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Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson

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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by 23refugee
 


I don't think were saying those terms don't exist, we are just saying we have never heard them used before.




posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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Maybe the Tennessee folks should have taken an example from their Memphis brothers and sisters. This is what America and Christianity should be about:


Memphis Christians put out welcome mat for Muslims



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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these people in all honesty have as much of a right to be here as anyone else. i think the government pulled off 9/11, not some extremist muslim cave dwellers. it's normal to have some anger about the attacks of 9/11, but most of it is misdirected. we are all quick to say don't judge us by our governments actions, that we have no control over foreign policy and it isn't our fault, so what makes you think the muslim community as a whole can control what a few extremist sects of muslims do? short answer they can't, and it's not their fault. and before you bash me i'm not a left wing commie or a right wing intolerant hick, nor am i muslim i am just your average white middle american. blind hatred is not the answer to any problem.. we aren't making ourselves look any better while we drop cluster bombs on day cares and cover women and children with lit napalm. sure a few thousand americans died during these attacks, and that is very sad. but think of how many more of these innocent middle eastern citizens faced an unimaginably terrible death. can you imagine being burned alive? or seeing your child blown in half? can you imagine watching your mother or fathers house explode as a mortar shell tears through it and blows a crater in the ground where their living room used to be? what makes our lives more valuable than theirs? another short answer not one thing that i can think of. if you believe in america and christianity and freedom then you must also believe that we are all created equal or you are a phony a liar and a fraud, a big steaming egotistical pile of human waste.



[edit on 31-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I've never seen anyone arrested for proselytising outside of a gay pride function, much less blocks away. I don't want to hear it, but the First Amendment guarantees that they can. Doesn't appear to be the case in Dearborn, thanks to their tough police dept. This smacks of theocracy.
If the people of Murfreesboro used the law to prevent Muslims from fulfilling any tenant of their faith, they would be just as wrong. Whether I like it or not, spreading the Gospel is a tenant of someone's faith. Doesn't matter if they're from Dearborn or not. The Arab community of Dearborn doesn't get to cordon off a public area any more than the Scotch-Irish community of Murfreesboro do.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by 23refugee]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by nenothtu
 



how do you think doing so will in any way defuse the situation?


I don't think that I can diffuse the situation, the Right will not listen to a reasonable argument like every religion has a right to worship here in the United States according to the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights to our Constitution.


"The right".

"The left".

I see.

You have no interest in a consensus or compromise unless it accords fully with your own views, Otherwise, pour the gas on and let 'er blaze. Got it.

Carry on, then.




Or are you hoping for war in the streets?


I am just not naive enough to think that the Right want's a peaceful solution to anything. They no longer care if a peaceful solution can be reached, they have already decided that their Revolution is coming and they are hell bent on the destruction of the United States and the implementation of a Fascist regime that will make the Third Reich look like a PTA meeting.



Again, it's only "the right" fuelling the blaze.

Got it.

Carry on, then. Let's just burn this baby to the ground, see what comes from the ashes.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by 23refugee
 


Yea, I haven't heard either of those terms either.

I have heard Dearborn being referred to as little Beirut or little Baghdad before.


You all keep referring to the communiity as Dearborn, the fact is most of the Muslin's live in Dearborn Heights, not Dearborn, they are very different cities, just happen to be next to each other.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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wow.. I actually live in the town that this happened in.

I believe that the mosques should be able to be built anywhere that these guys please.

Murfreesboro police have been in a lot of trouble recently with racism and the likes so this doesnt surprise me at all. Although it mentions that this is a suburb of Nashville, its really very country like and has a lot of hicks and rednecks.

This is also the town that holds one of the larger Colleges in Tennessee " MTSU ". It really could be referred to as a college town. I dont appreciate these types of things happening here.. as alot of young students live here while going to college and I would like to think that the Muslim ones would not need to worry about going to worship. This is sad.



[edit on 31-8-2010 by waggz]

[edit on 31-8-2010 by waggz]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by waggz
 


Since you live in the same area, you should counter these people's actions by publicly showing your support for Muslims. Kind of like these people did:

ATS Thread



[edit on 31-8-2010 by nunya13]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


You think you're the only one I've accused of stereotyping, Wukky?

Not even remotely, my friend.

There's more than enough of that going on on both sides of this issue... Evil rightwingers...evil leftwingers... Yadda, yadda, and more yadda.

There is, last I heard, no evidence of rightwing involvement in this case. The only evidence of that that I've seen so far a lot of hyperbolic rhetorical flourishes by folks in this thread. ...and that doesn't equate to evidence. Opinion maybe, but not evidence.

This fire could have been set for many reasons. ...and yes, it could be a right wing attack on a mosque. If it is? Trust me, I'll say all you want in condemnation of it. But that's only one of several reasons...and you, and the others know this. Another reason? Insurance fraud? Has that been explored by anyone here? Given the attitude towards Muslims here in the states, don't you think it would make a great smokescreen for someones insurance scam? I do.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


Thank you for bringing it to my attention that this could have been done for a different reason other than hatred towards muslims seagull. It really didnt cross my mind until reading your post.

I really dont put it past some of the types of people that live in this area either tho.. Ill just keep an open mind.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by waggz]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by waggz
 


You have those "types" all over, waggz. Tennessee hardly has a monopoly on those. Both the haters of anything different then they, or the ones who use the haters as cover, for their own nefarious activities.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by whatukno
 


There is, last I heard, no evidence of rightwing involvement in this case. The only evidence of that that I've seen so far a lot of hyperbolic rhetorical flourishes by folks in this thread. ...and that doesn't equate to evidence. Opinion maybe, but not evidence.

This fire could have been set for many reasons. ...and yes, it could be a right wing attack on a mosque. If it is? Trust me, I'll say all you want in condemnation of it.


I strongly agree that there is no evidence of "right-wing" involvement in this. It could have very well been just dumb teenagers.

That said...there is irrefutable evidence of blatent right-wing fear mongering surrounding the specific Tenn Mosque and Mosques in general and I am of the strong opinion that it is important to think through the consequences of fear mongering rhetoric.

While I reserve judgement on the guilty parties in this instance until we know with certaintity, I am comfortable laying the blame for the fear mongering where it squarely belongs and would expect honest folks to do the same.

Lastly I think Wukky made a clear point that acts like this, whoever is to blame, deserve to be condemned and silence on the issue speaks just as loudly as condemnation.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


Oddly enough, around home we laughingly refer to insurance fraud as "winning the Kentucky lottery". Sadly, I can't post a source to prove that we do.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


Without a doubt there is a lot of fearmongering, or at least attempted fearmongering going around.

On that issue, I'm in lockstep with wukky, and many of you... I just don't buy into the paradigm that all conservative Christians have it in for Muslims. ...and you know, as well as I, that this is implied by many people when opining. While I'm not a Christian, at least in the classic sense of the term, I know many, as in lots, who are. They'd no more do this sort of thing than I would. ...and I wouldn't even dream of it.

There is room, and to spare, for all religions in the U.S. I have issues with most "mainstream" religions. Mostly that they are so caught up in their dogma, that they forget that there are many paths to truth. Isn't the entire premise of a religion, now I may be a little naive in this, the search for the betterment of ones soul, and to learn the true nature of God? How do atrocities of this nature, and make no mistake it is an atrocity if it is a hate crime, help in that?



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


I am agnostic myself and in terms of choosing a religion to follow Edward Abbey of Monkey Wrench fame summed it up fo me best...

"Orthodoxy is a relaxation of the mind accompanied by a stiffening of the heart."

There are christian groups as we speak reaching out in an earnest fashion to the Muslim Community, there are also the likes of Pat Robertson who said last week that a mosque in Tennesse could lead to a take-over of the the town and Burka's being required for school children.

It's never black and white.

Also...

Jewish Leaders Join Support for Ground Zero Mosque
news.yahoo.com...

When the American Jewish community is fighting for the rights of the American Muslims...well America can't be all that bad a place.





[edit on 31-8-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by seagull
 


I am agnostic myself and in terms of choosing a religion to follow Edward Abbey of Monkey Wrench fame summed it up fo me best...

"Orthodoxy is a relaxation of the mind accompanied by a stiffening of the heart."


As was I until a couple of years ago. My beliefs, such as they are, can best be summed up as "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you, but be ready to duck as necessary..."

There's a whole lot of truth to be found in that quote...would that more people of all faiths, or none, would realize that. Perhaps the rancor would be a bit less. Maybe.


There are christian groups as we speak reaching out in an earnest fashion to the Muslim Community, there are also the likes of Pat Robertson who said last week that a mosque in Tennesse could lead to a take-over of the the town and Burka's being required for school children.


There have always been these outreach groups. ...quietly, and without fanfare, doing what they can to make our world a bit better. If you think about it, what better legacy can one have? He/she tried to leave the world a better place...


It's never black and white.
All too often that's the case, indeed.


Also...

Jewish Leaders Join Support for Ground Zero Mosque
news.yahoo.com...

When the American Jewish community is fighting for the rights of the American Muslims...well America can't be all that bad a place.





[edit on 31-8-2010 by maybereal11]


Nope. Contrary to some opinions America actually is a pretty good place to be. People, before reaching an opinion about it, should perhaps see more of it in person, rather than taking for granted that what they see on the TV or on the computer screen is the (if I may be forgiven a pun) gospel truth.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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I had to post this statement - - as it is along the line of a discussion I was having in this thread.

From a commentary on Glenn Beck's Christian Rally.

"In a rather curious and confused way, some white people are starting almost to think like a minority, even like a persecuted one."

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


There may be some who buy into that notion, wrong though it may be...

In all too many cases, especially in public schools, and colleges, American children, not just whites, are taught just that. Evil was done by whites, therefore, by default, the whites are, or will be, evil if given the chance...

When one is inundated with it from childhood, it can be a tough thing to turn away from...or react badly to.

But... I'm not going to buy into the guilt that many try to foist off on me...nor, however, am I going to protest it by going to the other extreme and claim that I am persecuted.

Persecuted. Phoooey... Most Americans under the age of fifty wouldn't know persecution if it rose up and bit 'em in the butt...

Ask a black man, or woman from the South over the age of sixty about persecution. Or a Cambodian after the Khmer Rouge took power. Or Soviet dissidents of any stripe. Or any one of a hundred thousand groupings throughout the world about persecution... Don't ask Americans under the age of forty...most haven't a clue. ...and for that they should be grateful.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 



This fire could have been set for many reasons. ...and yes, it could be a right wing attack on a mosque. If it is? Trust me, I'll say all you want in condemnation of it. But that's only one of several reasons...and you, and the others know this. Another reason? Insurance fraud? Has that been explored by anyone here? Given the attitude towards Muslims here in the states, don't you think it would make a great smokescreen for someones insurance scam? I do.


The insurance fraud could only implicate the owner of the construction equipment, as the mosque has not been built yet.

Another poster rightly put forth the theory that it might have been the act of teenagers. This very well could be, just 3 days before this incident occurred a segment aired on The Daily Show about this exact construction project.

So, these are both equally plausible theories as to who did this.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
So Hitler sat in Parliament for awhile with his party until he decided to scrap the Parliamentary process and call for a new election where his party won on a platform of racism, anti-Semitism, right-wing populism, ultra-nationalism and cultural conservatism... sound familiar?


Anti-semitism?

Whether propaganda or not, I have seen videos of "rallies" that hate America all in the name of their own religion. Obviously the countries of middle eastern descent use politics to control their people through religion, which I find horrible. But this country is far from being anti-semitic.

Racism?
Black president. Not to mention the fact that these mosques ARE being built and not shunned by our government.

Right-wing populism?
Damn democrats in office, and even the republicans were as far left as my damn pinky!

Ultra-nationalism?

What country have you been to lately, the USA has lost much of that.

Cultural conservatism?

Welcome to the melting pot, where the Caucasian cultural slowly fades away in this country.

You have no clue what you are talking about and are trying to match to different cards.



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