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What the HECK America?!

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posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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A little background: I grew up in the United States of America after immigrating there from the Republic of Malta. I gained citizenship and was very politically active, going so far as to attend public demonstrations, repeatedly write letters to my congressmen and senators (on State and Federal levels), and to actually vote. Three years ago I returned to Malta, where I also have citizenship. In my time here I have seen America go insane. I cannot be more explicit, so just imagine a bunch of random symbols after 'go' and before 'insane'.

The first thing I'd like to note is that the American right has gone nuts. I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the Republican Party of Bush. The current 'Tea Party' movement seems to be growing either in popularity or (more likely) in how vocal it is each day, and it's also growing more insane. Facts and the like are all being ignored when it comes to discourse, and Fox News repeatedly lies to them and they lap it up. And if you say Fox News doesn't lie, here's some proof. It's sad that the most honest name in news is a comedian. Why has the right devolved into a primitive form? I used to have a modest respect for my political opponents, but it seems that the introduction of Sarah Palin and the election of a black president (which I'm totally cool with, kudos on that one
, shame I had trouble with my absentee vote) has tipped you over the edge. WHAT HAPPENED?!


The second thing I'd like to point out is that the American left has lost any testicular fortitude it might have had. What's wrong with you guys? You had a supermajority in congress. You could steamroll anything you want through. Instead you played politics. And you put up with outright lies. Right now the left is losing the political struggle not based on its policies or on the interests of the people but on a pack of lies put forth by the GOP to influence public opinion. They wheel out caribou Barbie and she spouts off some lies, Glenn Beck sheds a few tears, and nobody says anything. Why doesn't Obama address the lies? He may not be the best president we've ever had, but he's the best president we've had in the last 10 years. You've actually done some great things for the people, like the recent financial regulations. You screwed the pooch on healthcare reform, but that was all infighting. Why are you allowing lies and infighting to kill you?


Thirdly. You! Yes, anyone of you. Either side. Why haven't you learned that the only way to gain traction isn't through organized political movements like moveon or the tea party, but through social consensus? It wasn't the suffragettes that got women the right to vote, it was the fact that enough people agreed with them. They may have had the courage to stand up but they were only successful because the people were behind them. The people aren't behind the tea party, money is. Get behind yourselves.




posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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People are just tired of being steamrolled....



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Hi madnessinmysoul,

All that you say is true and it will likely get worse ... but to be honest, you're in Malta, it's end of August, wind is blowing, sun is shining every day, the sea is warm. You're politically conscious to a fault my friend ... if I were in your flippie floppies US politics would be the last thing on my mind.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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I voted for Bush in 2004 and use to listen to Beck daily before he joined Fox News. Me and my wife even attended one of his X-Mas shows a few years back.

The right has gone...how do you say it? Bat # crazy?



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by ljtg123
 


If they were tired of being steamrolled they'd begin appealing to reason and fact rather than emotion and illusion. The whole tea party movement seems to be based on the absence of sanity and the insertion of emotional patriotism.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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I agree with you completely on your no. 1 about the tea party and the insanity of the right (I also agree with schrodingers dog!).

As for no. 2, I think the problem is that, politically speaking, there is no real "American Left." Sure, there are Democrats or whatever, but they stopped being the leftists who fought for things like civil rights a long time ago. It seems they sold their political souls to the corporate devil too, and now all we're left with are right-leaning "moderate" centrists, and the extreme right. It's really difficult to find a genuine "leftist" anymore...

As for your no. 3, it takes time to change the social consensus, and that time only comes when a group like the suffragettes have spent years standing up and speaking out; that's how enough people eventually came to agree with them. You'd think that with today's technology making it easier to stand up and be heard, the amount of time would lessen, but I find that technology has only made people more polarized, clinging more desperately to their beliefs and ideologies. I think it has something to do with this:



In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by ljtg123
 


If they were tired of being steamrolled they'd begin appealing to reason and fact rather than emotion and illusion. The whole tea party movement seems to be based on the absence of sanity and the insertion of emotional patriotism.


Sorry to burst your bubble but the facts are facts,millions of people are walking across our borders, the government tries to step on the necks of people that do the right things like enforce our laws! The government is going to cost us all lots of money for free heath care that it is not free! one cancer drug has been removed from the government heath care already,most are to blind to see whats happening! The government has taken the rights of water away from us if you have a pond on your property the government has the power to tell you not to use it if they want! our sovereignty is being taken away from us we give the UN a report that on AZ. That is none of the worlds business what we do with our immigration laws! the government is about to place Taxes on our that are oppressive and wealth steeling, the government has given billions of dollars to banks Give me one reason my money should be given to a bank? And our government has just passed a law that would if they so see fit to make it a crime to grow your own food if you want! You have no ideal what this country is and what they are doing to it so you go mind your counrty and we'll mind ours!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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What you have is this. Bush left the country in a terrible state and wrecked the Republican Party. The Center moved to the Dems. The Republicans having lost the center had to mobilize the elements of the party they most often try and hide, the christian far right. Now they are loud but they are small. Over all while Obama has lost popularity as have the Dems in Congress the only people doing worse are the Republicans. So the plan is to hope the center stays home and only the radical right shows up for the elections. Its the way you have do things after a crushing defeat. Obama does not bother to correct people like Beck on things because the people who listen to him are not people who can be swayed and the majority of people in te center just think Beck is an idiot. The next time the Dems take a beating in all areas like the Republicans did you will see them use similar tactics. Its just politics. When the Republicans get back in power you will see the far right shoved back into the shadows just like normal so they do not scare off the center.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Why the hell are you yelling at me when you're using the hilariously laughable left-right paradigm as the basis of your thread and political knowledge?

Because I think the last thing America needs is the continue that whole left/right thing. Mainly because the concept of "left" and "right" politically speaking seems to have lost the big ol' RELATIVITY aspect.

Beyond all that, fact is once the size and power of the state reaches a certain stage, left and right is simply a puppet show.

So if I may ask another question, why do you enjoy puppet shows so much?



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Hi there! I've seen footage of Malta, and it is vastly beautiful. Also, one of the most expensive places to live on earth, I'm told.

I would like to ask you, what specifically are you referencing that you would like us to change? From the tone of your OP it rather sounds like it could be most anything; I mean, we have so many problems that we need to solve. Is there a particular area you had in mind?

Also, obviously knowing American politics somewhat, how do you suggest we set about solving the problems you specify?

American politics could use some help and fresh thoughts. I'm wondering what you have in mind; and am most definitely interested in your suggested solutions.

Peace to you, from the U.S.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I am not a member of the tea party so I am unsure what they have done that is hacking people off. It seems like the tea party people are doing exactly what you are suggesting. Am I wrong?



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 




You could steamroll anything you want through


I've been here on ATS for a while and I see talk, all the time, of a second American Revolution, perhaps even an ARMED one. I'm afraid that if the Democrats actually did have the guts to pass what they want Fox News would just whip them into a frenzy and thousands of Christian and Right Wing Militias would march on Washington immediately.

Another part of it is some myth put forth by Beck, and others, that being progressive is bad, that progress itself is bad, that we need to go back to primitive values. People keep trying to move the nation backward into the Cold War communist-paranoid-"God Fearing" McCarthy Era. The world has changed and they are trying to move us backward and as a result we're left stagnated.

I'm not sure what the hell is wrong with us here in the US of A but honestly it kind of scares me. Like the opposition to this Mosque and the recent surge of anti-gay sentiment. It is frightening that people pretend to be for the Constitution, but then oppose equality for gays and freedom of religion/speech for Muslim Americans.


So yeah, we've pretty much gone insane.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


So, I guess government just isn't big and intrusive enough for you, is that the problem? Because the Tea Party's main idea is that government is growing out of control and needs to be downsized. I guess since we aren't totally fascist or socialist yet, that is a big problem for you?



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by slinger

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by ljtg123
 


If they were tired of being steamrolled they'd begin appealing to reason and fact rather than emotion and illusion. The whole tea party movement seems to be based on the absence of sanity and the insertion of emotional patriotism.


Sorry to burst your bubble but the facts are facts,millions of people are walking across our borders, the government tries to step on the necks of people that do the right things like enforce our laws! The government is going to cost us all lots of money for free heath care that it is not free! one cancer drug has been removed from the government heath care already,most are to blind to see whats happening! The government has taken the rights of water away from us if you have a pond on your property the government has the power to tell you not to use it if they want! our sovereignty is being taken away from us we give the UN a report that on AZ. That is none of the worlds business what we do with our immigration laws! the government is about to place Taxes on our that are oppressive and wealth steeling, the government has given billions of dollars to banks Give me one reason my money should be given to a bank? And our government has just passed a law that would if they so see fit to make it a crime to grow your own food if you want! You have no ideal what this country is and what they are doing to it so you go mind your counrty and we'll mind ours!!!!!!!!!!


As I pointed out in a separate thread, Obama's directing the Arizona issue to the UN Human Rights Council (apologies if I have the wrong quango name) is appropriate as it is an issue of potential violation of the rights and liberties enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a document which is fundamental to the organization and mission of the UN, the Charter to which the United States is a party.

You cannot choose to be a part of an organisation, accept an obligation to uphold human rights, and then decide to violate them.

The issue of exporting the matter to the UN aside, nothing has yet been said or issued by that body - people complain that the UN should have no business in domestic policy (which it doesn't and never asks to - until such domestic policy potentially violates the UDHR or UN Charter), but the point is that the UN has issued no such statement condemning the Arizona fiasco (and, unlikely though it is, they may well return with an answer stating that such a policy is non-discriminatory and that they should defer to the Member States in their decisions on domestic policy). My point being is that people are getting up in arms over nothing. The UN, in case you had not noticed, is an ubiquitous body whose nose catches a whiff of everything governments do, be it domestic or foreign.

Welcome to the world post-1945, Mr.Right-Winger.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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The Right and the Left are so polarized they'll never get anything done. They have sold their souls for the almighty vote and they are corrupt, they enter office poor and leave wealthy. I would also suspect there is an element of blackmail involved as well. If you remember when Clinton first took office Hilary summoned all the personal FBI files on all Congressmen, Senators and leading Bureaucrats. As best as I can recollect she had to return the files but then how hard is it to keep copies of those records, hell they can be put on a flash drive. We also know J Edgar Hoover kept all the dirt he could on every politician to cover his own ass. If you remember Hoover liked boys and was a crossdresser as well, that finally came out in the media after he passed away. Wouldn't surprise me abit if Rahm Emanuel has similar records on these people as he seems to get anyone in government to fold under him. The whole damn place is ripe with corruption and should be cleaned out.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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From my understanding Malta's Economic Outlook is directly tied to the UK. This might be quite the consideration you should be focusing your efforts on, one pile of poop might smell the same as another if you take the time and look down.

I am certain Malta is a lovely place as is the US. Your general concerns as to how to fix US is probably quite old school given the fact we have been taken over by Social Progressives and this isn't the Apple Pie you once had or thought you had.

Personally I do agree that protests and rallys are not the way to go; those only lead to anger and milking (money munchin by so-called concerned). We should all scare the you-know-what out of them simply by turning from them and walking away, then move in for the kill on election day. Remove any and all who have more than their share of "lifetime Achievements" in Public Service. We already have lost our Constitution why not bring in the young bloods and demand they listen, they obviously are just as scared as the rest because they are starting out. It doesn't matter the Party line, what matters is can the individual put the People before the Party.

Anyways, thanks for your concerns and well-intended blasting of our Nuts. Enjoy yourself because Europe is going to hurt just as much if not more, and the last place you would want to be is on an island. That is if you follow any real thoughts on ATS. Best start a little Maltese garden of your own now! Thankfully there is fish for a while!

Wave to Moammar for us!



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by duality90
 


What about the rest of the things mentioned? I for one have a problem with The President of The US telling on one of the states. How weak is he? I am embarrassed. Also I just heard that when asked Mr Obama said he didn't know anything about The Restoring Honor Rally yesterday. How blind, stupid, or just plain arrogant is he? Mr Obama and a few Democrats are trying their best to destroy this country, and they have used every underhanded means necessary to do so.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


You did a great job of dismantling the Straw Man you set up, but I'm not talking about more government or fascism. And living in Europe now means that socialism is no bogeyman for me. It's a system that's been demonized as the ideology of the USSR when it's nothing like that.

Also: how does the tea party support less government? They want to continue government spending through renewing tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%, when letting them expire would allow the nation to actually pay off its debt. That's just one example of a counter-intuitive argument.

I've not seen an instance where the tea party has been anything but anti-democrat and pro-far right ideology. They don't want less government because they support the people that actually increased the size of government in the 8 years prior to Obama getting into office and did nothing about it back then. They're a group formed and fostered by media outlets like Fox News and designed to fleece the people.

I'm speaking as someone who's pissed off at pretty much everyone in America for one reason or another right now and actually has an objective separation from the issues.


reply to post by ljtg123
 


For a second I thought you were actually a reasonable person. I hate this line, and it's worse because only one side really uses it. No political force in America is trying to destroy it. What would be the point of that? Especially the party IN POWER. If you're in power you normally try to preserve the institution that you're in charge of. The entirety of this statement is counter-intuitive and inane.

As for 'telling on' a state, he was (as was explained) doing his duty as a member of the UN. A state in our own nation is asking people with a slightly darker skin tone to 'show their papers' and the people who love to immediately invoke Hitler as a comparison to Obama don't take issue? What the HECK people? Seriously, this is racial profiling beyond insanity, especially in a state like Arizona where there are plenty of legal immigrants and citizens who have slightly darker skin. America isn't a nation where any group of people should be afraid of a human rights abuse when they're just walking down the street.


reply to post by Greensage
 



Originally posted by Greensage
From my understanding Malta's Economic Outlook is directly tied to the UK. This might be quite the consideration you should be focusing your efforts on, one pile of poop might smell the same as another if you take the time and look down.


We're a small nation and I'm actively involved in politics here. It's not directly tied to the UK, but we're too small of a nation to rely entirely on self-sufficiency. We've accepted the reality that we'll need to rely on international trade.



I am certain Malta is a lovely place as is the US. Your general concerns as to how to fix US is probably quite old school given the fact we have been taken over by Social Progressives and this isn't the Apple Pie you once had or thought you had.


Heh, I'll be starting a thread on Malta soon enough. We aren't exactly a nation of social progressives...sure, on certain issues like healthcare we are, but my ideas are simply practical here and I do disagree with a great many things in how the Maltese people and their political system work.



Personally I do agree that protests and rallys are not the way to go; those only lead to anger and milking (money munchin by so-called concerned). We should all scare the you-know-what out of them simply by turning from them and walking away, then move in for the kill on election day.


I'll toast to that one.



Remove any and all who have more than their share of "lifetime Achievements" in Public Service.


I'd disagree with this. I'm not saying to vote for incumbents, but I'm against not voting for someone simply because they've been there for a while. Look at their voting records and then vote based on that. It's actually a lot easier to figure out whether or not an incumbent has your interests at heart than a newcomer for that exact reason.



We already have lost our Constitution


Doubtful there. America's about as constitutional as its been for a while, give or take a few things from the PATRIOT act, though it could be doing better with repealing that. You might have lost tiny bits of it, but the majority of it is still has ingrained as it's always been.



why not bring in the young bloods and demand they listen, they obviously are just as scared as the rest because they are starting out. It doesn't matter the Party line, what matters is can the individual put the People before the Party.


But these so-called 'young bloods' typically have political backers who are most definitely not 'young bloods'. Take all of the people Sarah Palin is endorsing, the second she endorses them they owe her a debt. They say something she disagrees with, she can drop the endorsement and start blasting away, ruining their chances.



Anyways, thanks for your concerns and well-intended blasting of our Nuts. Enjoy yourself because Europe is going to hurt just as much if not more, and the last place you would want to be is on an island.


A well defensible island like Malta? I'm sure anything that can be thrown at us isn't going to do much. We suffered the worst of it in WW2, worse than pretty much any other country.



That is if you follow any real thoughts on ATS.


You mean if I follow the lack of thought? If you look at my threads, I'm more of a skeptic.



Best start a little Maltese garden of your own now! Thankfully there is fish for a while!


I've already got an acre growing in the back, but that's simply because I enjoy gardening.



Wave to Moammar for us!


I'll give him a one finger salute, like most Maltese would.


reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 



Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Hi there! I've seen footage of Malta, and it is vastly beautiful. Also, one of the most expensive places to live on earth, I'm told.


Thank you, I'll agree that it's beautiful. But it's only if you consider property prices. The rest of it is pretty reasonable, especially with out healthcare. Food is a bit pricey too.



I would like to ask you, what specifically are you referencing that you would like us to change? From the tone of your OP it rather sounds like it could be most anything; I mean, we have so many problems that we need to solve. Is there a particular area you had in mind?


Education. There was another thread on here that asked for the three main problems America has. Education is the biggest one. Not just education at the school level, but at the personal level. I want people to take notice of what politicians are saying and actually look for the truth and the facts and let the truth and the facts shine through.



Also, obviously knowing American politics somewhat, how do you suggest we set about solving the problems you specify?


Personal initiative seems to be the only way to change the issue of education. And a democratic system only works at its best if the public is educated as to their interests. I'd hope all the other dominoes fall into place.



American politics could use some help and fresh thoughts. I'm wondering what you have in mind; and am most definitely interested in your suggested solutions.


Put Jon Stewart on prime time network TV, he does the best job at exposing the hypocrisy of both parties and doesn't shy away from calling out news sources either. Tell people to start investigating the validity of political claims themselves without looking at biased sources. Go straight to the facts.

Also take fear out of the equation. The right has been using fear to fan the flames for too long and it has infected everything in American politics. Fear of economic collapse, terrorists, pandemics, socialist secret muslims, etc.

Another one would be to look at politifact, but Sarah Palin is already demonizing them, I guess truth has a liberal bias?



Peace to you, from the U.S.


Peace to you too.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


there was a tea party when bush was in?

stay in malta, it's a nice place. you can stir up stuff there.


and you want john stewart to do the news?



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by fooks
 


No, there wasn't a tea party when Bush was around. That's my point. Bush exploded the size of government and the so-called conservatives didn't say a thing. The tea party didn't start until a black liberal took office and the republicans lost both houses in congress.

That doesn't seem the least bit suspect to most people?



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