "Supporting the establishment of the global Islamic State..."

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, ultimately, people have a right to be offended. They have a right to express the fact that they are offended. How they express that can take many forms. There are many outlets that are allowed under their first amendment rights.

There is nothing they can do though - legally - to prevent this community center's presence there. Unless, that is, there is some firm proof that the people building, attending, or funding this community center are committing, threatening, planning, or supporting violent or otherwise illegal acts.

I have yet to see any. I keep asking those who assert that this community center represents a real threat (not those who are simply offended) to show me some. They never reply, or they change the subject. I've asked for it in several threads now, many, many times. And until their is, being offended and/or guilt by association are not sufficient legal grounds to strip them of their rights to 1) build on their property, or 2) exercise their religious beliefs.

Ultimately, that dual legal reality: their right to build this center unless such proof can be produced, and opponents' rights to express their offense, fear, anger or other sentiments, are the bottom lines in my opinion. They are immutable, and in fact they are not even mutually exclusive. So long as neither group becomes violent or breaks the law.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by Wademus

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Dude you got it wrong on every single account none of those groups are based on religion they are political.

Did the banner on denying ignorance disappear because god damn it you can't fake stupidity like this.

The Irish Republican Army (IRA) (Irish: Óglaigh na hÉireann[1]) was an Irish republican revolutionary military organisation. It was descended from the Irish Volunteers, an organisation established on 25 November 1913 that staged the Easter Rising in April 1916.[2] In 1919, the Irish Republic that had been proclaimed during the Easter Rising was formally established by an elected assembly (Dáil Éireann), and the Irish Volunteers were recognised by Dáil Éireann as its legitimate army. Thereafter, the IRA waged a guerrilla campaign against British rule in Ireland in the 1919-21 Irish War of Independence.
wikipedia


real religious isnt it. You really cant fake your level of stupidity

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Wademus]

Because the IRA wasn't largely fueled by nationalism which they believe their Catholic background and heritage was a primary component of their national identity and life. Not at all. Wikipedia has all the answers for everything.

See, if you were intelligent you would have brought up the fact that the IRA does indeed have protestant members although they didn't come until much later in the history of the IRA when they started to change from a legitimate freedom fighting force to a terrorist and criminal organization.

glad you decided to read dude. You just proved yourself wrong for me and now I can rest.

IRA= not a Catholic army

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
Well from what i can tell some of the problem with them building it there is that muslims used to build mosques in places they conquered wheather or not the fact that they conquered it was the reason for it being built or to just have a place to worship maybe some of both who knows. However i believe its bad taste to build it there but that is my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs but to deny them their religious freedoms is wrong. America is supposed to be a place of tolerance and we should start acting like it.

bahahaha. If that's the case they conquered Manhattan 20 years ago.

Any islamic........ anything, Is just insensitive to the American people and their will. If it wasn't too near, then the majority of Americans would not have a problem with it. It would be like Japan putting up a shrine right near Pearl Harbor just years after they blew it up. They should be lucky that they are even allowed in the country. I am not saying anything about you r average muslim....but let's face it. Americas political system is not the only ones at work here....so are the ones funding islamic radicalists. THEY sre the ones placing this Islamic (who cares what it is) there. Why? Because any muslim that would put it that close (or anywhere near) where the towers fell has equated rubbing salt in the would of America. The Mosque or Whatever will be called "The Cordoba House", now why would they name it that? The term 'Cordoba House" is a symbol of muslim conquest. "Cordoba, a city in Spain, was conquered by Muslims in the early 8th century. Upon capturing the city, Muslims began construction on the first 'Cordoba House'. Prior to that, Spain, at the time a Christian nation, was a symbol of western civilization. Once it had fallen to Islam, the first 'Cordoba House' became an Islamic symbol of conquest. So, by derivation, it could mean nothing less now considering the placement of any muslim building. If you want religeous tolerance, there is a great big country called America that has 3.79 million square miles (9.83 million km2) so I think it sends a LOUD message to place it where they are intending to. It is insensitivity at it's peak. I dont care who puts it there, if it is associated, in any form, with those who toppled the towers then you need to find some different real estate.........it's called RESPECT!

reply to post by Phenomium


You know I had a post earlier in this thread that pretty much summed up this whole damn issue that was completely ignored and yet people keep repeating the same old tired flawed, double think contradictory ignorant opinions.

Your Japanese argument is moot as we did one better and "encamped" Japanese Americans during that time. Which in hind site was a pretty ethically and morally backwards thing to do.

I have one question to ask all American here on this thread even debating this freaking issue like its even a question at all...

When do we as a people start picking and choosing WHICH Americans have constitutional rights and which Americans don't?

Its a crime to be Muslim in this country and that's exactly one of the reasons this country was founded, was to escape religious persecution. So now suddenly because ignorant people unable to differentiate between peaceful people and terrorist people they want to suddenly flip a 180 and go back on the constitution like it was only intended to apply to non-Muslims.

Why o why is this STILL a religion/belief based issue? Are the American people truly that unevolved?

Can the American people really stand behind their "great" country when they let religious ignorance and fear mongering over sensitive hyper-emotional reasoning destroy everything this country was based on? It saddens me to see Americans making this an issue at all what so ever....

"respect" issues aside peaceful Muslim's should not feel "guilty" or be made to feel "guilty" for practicing their religion in a FREE COUNTRY! (or what was supposed to be)

Muslim people should not have to berated with accusations of insensitivity and disrespect for practicing their peaceful religion, and yes it is peaceful religion otherwise your looking at 1,282,780,149 terrorists, the second most practiced religion on the planet.

completely asinine that this is even being discussed.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Sly1one]

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Sly1one]

People who still believe 911 was the result of Muslim terrorists are the real folks I'm offended by.

Originally posted by Phenomium
Any islamic........ anything, Is just insensitive to the American people and their will. If it wasn't too near, then the majority of Americans would not have a problem with it.

The question has been asked many times before, but none of those opposed seem to want to give a straight answer: If 2.5 NYC blocks is too close, how damn far do you have to drive them away for you to feel "safe?"

If you live anywhere other than Manhattan, what the hell gives you the right to banish the 600,000 Muslims that live on Manhattan from that area? Read the posts here... people aren't opposed to this center in Manhattan, they're opposed to Muslims altogether.

Originally posted by Phenomium
It would be like Japan putting up a shrine right near Pearl Harbor just years after they blew it up.

Question: How long must they endure wanton discrimination before they are "entitled" to equal treatment?

Originally posted by Phenomium
They should be lucky that they are even allowed in the country. I am not saying anything about you r average muslim....

Who are you to restrict immigration based on religious beliefs? That's EXACTLY why the First Amendment was put in place... to prevent one religion (Christianity) from infringing on the rights of other religions. (Muslims)

Originally posted by Phenomium
If you want religeous tolerance, there is a great big country called America that has 3.79 million square miles (9.83 million km2) so I think it sends a LOUD message to place it where they are intending to. It is insensitivity at it's peak. I dont care who puts it there, if it is associated, in any form, with those who toppled the towers then you need to find some different real estate.........it's called RESPECT!

Many claim that this is just about the proposed lower Manhattan center, but in reality the discrimination spreads everywhere in the country. One example: Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson

Insensitivity is insinuating that almost 2 BILLION people are cold blooded killers and unworthy of equal treatment because they're of the same faith as 19 radical terrorists. That seems "fair" to me... (NOT)