Extreme Left is COMPLETE TOTALITARIAN/ Extreme Right is COMPLETE ANARCHY

Extreme Left is COMPLETE TOTALITARIAN/ Extreme Right is COMPLETE ANARCHY

Do you subscribe to my views?

Do you also agree that The United States of America is at the center? Constantly fighting to be more left and right... but the end, at the center. Or the equilibrium? I think it is good.

I believe that US out of all the other countries, are actually close towards the center of this dynamic. I believe that being in the center is the most safest and correct place to be.

For example, in the UK, their liberals (to me) are close to "communist" and their conservatives (to me) are close to "US democrats/liberals"

You see, UK is not in the center. thus not good.

Then lets see how heavy leaning left country looks like... Greece is a great example.

Small country, very very liberal.

Collapse as government over-promises goodness and equity to its citizens... The country is soooo.. leaning left that it collapses in itself... Pity

Lets see what other heavy leaning LEFT countries look like???.....

Russia, Ukraine, Estonia, Croatia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, East Germany, Poland... basically all the Eastern European countries....

Also, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia.....

I believe in GENERAL....

Leaning more towards left is MORE dangerous than leaning more towards right.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by saabacura]

what on earth are you on about , ??

totalitarism has nothing to do if your left or right

same goes with anarchy

as for the countries you mentioned , they practice democratic dictatorship same as u.s and rest of the world

reply to post by saabacura


How are British Liberal Democrats "Communists"? Do you even know what the word Communism means?

UK Liberals are against the state, tax cuts for low and middle earners and their leader, currently the Deputy Prime Minister, is in favor of replacing the NHS will an insurance style system.

Umm... I think your assessment is pretty half-hatched.

Fact is... most Anarchists and Anarchist thought are LEFT-wing... not only that but advocates call for a peaceful, free, and sustainable Anarchy.

As for totalitarianism... historically/ideologically there are many examples of totalitarianism/authoritarianism on BOTH the left and right. Hitler was a right-wing authoritarian, Stalin was a left-wing authoritarian.

There are also Libertarians on both the left and right. An Anarchist or Socialist would be left-wing, a free-market Libertarian would be right-wing.

From everything I've learned, here in the United States... the right-wing has proven far more authoritarian than the left in the past 50-100 years. Most of the battles for more freedom, rights, equality, human/animal rights, liberation, revolution, environmentalism, civil liberties, etc. have come from the left-wing. This is not to say that some who are right-wing haven't also fought for or supported such things... but I'm just speaking generally as far as the GREATEST incidence in each wing.

Also keep in mind... Greece has a HUGE Anarchist population who have been out in the streets en masse... and they're all left-wingers.

It's a good thing to demand rights and benefits from your government. If governments exist (ideally) to serve US then we must demand it from the government, otherwise it'll turn to top-down tyranny (which it'll do anyway, honestly).

Capitalism and modern conservatism isn't working so good for America either. The obsession with globalization, markets, Wall St., corporations, laissez-faire... these have gotten us all into a mess that has echoed throughout the world. The problem wasn't government regulation really, it was both DE-regulation and government corruption/coziness with banking/corporate interests.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by NoHierarchy]

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by saabacura

 

How are British Liberal Democrats "Communists"? Do you even know what the word Communism means?

UK Liberals are against the state, tax cuts for low and middle earners and their leader, currently the Deputy Prime Minister, is in favor of replacing the NHS will an insurance style system.

I donnt know if you British. But to me, Your liberal party or labour party whatever is leaning way more left than US democrat party. That is all I am saying

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Umm... I think your assessment is pretty half-hatched.

Fact is... most Anarchists and Anarchist thought are LEFT-wing... not only that but advocates call for a peaceful, free, and sustainable Anarchy.

As for totalitarianism... historically/ideologically there are many examples of totalitarianism/authoritarianism on BOTH the left and right. Hitler was a right-wing authoritarian, Stalin was a left-wing authoritarian.

There are also Libertarians on both the left and right. An Anarchist or Socialist would be left-wing, a free-market Libertarian would be right-wing.

From everything I've learned, here in the United States... the right-wing has proven far more authoritarian than the left in the past 50-100 years. Most of the battles for more freedom, rights, equality, human/animal rights, liberation, revolution, environmentalism, civil liberties, etc. have come from the left-wing. This is not to say that some who are right-wing haven't also fought for or supported such things... but I'm just speaking generally as far as the GREATEST incidence in each wing.

Also keep in mind... Greece has a HUGE Anarchist population who have been out in the streets en masse... and they're all left-wingers.

It's a good thing to demand rights and benefits from your government. If governments exist (ideally) to serve US then we must demand it from the government, otherwise it'll turn to top-down tyranny (which it'll do anyway, honestly).

Capitalism and modern conservatism isn't working so good for America either. The obsession with globalization, markets, Wall St., corporations, laissez-faire... these have gotten us all into a mess that has echoed throughout the world. The problem wasn't government regulation really, it was both DE-regulation and government corruption/coziness with banking/corporate interests.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by NoHierarchy]

We are not here to get Nit Pickey. Alright?

Human rights, Animal Rights, More rights, More equality, civil rights, environmentalism are actually more totalitarian than anarchy. These are all RIGHTS... which only comes from creating more LAWS and REGULATIONS... The LEFT is about creating more and more laws.

I don't know what George Bush JR. actually is. He is obviously not a true conservative. He is a fake. So he is no good example to use here.

I don't care if there are Greek anarchist there. Greece fell, because it was TOO LIBERAL. Too much over-promise to its citizens to get elected, and yet, no economic output to match the entitlement programs.

An extreme liberalism can corrupt the holes in the democratic system!


OH, by the way, Hitler was not a right wing Authoritarian. He was a complete totalitarian.


[edit on 30-8-2010 by saabacura]

Look also at Spain. Very liberal to American viewers. Siestas, vacations, minimum work hours which are below the average, good pension, great welfare programs, universal healthcare, universal education to colleges.... etc etc... which are so great to an American point of view....

But in reality... these are all false promises at the end...

When you are too LEFT, you like to romanticize or fantasize the IDEALS while not grasping the realities.

There are many countries that fail because of being too left,

But there are no country, in my recollection, of being too right.

There has been no country that has been TOO RIGHT.

Never existed.

I like how most politicians are using the United States politics as a way to divide the people. The people on the so called are as guilty as the people on the so called right. Anyone would do anything to take over in power.

reply to post by saabacura


What about Germany during World War II? It is possible to be too conservative to the point where there are no freedoms and people are sent to death camps. Also, the poor can be left to die in the streets even if they are willing to work, people are mistreated at jobs, etc.

The far left has shown a totalitarian face lately in America, with laws preventing freedom of speech, a lot of backward thinking, tons of micromanaging. It is true that being non-realistic results in no one being helped once there are no resources to go around, and rationing follows. This goes against the original idea. There has to be something to tax, after all.

Both sides are basically failing. Each side has half of what I want to see.

As for what the OP says, I think he has the basic idea, but I'm fairly suspicious that although the right wing in America wants to pretend to be about anarchy at the moment, if it gets into power, it will act fairly totalitarian as well about social issues.

On a side note, is anyone else getting an incredibly dark vibe in general?
[edit on 30-8-2010 by darkbake]

[edit on 30-8-2010 by darkbake]

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by saabacura

 

What about Germany during World War II? It is possible to be too conservative to the point where there are no freedoms and people are sent to death camps. Also, the poor can be left to die in the streets even if they are willing to work, people are mistreated at jobs, etc.

The far left has shown a totalitarian face lately in America, with laws preventing freedom of speech, a lot of backward thinking, tons of micromanaging. It is true that being non-realistic results in no one being helped once there are no resources to go around, and rationing follows. This goes against the original idea. There has to be something to tax, after all.

Both sides are basically failing. Each side has half of what I want to see.

As for what the OP says, I think he has the basic idea, but I'm fairly suspicious that although the right wing in America wants to pretend to be about anarchy at the moment, if it gets into power, it will act fairly totalitarian as well about social issues.

On a side note, is anyone else getting an incredibly dark vibe in general?
[edit on 30-8-2010 by darkbake]

[edit on 30-8-2010 by darkbake]

Germany in WWII was actually neither left or right. It was fascist.

Fascism is an interesting idea because it can be anything thing it wants to be. You can have a dictator and yet still be liberal or conservative. If you have Fascism, you NEED to have a wise dictator. Hitler really did revive the German economy from hyperinflation... good in that respects... but what for??? Adolf Hitler rapidly revived the german economy to go into war. Not great in that aspect in my opinion.

Yeah I can see how you feel about the right wing party being a fake conservative.

I sometimes feel the Ron Paul might be the real conservative??... donno

[edit on 30-8-2010 by saabacura]

reply to post by saabacura


hitlers ideas of social structure came straigth from the east , ...

germany was not a fasist state , italy and spain where if you read history...

and nazi derives from the sentence national socialism ,

fasism is when state and corporate industry merge


a few thougths...

If you guys want to learn what Fascism is then check out my old thread that gives more detail to the ideology. www.abovetopsecret.com...

I see no real difference between either the named Left or Right leaning politicians. Both are based on one thing and one thing only - maintainig their own power base whatever the cost to the country and it's people.
Behind both in our current two party systems are the real power brokers, the money men - big bankers and industrialists. They are the ones who call the shots and make policy, NOT whichever talking head happens to occupy the top slot in the halls of power.
The people we see, the politicians, are selected for power but not by us. Anyone attempting to run for power without the backing of the big money men is doomed to failure or, should they actually get the popular vote, doomed to an untimely accident or assassination. After all, can't have some uppity politician ruining their nasty power games and control over us all!

The whole Left / Right thing is nothing more than a manufactured smokescreen to keep the people divided. Unfortunately, the politicians and corporate media play the people all the time and the idiots fall for it every time.
The Tea Party idea started out having no Left / Right agenda and was equally oposed to the continued monetary policies of both main parties. The politicians, corporate media and their big money backers have, over time, misrepresented it and moulded it's image to suit their own plans, and so the game continues.

Originally posted by zerbot565
reply to post by saabacura

 

hitlers ideas of social structure came straigth from the east , ...

germany was not a fasist state , italy and spain where if you read history...

and nazi derives from the sentence national socialism ,

fasism is when state and corporate industry merge


a few thougths...

This is new to me. Where from the East??

Originally posted by Britguy
I see no real difference between either the named Left or Right leaning politicians. Both are based on one thing and one thing only - maintainig their own power base whatever the cost to the country and it's people.
Behind both in our current two party systems are the real power brokers, the money men - big bankers and industrialists. They are the ones who call the shots and make policy, NOT whichever talking head happens to occupy the top slot in the halls of power.
The people we see, the politicians, are selected for power but not by us. Anyone attempting to run for power without the backing of the big money men is doomed to failure or, should they actually get the popular vote, doomed to an untimely accident or assassination. After all, can't have some uppity politician ruining their nasty power games and control over us all!

The whole Left / Right thing is nothing more than a manufactured smokescreen to keep the people divided. Unfortunately, the politicians and corporate media play the people all the time and the idiots fall for it every time.
The Tea Party idea started out having no Left / Right agenda and was equally oposed to the continued monetary policies of both main parties. The politicians, corporate media and their big money backers have, over time, misrepresented it and moulded it's image to suit their own plans, and so the game continues.

You are so right! I agree and you make what I say early make more sense...

What I said either was that I have never seen a "right" states... while there were many "left" leaning states.

reply to post by saabacura


You're just totally wrong. I don't even know how to address you, you've been thoroughly brainwashed by being kept from the totality of the facts. That's why you complain about me being "nit picky". Well... being "nit picky" about the facts is called being INTELLIGENT and knowing what you're talking about.

Hitler WAS RIGHT-WING. Once again, EVERY RESPECTED HISTORIAN and respected political theorist (which are the experts on this) will agree on this. Hitler USED Socialism to appeal to people, but he went back on promises, corrupted the unions, and ACTIVELY worked to DESTROY socialism and communism. The Nazis, once in power, were notoriously anti-communist, anti-liberal, anti-gay, pro-corporate power, etc. They were right-wing no matter what name they called themselves. Just like many Communist regimes call themselves Democratic Republics... does that mean THEY ARE democratic republics? NO! Just like the National Socialists were NOT socialists.

Seriously... do your homework or STOP spouting uneducated propaganda bout this. You're doing more harm than good, and I'm sick of hearing the disinformation.

Some of the MOST SUCCESSFUL AND PROSPEROUS countries are partially socialist. Look at the Scandinavian countries... they have the highest marks on just about every test of a country's well-being, happiness, prosperity, crime, etc. etc. and they all have very socialized social programs- universal health-care, free/cheap schooling, paid maternity leave, mandatory vacations, living wages, etc.

Here in the US, when we let the "market" dictate things... it turns into another form of TYRANNY except this time coming from markets, businesses, and financial schemes rather than government authority figures. Yes government is tyrannical but SO are right-wing market schemes. The housing bubble and banking corruption were due to DE-REGULATION of markets. The reason markets are so de-regulated in America is because the rich banking/corporate special interests more or less CONTROL our government. The Federal Reserve ITSELF is a PRIVATE institution, NOT a federal one (despite its name, once again).

Greece and many other economies are collapsing because America is collapsing. It's a domino effect that has nothing to do with workers rights, regulation or social benefits/safety nets getting in the way of economies. The nature of Capitalism is to drag the rest of humanity (and the planet) through its booms and busts... the result is, we're not gonna f*ckin take it anymore. Not from the right-wing or the left-wing, not from governments or from markets/businesses.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by NoHierarchy]