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Is Yahweh really the prime creator?

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posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 04:20 AM
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I see you have already figured it out, and made up your mind. You have found the truth. What else is there to do but to give you a applause.

To bad i don't share the same conclusion of facts as you do. Because your work don't convince me at all. Even though the story is cool and all that. I dont buy it. Because they don't add up.

You see i have question about this myth. Questions you can't answer.




posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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Re: Flashesofblue

To have the small digression of 'here and now' done with first. The mantra mumblers are so obsessed with the RITUALISTIC aspect of finding 'here and now', that it complete drowns the possibility of EXPERIENCING it. They have noises in their heads, instead of the silence, which makes 'here and now' possible.

Mantras can be good tools, they are not aims.

But the state of a 'real' 'here and now' exists, and many people experience it occasionally, and mostly spontaneously. It is possible to learn to do it consciously.

In many different contexts, groups of beings/entities with certain similarities, have been experienced. These beings are non-corporeal (but can be percieved with enhanced perception), possess psi abilties and 'use' mankind in some way. A common idea is, that they predate or parasite on humans.

In the west there's considerably less knowledge about these beings than in e.g. indigenous non-tech cultures, and a lot of hypotheses are flowing around; more based on speculation than on real information or understanding. If you want, I can post some references.

There's a difference in how the word 'chaos' is used in daily usage or in certain theologies and science. The later uses it not as 'confused', but rather as 'not organised in the usual cosmic way'. In my opinion the most rational and attractive idea is, that 'chaos' (outsidecosmic formation) is what we call pure 'awareness'. It's not vacuum, it's just something mankind normally can't percieve. This is also possible to experience if a personal transformation can be made.

There are many models/'maps' of where 'truth' can be found. Inside the individual, in cosmos, in an alleged creator of cosmos or even beyond such an alleged creator. Gathering information/data can never be bad, but bying a predigested 'answer' is in 99% of the cases a blind alley. Very, very few people, books or 'maps-of-the-territory' are even slightly 'true' (I also don't have 'truth'), but it is possible to develop functional methods for searching 'truth'.

So don't despair, the journey can be long, complex and sometimes frustrating. But it can also be darned interesting for the motivated traveller. I've been at it for 45 years, and I'm still fascinated.

.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by bogomil]



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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Hi memyself

thanks for the information of Samkhya. I honestly believed, that Tantra was the earliest known expression of the principles involved. Your scholarship is impressive and appreciated.

I also (like you?) consider the trigunas more as principles than as emanations, a diagram is for me a coarse visual help to conceptualize things; well knowing, that the map isn't the territory.

Not including theological maps in my private reality-tunnel (mostly I just observe) and also not having competence to evaluate a possible 'inner' diagramming of chaos (the nameless) I suggest another approach, bringing us closer back to the main-theme here.

In present company, my suggestion is rather simplistic, but I have found it working for me.

"Samsara = Nirvana"

Which I interpretate as two reality-models made of the same 'stuff', but put together in two different 'perspective' ways. Though this, to my knowledge basically Mahayana buddhistic model, does have one weakness. It's unclear on the reason for how or what made the two 'perspectives' (Samsara/Nirvana) appearing differently, IF they are the same.

New-age religionists draw far too heavily on the 'oberserver-created' cosmos, and unjustified conclude, that the perspective is only in the individual. Whereas I believe, that the subject/object situation can be reversed. The individual is correspondingly observed back by all cosmos. No 'what the bleep do we know' philosophy for me. The pattern, the perception, the perspective is an overall inclusive process.

This leads to the hypothesis, that the perspective 'split' is trans-cosmically initiated (and ofcourse as such later imitated by cosmic fragments). But the origin of a perspective 'split' seems best placed on a gnostic 'map' with a demi-urge as the cosmic administrator/originator (or possibly as an extension of the Sophia myth).

Though there's so much to be said about epinoia, that Paulus probably would have claimed his experiences as such, if he had been confronted with the concept (which he most likely had).

Maybe overdoing my epistemological caution somewhat, I would not immediately consider epinoia as axiomatic.



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Sorry, but no one but the Creator really knows the truth. You have your idea about it and I have mine. The normal thing is to respect each other's views when we cannot bring them together.

I didn't expect to convince you, but stated my opinion, like you stated yours.

So let us conclude with this and maybe see what others have to write about it.



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
I see you have already figured it out, and made up your mind. You have found the truth. What else is there to do but to give you a applause.

To bad i don't share the same conclusion of facts as you do. Because your work don't convince me at all. Even though the story is cool and all that. I dont buy it. Because they don't add up.

You see i have question about this myth. Questions you can't answer.


My Brother, the Truth is like a jigsaw puzzle piece. We each have but one. We do our best to understand what it represents of the whole picture, but we cannot. Our piece is beautiful regardless, but still just a piece.

Speak with your heart and share your piece, that we all may better understand the whole picture.

Treat your Brothers piece as gingerly as you wish yours to be treated, and the picture will reveal itself.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by spy66
 



So let us conclude with this and maybe see what others have to write about it.


What can other write about except what the myth is already saying?

If my view and your view can't coexist together. Than one of us is not up to speed.

If the myth can't be explained scientifically than it is just a fiction story.

Names are just names. Each name represents its own dimension. It's the dimension that bears the name that does all the creating. A name can do nothing.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
If my view and your view can coexist together.


They CAN.


Originally posted by spy66
Than one of us is not up to speed.


Without this judgement.

With love

Your Brother

[edit on 6-9-2010 by IAMIAM]



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by spy66
I see you have already figured it out, and made up your mind. You have found the truth. What else is there to do but to give you a applause.

To bad i don't share the same conclusion of facts as you do. Because your work don't convince me at all. Even though the story is cool and all that. I dont buy it. Because they don't add up.

You see i have question about this myth. Questions you can't answer.


My Brother, the Truth is like a jigsaw puzzle piece. We each have but one. We do our best to understand what it represents of the whole picture, but we cannot. Our piece is beautiful regardless, but still just a piece.

Speak with your heart and share your piece, that we all may better understand the whole picture.

Treat your Brothers piece as gingerly as you wish yours to be treated, and the picture will reveal itself.

With Love,

Your Brother


True. But a physical piece of truth can be displayed in many different ways. But the clue is, They all have to add up to be the same physical truth. This myth doesn't add up to a physical truth. Because non of the pieces fit.

The myth is lying about God. And calling his work chaotic. When it can't be. We are making Gods creation look chaotic with all these myths about creation.

When you plant a seed that you know what is. You know what will come from it. So, when God planted his seed. God would know exactly what is to come from it. He created it with his own energy. And God did it with a reason.







[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


You are funny


I agree the whole point should be to get the different views to add up. Its the only way to find mistakes in our research, and get to the bottom of it.



posted on Sep, 6 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Try it this way Brother:

My view = A
Your view = B
Total picture, infinity = C

A+B=C

That is until D comes along.

C is infinite, therefore, it has room for D as well

A+B+D=C

Then E comes along...

A+B+D+E=C

Now F comes along... It is a negative, or hate. It tries to cancel out A, but can't because it is already proved in our formula.

Therefore F must subtract itself only

A+B+D+E-F=C

F takes on a positive, and then can become an addition to the formula

A+B+D+E+F=C

Any Better yet??

Only positives can add to infinity, negatives cannot take away from infinity, only rule themselves out of it.

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



If i were to make a equation of how God formed existence. I would start like this.

A = A or dimension A = Dimension A. This is God.

A compression = emitted energy 1A and compressed solids 2A - "A"

You have to use "A" with every thing that is created, because everything is a part of God "A".

But since what is created is not the dimension A. We have to subtract what is created by "A". This is what we call gravity.

EDIT TO ADD: scientists dont call God for the source of gravity. But "A" is thee gravity force.

Since God used compression to form existence i know all my equations will add up.

Existence will = A in the end when the expansion is complete.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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I love it my Brother!

When I get my heaven on earth, I'll send you an invite to join me on a philosophometaphiquantum evolutionary study. I am sure you will enjoy!

Here is a thought on your contraction theory. All expanding from a single point, how do you reconcile that the infinite points in the expansion are also equally infinite in 5 demensional space? and equally expanding at an infinite rate?



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 07:28 PM
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Hehehe i would like to discus my thoughts because i have many




Originally posted by IAMIAM
I love it my Brother!

Here is a thought on your contraction theory. All expanding from a single point, how do you reconcile that the infinite points in the expansion are also equally infinite in 5 demensional space? and equally expanding at an infinite rate?



To answer you question:

The infinite can't move. its a constant. It functions as a vacuum on all the other dimensions.

The volume of a 5th dimension is restricted by 2 direct forces.

1. The expansion of the energies within it.

2. By the restricted expansion force of the dimension surrounding it.

The 5th dimension will expand according to the pressure within it, subtracted by the resistance it meats from the dimension surrounding it.

The expansion speed will be that differential.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by spy66

Hehehe i would like to discus my thoughts because i have many




Originally posted by IAMIAM
I love it my Brother!

Here is a thought on your contraction theory. All expanding from a single point, how do you reconcile that the infinite points in the expansion are also equally infinite in 5 demensional space? and equally expanding at an infinite rate?



To answer you question:

The infinite can't move. its a constant. It functions as a vacuum on all the other dimensions.

The volume of a 5th dimension is restricted by 2 direct forces.

1. The expansion of the energies within it.

2. By the restricted expansion force of the dimension surrounding it.

The 5th dimension will expand according to the pressure within it, subtracted by the resistance it meats from the dimension surrounding it.

The expansion speed will be that differential.


If the infinite can't move, is not expanding infinitely, wouldn't that lack of motion cause all other motion to cease?

A star explodes in space. Travels to infinity. If infinity wasn't infinitely expanding, the energy of that star exploding would hit a wall, thus canceling infinity, proving it does not exist. Further more, each piece of Star is infinitely deep, ie. the hydrogen atom, continues smaller to the nucleus, which continues smaller into particles yet named or discovered, into still smaller particles yet name or discovered.

So really, existence is Infinity cubed X Infinity cubed X infinity cubed, yielding Nine dimensions,

Or better represented by a point within a circle, where the bounds of the circle continue on into infinity, and the point within the circle goes on into infinity, and every point within the circle goes on into infinity.

Thoughts?

Now we are having fun!



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


The infinite can't expand. It is as large as it can get.

The infinite can't move anywhere, because it has nowhere to move.

That is also why it must compress it self to create all the other dimensions. Because all the stars and planets and emitted energy must exist within it.

--- A star or a planet consists of compressed energy. The space between them consists of emitted energies from planets and stars.

Compressed dimensions will emit energy. And as they emit of energy they slowly change.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


The infinite can't expand. It is as large as it can get.



I see your perspective now.

I see it as constantly going and going and going like the energizer bunny.

Now if it does have bounds, isn't it not infinite, just a very large number?



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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Yes all the dimensions are changing according to its density and type.

A good way to imagine it is:

---All the solids are furthest away from the infinite. The emitted energies from the solids are closer to the infinite.


I have a image that gives a illustration of how it works.









[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


To try to also bring in some things relating to what we started with (even if this kind of hypothetical kind-of tzim-tzum-discussion is of some interest, it has taken us a bit away from the main issue):

Epilogue
--------
Why the “tree of knowledge of good and evil”? Or more correctly: “Tree of Wisdom [and therewith knowledge of good and evil]” – the Hebrew word for “knowledge” is jada‘ (and it also means “sexual intercourse” … e.g., in “And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain…“ [Gen 4:1]), but this word isn’t used here. The tree is in the original text called ‘atz ha-da‘at; da‘at means “Wisdom” (and the word has nothing at all to do with sexuality). Good and bad? Light and darkness? The true God and the archons? Does this concern the “forbidden” insight: the knowledge that except Yaldabaoth/Yahweh there are above him even higher gods, and even a Highest God? “You shall not know about other – and certainly not about higher – gods, because I shall be your only ‘god’!”

Yaldabaoth hence puts a lid over us with this “tree”: everything above him is taboo, everything with and below him is allowed. That is his world without the true God, analogous to the Anunnaki turning away from the prime creator pair to establish their own fake world without them.

Is it this very insight, this knowledge, which will make us free?! That Jesus wanted to give us and fore which he, therefore, had to die?

The movie Equilibrium by Kurt Wimmer is an interesting analogy about a society in which personal emotions are suppressed by means of a daily injection everyone has to take. The main person in the story once skips the injection, because the vial falls and breaks, and he begins to discover things people shouldn’t know. He then continues skipping the injections and gradually “wakes up”. An interesting detail is that that future state is governed by a “Tetragrammaton Council”. Most viewers will have missed this point here: “Tetragrammaton” is an old term that paraphrases the name of “God” as it is written with only four consonants: YHWH. In ancient Greek, tetra means “four” and “tetragrammaton” simply means “written with four letters”. At the end of the movie it turns out that the leader of the council is dead and only the council itself keeps the control.

It will not be a coincidence that Yaldabaoth came to be, but a preparation for the exodus of souls from God’s light world. As the Gnostics (see Origen) taught, we all existed from the very beginning in that light world. However, some of us wanted to go out of it to have experiences that are not possible to have in the light world – and to fully experience our free will (also in ways that are impossible in the light world). For this reason, God created various angelic levels and then a region of darkness for those, who were to fall still further down. Yaldabaoth was intended to be the lord of that region – of the region of ignorance – and he should, therefore, be ignorant himself. Sophia was not ignorant to the same extent but also not fully conscious of what she was really doing, when she had Yaldabaoth come into being – and it should probably be so, or she wouldn’t have done it.

To create space for these levels below the divine light world, God contracted himself – cf. the cabbalistic concept of tzimtzum (en.wikipedia.org...).
Also the archons have their Epinoias, but its light is deeply hidden in them. At the end they shall also find there way out of the darkness, even Yaldabaoth (a power, who according to Goethe “…always wants the evil, but as and end result yet creates the good”, that is: the souls that become free when their light-Epinoia is sufficiently awaken – illumination).

The Epinoia will open itself up in us, but institutions like the Church want to cover it up, and they don’t know what they are doing. They want to lull us to sleep with hypnotically working brainwashing suggestions (through monotonous rituals, singing songs together in certain ways and the art of speaking of the priests, as well as other things in the liturgy, but also by means of their power). Thus religion becomes superficial.

Why is the Goddess suppressed? Because she is associated with the Epinoia and could take us to enlightenment!

On sexuality
------------
We here see that “eating from the tree of knowledge” has nothing to do with sexuality, but with striving for “forbidden knowledge”. Yaldabaoth wants to keep us in ignorance. We also see that there is on all levels a kind of polarity that in Yaldabaoths world in a way got ripped apart. We, who live in his world, are no more androgynous – in one entity both male and female – but either the one or the other. That is why we seek to reunite to one being and that is one basis of sexuality. The other is procreation.
There are, however, teachings in various systems that we actually are both male and female, but that the one pole manifests physically in the incarnation and the other remains in the soul. That is why we can change gender from one incarnation to another.

Thus sexuality has two aspects:
• the union of two souls (with the aid of the body), and
• procreation.
Yaldabaoth wants that we shouldn’t know of the spiritual aspect. He wants to have power over our sexuality and for that purpose reduce it to mere reproduction, because there could otherwise be a certain “danger” that we could have a little bit of spiritual awakening. And since every normally functioning human being will occasionally have sexual feelings (even though they may be suppressed, but then they subliminally are still there), this also helps to enable his power over humans. The archons in a way still want to rape Eve and drag the competition of male sexuality in the dirt, so that it looses the spiritual aspect and is devalued).


[edit on 7-9-2010 by memyself]



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by spy66



If this image represents Gods only creation. We know that everything that God had planed will evolve from the expansion of this dimension. That means the other Gods cant exist, and dont have authority over Gods creation. They dont even have authority to argue with him.



Jesus Christ was given Godhood so that other gods could exist, have authority over God's creation, and have authority to argue with Him.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by memyself
 



To jump to the Point. I don't believe Lord God Yahweh is a real God. He calls himself the almighty God, because he has created a being with some degree of knowledge, but that knowledge is far from his own. But it is far greater than the knowledge possessed by the Man "male and female" that evolved naturally from earth. This Man "male and female" was probably not a human like us.

Lord God Yahweh has created a being with a advantage over the already existing Man "male and female" that naturally evolve on earth.

Lord God Yahweh forms "Man" from the dust on the ground?

There are already "Man" male and female existing on earth. Ref. Genesis chapter 1. Lord God Yahweh uses them to form a new. "Adam"

Adam is probably a lot smarter and a lot more attractive than the humans that have evolved naturally on earth. So he should have no problem finding a mate. And is probably capable of mating with a Man who evolved naturally on earth.

Lord God Yahweh does want his Adam to multiply and fill the earth with his kind.


Lord God Yahweh uses Adam to form a "female". It is not Eve that Lord God formed from Adam.


23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.


Hold on i am going to explain this Eve event later.


Lord God Yahweh plants a garden eastwards in Eden?


9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


That should not be a problem if you just have the seeds. If Lord God Yahweh can form a man from the dust on the ground.

"Man: male and female from earth". Is the dust on the ground.

Lord God should be able to reconstruct a seed that has evolved naturally on earth, to become a plant of his choice or his liking.

The garden some of us have in our yard is probably inspired by how Lord Gods garden looked. Is where we got the idea from. You know: To cut the grass, plant flowers and even shape the bushes. Even the way we live to day in our big cities are inspired knowledge from having seen the tree of knowledge.

In the middle of Eden. Lord God Yahweh had planted the tree of knowledge?

This tree of knowledge is where Lord God dwells. It's his camp/city. Some myths makes this out to be Atlantis. This is where Lord God Yahweh formed man "Adam and the female/woman".


What happened in the Garden of Eden?

According to Genesis chapter 2:8. A Eden must have existed before Lord God Yahweh planted his garden to the east. Lord God Yahweh planted his garden in a already existing Eden.


8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


If Genesis chapter 1 is true, and Genesis chapter 2:8 is true. Man "male and female" must have already existed in the original garden of Eden.

So Adam and the woman which Lord God had formed, can not have been the original Male and female on earth. They are copies of the original and himself.

Adam dwells in the garden with the woman which Lord God had formed from him.

Now, The woman meats a serpent in the midst of the garden. Is this woman the woman Lord God had formed out of Adam?


This is what the woman tells the serpent:


Gen. 3:2 We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:



gen. 3:3 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


It seams like this woman is speaking of a different God than Lord God Yahweh. The woman is telling the serpent what her God has told her. The God which she believes in. She is the original female that evolved on earth. And has probably been instructed by her "Tribe/people" Not to mingle with Lord Gods people.

She is allowed to enter the garden and to eat the fruit from it. But she is not allowed to enter the city where these Gods/Lord God lives.


Gen. 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Now the serpent, the being from this Lord Gods garden tels the woman:


4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


The serpent tels the woman that what she has been told by her God. The God which er people believe in. Because she must have been instructed by the leaders of her people, not to learn their knowledge. The serpent is telling her that she will not die. The serpent is telling her that she has been lied to by her people, and about their God.


5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.



In the verse above, the serpent is telling the woman that she will become like him, like them. Her eyes will be opened and she will know good and evil. She will be able to tell if the religion she and her people are subducted to is good or evil.

She will be able to learn the moral values of what her people are doing.

And that is not the knowledge the leaders of her people would like her to learn, because they speak and enforce the word of their God/religion. And they want it to stay that way.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



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