Is Yahweh really the prime creator?

Originally posted by spy66
This experiance is what has lead me to try and find answers. I have no idea of how or where i got these questions from. Because up to a point i loved what i was doing. And i was hoping i would be sent to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. I was watching the news and practically praying for it to happen. And than suddenly this happens!!!

The Law of God is powerful my Brother-at-Arms. It is a very basic, instinctual truth that resonates within all of us. Do I want to be treated this way? No, I do not! Then why treat another this way.

All are our Brothers, I am glad you listened to God when you heard him.

Remember, forgiveness begins with yourself. Forgive yourself FIRST, then walk in the light evermore.

Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by memyself


Your concept of dimensions differ from my view. But you are right dont get me wrong. Its just that i study these things to day, and know things a bit differently. I know them as i understand them.

Even though i am being thought about dimensions i dont always agree with the teacher. Sometimes i don't think the teacher knows what he is teaching. He is just teaching words from a book. Get it?

Originally posted by Kelliott
Peace and Love

Kelliott

My Brother or Sister,

You preach a message of love by unlovingly dismissing and even challenging your Brothers and Sisters Belief. Is this what you call Love? Is this how you want to be treated?

I am not judging you for if you feel this is love, then by all means pursue it. However, I do suspect that you would not feel I loved you if I so easily dismissed something you held dear to your heart.

Just wondering...

With love,

your Brother

Re: spy66

I'll try to keep up with the terminology of 'compression', though I believe it to be insufficient and somewhat off the mark.

The existential level Sophia is said to operate from originally is trans-cosmic and does not really contain options of compression (it's dimensionless in the cosmic sense of 'dimension'). Even used allegorically I find the idea questionable. But.... OK, your conditions, I'll give it a try.

In some of the gnostic models, Sophia is the junction-point between cosmos/trans-cosmos, comparable to the split-splitsecond of creation in Big Banging ot emergence/'disappearence' in zero-point physics. Thus she's a kind of creator, but she's not considered the ultimate 'god'.

This will be hard to follow: The original 'material', coming from the ultimate 'god', is Sophia's own background (if it's easier consider it as scientific 'chaos'). She had also been given totally free will. Based on inexperience in the halfgod business, she decided to make some premature experiments on her own, which resulted in a dichotomy in herself. The ultimate 'god'/chaos material in her was split up, and the 'darker', 'heavier' or whatever part was aborted as cosmos and the archons. This is not considered as 'evil', but as 'error'.

The following story varies a bit from gnostics to gnostics, but the general idea is, that the archonts then continued the creation process by brushing up some of the details to their own likings, e.g. interfering with biological genetics.

The archons are said to be almost totally unaware of the overall situation, and believe and react as if they are ultimate 'gods', suffering from the common 'god'-megalomania and messing things up even more.

This 'dark' abortion of Sophia's is nonetheless still original ultimate 'god'/chaos material, but in such a corrupted form, that it'll take a considerable effort to clean up the mess. Gnostic 'christians' believe, that Christ was sent from the ultimate 'god' to help with the salvage.

This mythology ranges alternatively from just covering our sunsystem to all cosmos.

I must point out, that I have no allegiance to this charming story, and zero theological gnostic position. My interest lies mainly in the 'error' aspect of cosmic creation and later development, and mostly from an intellectual perspective.

Re: IAMIAM

I can only respect your decent and caring attitude towards people. That I find your way of expressing it somewhat glossy, isn't a big problem.

But you do have some opinions, which I find peculiar. The undeniable existence of suffering (as I like to call the 'predatory' principle), ....and staying with gnosticism and christianity, two different answers are given on this. One is what I presented in a recent post, and the other one is the judeo-christian. And you know as well as I do, that to uphold the concept of a 'good christian god', you will eventually have to resort to christian doctrines.

And that's partly what this thread is about. Critics of 'christianity', such as I, claim that these 'christian' doctrines not only are totally insufficient and tupsy-turvy, but also fabrications, falsifications and emerging from a background of religious and political violence.

They are not only taking away peoples' chance of finding 'reality', they are also encouraging totalitarian social systems.

Sorry about this direct confrontation, hope we can see it through without pie-throwing or name-calling.



[edit on 4-9-2010 by bogomil]

Re: Kelliot

In many ways I sympathize with you, insofar as I stay away from religion, theology and holy books as a part of my personal reality-tunnel. But then such things can be approached from an observer perspective.

I agree, that religion usually is conspiracy; some based on power, greed or general insanity, others on more lenient lines. But I have yet to meet a religion, which hasn't developed somewhat into a doctrinal system, and I find that dysfunctional.

Some of us though, do have a drive to find ultimate answers, or at least as close as we can get to such. And this is not only a mental illness; there are things intrinsic in life, which can do with some 'betterment' *, and finding proper directions for 'betterment' is part of the big quest for knowledge, even including trans-mundane origin.

This is human curiosity, and it's often boundless. Those who have it will for good or bad continue their search. Those who haven't will probably be a bit happier.

I admit, that I don't know much of what really is. But tomorrow I will know a bit more, and so on, until I get so demented eventually, that I don't care any more.

* E.g. dentistry.

reply to post by bogomil




This is what i wanted to read. I hope you understand my work with dimensions. I have tried to simplify them as much as i can.

Lets start out with Thee one and only God.

Thee God must be something. A dimension of some sort. Because to have awareness, you have to know who you are and what you can do.

Thee God must have always existed. And Thee God will always exist. To have this honor. God must be Thee dimension which houses everything.

This dimension can be illustrated with a image. Now,,, keep in mind that its just a illustration of what thee God must be. Its a illustration that will help us understand how God creates. And how it must look.


I am going to display a illustrated image of a dimension i view thee God to be.




When you look at this image you see nothingness. This darkness goes on for ever in all direction. Now, nothingness is not the same as nothing at all , keep that in mind.

The darkness represent the energy God is. The energy that makes up the volume of his dimension. It is also the energy that gives God his awareness and almighty power.

I have not given the black image any measurements from our measuring system to give the image depth. Keep that in mind. But i have to use lines from our measuring system to give the image depth to be able to illustrate how the dimension "God" create.



Here is the same black image but with 3 lines from our measuring system. These three lines give the image a new dimension. It gives the black image the illusion of depth.



All i did was to draw three lines that cross each other at different angels. Within math and science we use these three lines among others to measure a dimension.

There is no way we can measure this dimension, because it has no beginning and no end. Where the three lines cross each other is not the beginning. Its just what we use to pinpoint our observation field of view. In reality the lines don't exist. But the volume of the dimension does.

Now if this dimension is infinite in all direction. It must be a constant. That means there is not motion at all in this dimension. Its just there.

The only way it can change, is if It wants to. There is no way it can change accidentally all by it self.

So to be able to change and create it must have awareness, self control.


Now according to the myth. God created Sophia. Now there is only one place Sophia can be created and only one place she can exist.

Sophia will and can only exist smack in the middle of God, her creator. And there is only one way God can create her. And that is by a compression. There is no other possibility. Because God can't expand. God is already as big as he can get. God is also as small as he can get. That means God must compress himself and create a new dimension. A dimension which is more dense then him self.

I will stop there to see if you fallow.

You are Jesus mang.


*Alarm clock going off*

Originally posted by bogomil
They are not only taking away peoples' chance of finding 'reality', they are also encouraging totalitarian social system.

Sorry about this direct confrontation, hope we can see it through without pie-throwing or name-calling.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by bogomil]

My Brother,

What is "reality"?

I suspect that you will define it differently than I. I suspect that you will describe it differently than anyone else on this planet. We all would. Why?

Because we are ALL the center of our Universe, peering out at it through the eyes that we have. We will all see it from a different angle and interpret it our own way. In order to get along we must understand that we must accept each others perception without judgement.

It is a Law, be it Gods law or natural Law, I care not, but we all want to be respected for who we are and what we believe. The suffering you perceive is because we constantly violate this Law. STOP Breaking the Law, and Suffering will cease!

I do not perceive suffering in this world because I relieve it everywhere I go. That is what I would want someone to do for me if I were suffering. I wish everyone else felt the same as I do, and I hope they will one day. In the mean time, I am in control of only me. I choose to extend the very Love I wish to everyone I meet. Guess what, they return it!

The only pie I will throw your way is one of Love, the only name called, Brother.

Your Brother

Re: spy66

Thanks for your answer. In response I will refer to my own efforts of experience of trans-mundane existence (which fits well with some buddhist models, and not so well with others).

'Outside' cosmos there seems be no dimensions, directions, no polarities or 'anything' whatsoever. In my experience it's matter/energy-less, space/time-less and whatever-less except pure awareness. Some buddhists claim, that there's still a step to take, coming to a kind of vacum.

Can't say.

Put your diagrams inside cosmos, and they may have meaning. 'Not outside'.

With all respect, and no offense I hope, memyself finds this direction a blind alley, and considering the original intent of this thread, we are somewhat off-topic.

Should you and I later, on another thread, get a chance to follow this lead, I'm open. Now I just want to follow what direction memyself points out.

Communication has been a pleasure.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Dear Brother,
I embrace you in my mind!

reply to post by bogomil


Well personally i think i am right on topic. The topic is : Is Yahweh really the prime creator. That means i should be able to challenge the OP.

I never got to finish of what i started.

Personally i view the OP as isolated information restricted to written myths and hieroglyphs. If you only restrict the investigation to what is written on rocks and fur. How will you figure out the truth?

We are all capable of creating stories. At first we wrote stories on rocks and fur. Than later on paper. To day we make movies.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Re: IAMIAM

You wrote:

"The suffering you perceive is because we constantly violate this Law. STOP Breaking the Law, and Suffering will cease!"

See, ....you did go doctrinal at me at first try. You postulate a doctrinally defined 'law', which we humans break. Making us responsible for the whole mess.

The alternative view, that we are born into a dysfunctional universe is more realistic. Suffering existed before humans even existed (unless you believe in creationism ofcourse).

Humans have part responsibility for what's happening, but with or without us, suffering will go on; coming from elsewhere and most likely being cosmic.

Besides:

It's ofcourse commendable, that you do something about suffering, when you have the option, but it's hardly a justification for "I do not perceive suffering in this world because I relieve it everywhere I go."

There are still sufferings outside your possibilities to amend, and your percieving them or not doesn't make a iota of difference for those exposed to these sufferings.

Stop beating around the bush and get to the origin of this 'law' you talk about.

Do you all really talk like this in life?

If you don't then why are you talking to each other like this right now? Do your actions resemble your writings?

Originally posted by bogomil
Stop beating around the bush and get to the origin of this 'law' you talk about.

The origin is your own heart, conscience, God, what ever you choose to call the part of you that feels Joy, happiness, LOVE.

Do you not want it?

Of course you do. Everyone does. If you are not willing to give it, then why should you receive it? You can not receive it without first giving it.

Your Brother

Re: IAMIAM

My cat is a small sadist, who plays un-necessarily with birds and mice, before he kills them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, ...instincts. Maybe, but where did these instincts come from? Human hearts or cosmic principles?

But the birds and mice still suffer in any case, and whatever is in my heart doesn't change it.

Do you really propose, that even if all humans on this planet followed your 'bhakti' prescriptions or maybe disappeared, my cat would become a vegetarian or at least a clean killer.

Or maybe animals just don't count, in an overview of suffering.

Originally posted by bogomil
Re: IAMIAM

My cat is a small sadist, who plays un-necessarily with birds and mice, before he kills them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, ...instincts. Maybe, but where did these instincts come from? Human hearts or cosmic principles?

But the birds and mice still suffer in any case, and whatever is in my heart doesn't change it.

Do you really propose, that even if all humans on this planet followed your 'bhakti' prescriptions or maybe disappeared, my cat would become a vegetarian or at least a clean killer.

Or maybe animals just don't count, in an overview of suffering.

My Brother,

Come now, do you really dispute my "prescription" because an animal would not comprehend it? Your better than that. Do not level yourself to the animal kingdom.

Answer the question, do you want to be loved?

Your Brother

Re: Onequestion

There's considerably more humour in my private life than on this forum, but apart from that my conversation is preferably on the same level and the same direction as here.

I try to live according to my principles. It's my impression, that IAM is a 'straight' person, however much I otherwise disagree with him.

Re: IAMIAM

In a former post you wrote:

"The Law of God is powerful my Brother-at-Arms. It is a very basic, instinctual truth that resonates within all of us."

You're trying to sneak in the 'law of god' through the backdoor by the recent diverting tactics of talks about hearts. Next you'll be offering me the unconditional love of a pseudo-god I despise, if I only become a zombie in return.

Also no basic, instinctual truth resonates inside me, concerning the christian 'god'. Only disgust.

And in any case I happen to be an animal-lover, who consider sufferings of animals as important as I do those of humans. I do 'level myself to the animal kingdom' in compassion, yes.

I have no intentions of a further involvment in what I consider a revival meeting.

Originally posted by bogomil
I have no intentions of a further involvment in what I consider a revival meeting.

Hhhhmmm... I see now where the resistance is met my Brother. You perceive me as a Christian here to save your soul. Not so my dear Brother. Your soul is your affair, and I am not Christian, though I do speak their language when it helps.

So you know where I come from spiritually...

I was born and raised Catholic.

At the age of 5 my parents divorced and religion became Christmas and Easter events. Sure we said our prayers every night, that was our routine. At about the age of 7 I made my first heartfelt prayer. I prayed for Knowledge. I wanted to know why I was treated the way I had been up to that point. In the morning I did not receive an answer, so I dismissed Christianity all together.

I did not think of religion again till I was 13. Then I started down the path of Ritual Magick. Wicca, Aleister Crowley, etc, etc. I became well respected amongst my peers in this group and learned many things, dealt with many levels of consciousness, and traveled far in my understanding of things. Yet, I was still unfulfilled.

At the age of 25 I met a Palero (Priest of Palomayombe) at a wiccan church. I found his path fascinating and pursued my own house of Palo. I was soon initiated and became a very respected Palero in that community as well. Many more secrets did I learn, but was still unfulfilled.

At the age of 30 I decided to pursue Freemasonry. I asked a local lodge, and they received me. In three years I was elected the Master of that lodge.

I was still unfulfilled.

This year, I found God my own way. It came as a quite whisper that shook me to the core. It changed my life, revealed what I had been doing wrong, and made me who I am.

I am not seeking converts. I am seeking to understand ALL. Everyone has the right to walk what ever path they choose. It can be as hard as they wish, or as easy. I try to make it easy by showing the truth that all can agree on with or without a belief in God. We want to be loved.

If you want it, give it.

As for your cat, it can be trained to show mercy and set aside its animal instincts. Lead by example, and your cat will follow. Haven't we seen enough trainers demonstrate this to know it is fact?

Be well where ever you go Brother, and know you are loved by at least one person, regardless of what others may think of you.

Your Brother