Unemployed Irish will soon be REQUIRED to work for the gov... COMMUNISM ANYONE?

Nobody is forcing you to work for the government, but if you want it to support you, you have to work for them. I see no problem with this. Quid pro quo!

Originally posted by soleprobe

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
you've sealed the deal for me. I won't becoming back here after tonight.

Sorry but I really don't know what I could have said to make you scoff but I'm not going to waste any time teaching you about the common wealth... you can look that up yourself....

And I take it you wont be coming back under that username

[edit on 30-8-2010 by soleprobe]

The Irish Free State left the commonwealth on the 18th of April 1949.

What are you talking about?
It seems you are the one that needs some teaching?

Ok - this is viscous and disgusting.

The Irish people have been stolen from, and their economy crushed by the banksters. The losses of the banks have been transferred to the people - and now they are going to make them slave laborers to pay off a never ending debt.

This is where the entire world is headed - the debt is not real, the economic conditions are not real - it is all based on fantasy numbers that spring out of a computer.

The real wealth of nations remain, they are labor, resources and capital - and it doesn't matter what foreign power tells the people they are in debt - they can simply repudiate the debt and utilize the resources of their own nation to survive.

Every person should divorce themselves from the system - STOP PAYING TAX - stop paying loans to banks - repudiate the debt.

reply to post by Jeanius


People who are on the unemployment benefit should indeed work for the government, if they are able.

No shame in this.

And it might teach them some skills.

Originally posted by Schrödinger
Nobody is forcing you to work for the government, but if you want it to support you, you have to work for them. I see no problem with this. Quid pro quo!

Its a fkn trick! The banks force people into poverty - they knew it well before it happened, they create these social security policies - then they get everyone dependent on the state for food - of course people will have to work - there is no choice - unless they just tell the entire system to fk off and get out from under the egregious and spurious debt.

www.youtube.com...

Yeah, more of this I predict...



[edit on 31-8-2010 by Masinger]

As another poster mentioned Australia has had similar programs to this for around 15 years. The devil will be in the detail - These schemes do not (in many countries, I can't speak for Ireland) apply to all people who are not working, generally they kick in after a period of time (say six months) of complete unemployment - eg - you haven't found any work during that time. Rightly or wrongly the system considers these people to be at risk of never finding work again and this is when mutual obligation, work for the dole etc kicks in.

In a broad sense I don't disagree with this process. Regardless of the opinions of others that benefits are an entitlement - you'll find that the legislation covering the payment of social security in many western countries are seated in a basic framework that specifies what criteria makes you "entitled" it is more of a privilege than a right, its just that in western societies since the 1940's people have developed a sense of expectation for this assistance and current generations don't know a time when social security didn't exist. This leads to a minority core of welfare recipients who really should be subject to a work program - if nothing else it generates a routine, forces socialisation with other humans and does provide a sense of worth for the participant. I've administrated and facilitated these programs and the first week or so for the person is challenging - however in many cases feedback indicates that after completing the program people gain something positive, even if it is purely learning a new skill.

tl;dr - its not just about being forced to do something for social security money, there are plenty of non-financial reasons for certain unemployed people to be engaged with schemes like this.

I just hope they're working more for Ireland rather than Britain.

reply to post by Jeanius


THIS HAS GOT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION...

How did the OP manage to tie this in with the EU??

And work for free? They will be paid approx 300 USD for their 20 hours of working for government investment opportunities.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Does the OP understand that an unemployed Irish Person can cost the Irish State up to 400 USD - 305 EURO per week. Unemployment benefits, social security and housing allowances can hit this figure.

Explain to me how getting those people to do some work is any more communist than giving it to them for free..

And in all fairness, the Irish government would commission a private industry to take over this project.. ie CAPITALISM!!!!!!

AND FINALLY.. Apart from these people only making up .010% approx of the EU..

Using Nigel Farage as any kind of proof of anything to do with the EU shows that you have completely no idea of how the EU works.. Also, that idiot in that other youtube video has hit on so much disinformation that it doesn't even make any sense in my mind..

You should look up how these systems actually work before getting would up about them.

reply to post by CynicalM


Ridiculous.

If they are working in a job, for their benefits (that they pay for in a national insurance scheme) then they are NO LONGER unemployed!

They would be in a job, employed in a job of work..so unemployment benefits would not come into it.

And let us not forget, people are being put out of work due to the greed and corruption of the banking systems, where are all these so called 'unemployment jobs' going to come from?

If people are forced to accept ANY vacancy in the local jobcenter/unemployment office, they should automatically be off benefits and onto minimum wage, or whatever wage above that the job is deemed 'worth'.

They are actually saying that you must now take any job offered to you, or you lose your (paid for) unemployment benefit.

SO sad that trillions have been HANDED over to PRIVATE banking companies, and again the 'little person' on the street has to beg for a pittance in benefits...yeah, that's fair.

I tell you what would be fair, the bailed out BANKS and their fat cats, should be forced to work for minimum wages, or face prison. ALL profits from the wage/bonus savings should be ploughed into social security to pay for the poor buggers losing their homes and jobs due to the banks' criminal negligence.

But no...they that caused this will go on earning the big bucks, their victims will go on being shat upon from on high.

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by Jeanius

 

THIS HAS GOT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION...


Thats very big writing?

Anyway, anything Ireland does now MUST be approved by the EU.

Any major decisions in the country must be given the green light by the EU.

Anyone who believes that the EU does not have outright control over Ireland is still living in the past.

Have a read of the Lisbon Treaty which was rolled in with a fanfare and promised a great recovery and a load of jobs to be created.

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
Thats very big writing?

Anyway, anything Ireland does now MUST be approved by the EU.

Anyone who believes that the EU does not have outright control over Ireland is still living in the past.

It was pretty big writing lol..

Not in this case.. I know my EU and I have never spotted any case where a simple member state issue like Unemployment benefit has to be brought before the EU unless Irish citizens bring this issue to an EU court..

I know the Lisbon treaty very well.. show me where you have been informed of this?

While I do agree with you that anything which is covered by the Lisbon treaty must be cleared by the EU.. Thats only a thousand out of a million things it takes to run a nation.. We change our Dole every single budget and while the EU now checks every states budget before it goes to Parliament, how the Dole money is given is not under scrutiny.

If this was an EU wide issue, then wouldn't every member have to do it? And also, if this idea were introduced by the EU, why is the Irish government saying its their idea?? Because it has nothing to do with the EU turning into a communist state. Fact. Internal Irish Issue plain and simple.

Originally posted by Schrödinger
Nobody is forcing you to work for the government, but if you want it to support you, you have to work for them. I see no problem with this. Quid pro quo!

sooo..why pay unemployment tax/insurance if you have to work when your unemployed?

every system has its flaws...'our' system..the social state...where people 'look after' others financially if they hit on hard times is no different...its weak spot is its open to abuse..

thats something we have to just live with and accept..or...change the entire system..

you cant expect people to pay into a system and then get nothing back...thats robbery..

reply to post by alienesque


Sorry Alienesque but the Irish system works two ways..

You pay a certain amount of PRSI (Pay related Social Insurance) through your tax, this is then returned should you lose your job in the form of the highest paying, easiest to receive benefits system.

Once these "Stamps" run out, you are demoted to "Job Seekers Allowance" which is substantially less.

Here, the Irish Government are talking about reemploying those who are on this money.. By giving them work and probably increasing the amount they earn.

So what is the problem.. I don't see one..

Maybe best off asking the questions before jumping to the Grande statements. I don't know where you live but its obviously far enough from Ireland not to know much about it..

Also, In fact, when I did live in Ireland only a year ago, I wrote to the government over a dozen times about policy changes and this was one.. Raise the Job Seekers Allowance by employing those accepting it through capital investment schemes.. Therefore investing this money in the nations towns, cities etc, raising the standard of living of those working by allowing them to get more money, more liquidity in the economy and a plethora of other plusses..

But no.. Of course people on this site would only see some retarded conspiracy in this.. Clearly I must work for the NWO as some kind of Authoritarian Marketer.

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by alienesque

 

Sorry Alienesque but the Irish system works two ways..

You pay a certain amount of PRSI (Pay related Social Insurance) through your tax, this is then returned should you lose your job in the form of the highest paying, easiest to receive benefits system.

Once these "Stamps" run out, you are demoted to "Job Seekers Allowance" which is substantially less.

Here, the Irish Government are talking about reemploying those who are on this money.. By giving them work and probably increasing the amount they earn.

So what is the problem.. I don't see one..

Maybe best off asking the questions before jumping to the Grande statements. I don't know where you live but its obviously far enough from Ireland not to know much about it..

Also, In fact, when I did live in Ireland only a year ago, I wrote to the government over a dozen times about policy changes and this was one.. Raise the Job Seekers Allowance by employing those accepting it through capital investment schemes.. Therefore investing this money in the nations towns, cities etc, raising the standard of living of those working by allowing them to get more money, more liquidity in the economy and a plethora of other plusses..

But no.. Of course people on this site would only see some retarded conspiracy in this.. Clearly I must work for the NWO as some kind of Authoritarian Marketer.

thanks for the info...so the stamps are exactly whats youve paid into the system over theyears?..

i live in germany and here they are having the same discussion..making people work for benefits...

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
Thats very big writing?

Anyway, anything Ireland does now MUST be approved by the EU.

Anyone who believes that the EU does not have outright control over Ireland is still living in the past.

It was pretty big writing lol..

Not in this case.. I know my EU and I have never spotted any case where a simple member state issue like Unemployment benefit has to be brought before the EU unless Irish citizens bring this issue to an EU court..

I know the Lisbon treaty very well.. show me where you have been informed of this?

While I do agree with you that anything which is covered by the Lisbon treaty must be cleared by the EU.. Thats only a thousand out of a million things it takes to run a nation.. We change our Dole every single budget and while the EU now checks every states budget before it goes to Parliament, how the Dole money is given is not under scrutiny.

If this was an EU wide issue, then wouldn't every member have to do it? And also, if this idea were introduced by the EU, why is the Irish government saying its their idea?? Because it has nothing to do with the EU turning into a communist state. Fact. Internal Irish Issue plain and simple.

Ireland is giving the least resisitant in Europe. They haven't even had to change the government yet. Its a test case.

As you said yourself the Eu must approve the budget now. Isn't this the only important thing in the country?

The gangsters bank has just announced today over 8billion in losses in the last 6months. The politicans are changing their story on this every 5mins because the EU is pulling the choke chain around their neck.

When Ireland is finished sorting this bank Ireland is completely and utterly fcuked beyond all belief for the next several genertions. The country is utterly finished.

reply to post by alienesque


Yea, they are called stamps because they used to stamp a card for you..

Basically when what you've paid into Insurance is finished, then you would be eligible for this system.. If it came in.

To be honest, from a realistic perspective, its not a bad idea at all.. If even for taking a burden off the Taxpayers... Simply because these people will be doing work that needs doing.

It is a form of Socialism but IMO, its not a bad idea.. Its only going to be whatever percentage of the Working population that has expended their social insurance.. And it actually does something for the person, the country etc etc

I also live in Germany, heard the discussion. Im not that well up on the system here because I've never used it and I'm not completely fluent in Deutsch.

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by alienesque

 

Yea, they are called stamps because they used to stamp a card for you..

Basically when what you've paid into Insurance is finished, then you would be eligible for this system.. If it came in.

To be honest, from a realistic perspective, its not a bad idea at all.. If even for taking a burden off the Taxpayers... Simply because these people will be doing work that needs doing.

It is a form of Socialism but IMO, its not a bad idea.. Its only going to be whatever percentage of the Working population that has expended their social insurance.. And it actually does something for the person, the country etc etc

I also live in Germany, heard the discussion. Im not that well up on the system here because I've never used it and I'm not completely fluent in Deutsch.

so..erm...why bother paying into it?..why not just put the money in the bank?

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
When Ireland is finished sorting this bank Ireland is completely and utterly fcuked beyond all belief for the next several genertions. The country is utterly finished.

There's been quite a bit of money lost alright but talking like that is one of the reasons I left the place..

There's a lot more to economics that being owed money by the banks.. Which hopefully 90% of it will be paid back overall..

And honestly man, if you're that depressed over the place, leave.. I went home for a wedding two months ago, bought the Irish Times and the Indo.. threw them away before I even got out of the Airport because it was all the same old complaining and complaining.. Everyone saying everything was screwed. Of course things will be bad if everyone things they are going to be. I blame the Media and the Irish mindset 100%.

Basic economics show that if things continue the way they are, the Irish economy will be purring nicely in two years and Jobs will be well returning.. So what the banks owe the taxpayer money.. Big deal.. Thats to be paid pack. And it will. Who cares about losing 10 billion to Anglo.. At least the whole system didn't wipeout. Its a small price to pay for the wastefulness of the place over the past decade. Just my 2 pennies.

Originally posted by alienesque
so..erm...why bother paying into it?..why not just put the money in the bank?

Sorry.. How many taxes do you pay that you don't want to pay?

What kind of a smart arse question is that? Jesus.

Its part of the system, get over it.