Ron Paul calls out the liars... I meant Palin and Beck

Originally posted by mothershipzeta
How about one from each?

Don't worry about selling me on Palin not getting things right.
She's a politician afterall.

Glenn Beck:

"I mean, we've got czars now. Czars like John Holdren, who has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population."

Um .. we do have czars and have had for decades. They are a problem. That's exactly what Holdren said. I went and read his stuff.
He had kookie ideas. He may claim not to believe that stuff now ...
but with politicians ya' never know.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


Beck was talking about fundamentally transforming Americans themselves. That we should all go back to living honorably and giving that as an example to others. Palin was talking about Obama's statement of fundamentally transforming how America is run in gov't. Two different references. No contradiction.

reply to post by Rockpuck


This is why I like you so much Rockpuck. You nailed a good one!
Libertarian and Conservative-Christian ... do they really go together?
Yes .. I'm asking that question.
I have always been under the impression that they don't really.
That Libertarians are a 'mind your own business' kind of folk when it
comes to religion.

Beck has gotten VERY religious lately.
At least .. he's gotten sounding very religious.
It kinda doesn't go with the Libertarian side of things.

Is he inventing something new?
Fundamentalist Christian Libertarians ... ?????

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Neocon Neo Conservative

sure i know what it means!

Neoconservatism

Neoconservatives came to dislike the counterculture of the 1960s baby boomers, and what they saw as anti-Americanism in the non-interventionism of the movement against the Vietnam War.

Conservatism = afraid of change to preserve the Old ways
more like their vision is a Leave it to BLeave it to Beaver Worldeaver World a W.A.S.P. Setting W.A.S.P. with a stay in the Kitchen Apron House Wife with a Dash of a Controlled Religious Dominated Lifestyle

Its their Ideal of what America should be like
of Course this is my Personal Opinion .. is there any other explanation?



In January 2009, at the close of President George W. Bush's second term in office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism"[46]:

* "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms
* low tolerance for diplomacy
* readiness to use military force
* emphasis on US unilateral action
* disdain for multilateral organizations
* focus on the Middle East
* an us versus them mentality".

en.wikipedia.org...
was Originally a Far Left Movement that went a Full 180 to the Right !! since
the Red Scare!!!!!





[edit on 30-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by FlyersFan


Wow it's like seeing a ghost..... FF, is that really you?

No, I don't think Christian Conservatives could be Libertarians.. Christian Conservatives are far to fearful, hateful and self indulged.. they literally cannot produce the compassion, respect or understanding of other belief systems to follow true Libertarian doctrine, which is as you say, mind your own business and let people do what they want without infringement of government.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

This is why I like you so much Rockpuck. You nailed a good one!
Libertarian and Conservative-Christian ... do they really go together?
Yes .. I'm asking that question.
I have always been under the impression that they don't really.
That Libertarians are a 'mind your own business' kind of folk when it
comes to religion.

Beck has gotten VERY religious lately.
At least .. he's gotten sounding very religious.
It kinda doesn't go with the Libertarian side of things.

Is he inventing something new?
Fundamentalist Christian Libertarians ... ?????

Ah, the vacationer has returned...

Fundamentalist Christian Libertarians have a name


G.O.P

The two idea conflict and the libertarians tend to pander to authoritarian views of their
christian cousins. This is why conservatives will always ALWAYS serve up BUSH candidates, the gang name - GOP!!!

Beck co opted the Ron Paul movement,,, in clear sober honesty, the TPM is a rebranding campaign for GOP politicians, big on defense, light on civil liberties,
big on global policing... folks who will look the other way when the same spending
continues and point the finger at the Dems disowning their participation in the same thing.

Nice to see you back

reply to post by Janky Red


That makes no sense what so ever. None at all. Democrats have more in line with Libertarians than Republicans in all honesty, as well as Fiscal Conservatives.. but "Fundamentalist" of any kind would obviously be an oxymoron when calling them "Libertarians" ..

Did you know the majority of the GOP is Socialist? And Corporatist.. as well as fundamentalist..... this makes them Fascist..

There are Libertarians in the Republican Party, but the Republican Party is in little to no way Libertarian.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
true Libertarian doctrine, which is as you say, mind your own business and let people do what they want without infringement of government.

So is Beck inventing a new Libertarian branch ... Fundamentalist Christian Libertarians?

Or perhaps he's trying to bring Fundamentalist Christians into the Libertarian fold so they'll vote Libertarian and thus have his political group of choice gain votes?

Or perhaps he's not really Libertarian at all but just claims to be?

Or perhaps he's recently 'found the fundamentalist God' and he'll be leaving the Libertarians for the conservative branch of the Republicans?

Oh isn't this fun ... speculating?

anyways ... I figured the two didn't go together ... Libertarian and Fundamentalist Christian Rally organizer. I could be wrong .. but it doesn't seem to go together.

reply to post by FlyersFan

So is Beck inventing a new Libertarian branch ... Fundamentalist Christian Libertarians?

I believe that the Republican Party created Beck to pose as a "Libertarian" to rally the fringe of the Republican Party back to it's roots.. because so many fled the party in the last 2 elections into Constitutionalists, Libertarians, or Democratic. He's been doing a very good job at it. He's more or less trying to destroy the Libertarian movement is anything.

And no he's not Libertarian, he's more in line with traditional Fiscal Conservative beliefs, but his more fundamentalist views from his "born again Mormonism" prevents him from being true Libertarian. And regardless of what people say about him, including myself, he's usually spot on when it comes to fiscal matters and the Federal Government.. this is why so many believe he's a Libertarian.

I think it's just hard to put people into groups "you're this or that" type of thing.. I just wouldn't call him a Libertarian, I'd personally call him a Fiscal Conservative.

Yet another front page thread of people calling each other names. I thought I was on the Daily Koss for a moment.

Interesting that Beck is constantly accused of Racism and yet Ron Paul is the only one who can be proven to have a Racist background from the Newsletters he signed and distributed under his name. Paul is hardly an innocent little Lamb. Interesting how his supporters ignore that. I'd imagine most of you have read the Racist rants he published and signed. Perhaps you actually believe him when he claims he did not know what was in the letters he signed? Yeah sure

Nobody in Office or in Politics has clean hands. Have fun slinging poo at each other folks. You are all well trained and controlled. They use division to control you and many of you comply with glee. Your so busy tearing each other apart they can get away with whatever they want and they know it. They don't even have to pay you.

I don't support Palin or Beck, but I do support Free Speech and Assembly. This is all about a half million people who had the courage to join together in common cause. It is terrifying those in power because it means they are not in full control. It does not matter to me if I agree with them fully or not, I applaud them. Anyone who does not is part of the problem. You are controlled to the level you want to deny the same freedoms you demand to those who do not agree with you it seems. Hypocrisy is rampant even here on ATS.

The Tea Party is not a threat, its a breath of fresh air in system that has been fully controlled by the DNC and the GOP for far to long. Look what a mess they have made of this country. Race Baiting is rampant. The truth no longer matters. Slander of anyone who does not agree is not only not frowned upon, it's encouraged.

Originally posted by Rockpuck


I think it's just hard to put people into groups "you're this or that" type of thing..

That is about the only sensible statement on this thread.

reply to post by Vitchilo


I never got onto the Ron Paul craze, not simply because I doubt he'd be allowed to get into the oval office considering how the powers-that-be probably view his positions, but because I wasn't sure if he was simply singing another variation of the same political tune.

With his more recent statements, especially disagreeing with the odd stances taken by his own son on the Cordoba House project (aka Ground Zero Mosque) when he could have simply given a "no comment" styled approach to the opposition, I have to say that Ron Paul seems like one of the most honest politicians today.

Although he doesn't appear to specifically call out Glen and Palin for the $nake-oil salesmen they are, he definitely lays down the obvious framework used in their deception.

Looks like Bristol Palin is following in her mothers opportunistic shoes, and will alleedly appear on "Dancing With The Stars".

You know...because she is a star now for being knocked up out of wedlock, speaking to teens about the dangers of premarital sex alongside the importance of marriage, and getting engaged three times but remaining unmarried.

Restoring honor starts at home.

- Lee

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Exactly, Beck and Palin were the PTB's puppets to try to subvert and control the tea party movement.

And sadly, it worked perfectly.

Damn right.
And of course it did - who doesn't love the tent-pole snake oil salesmen?
And if you don't want no snake oil, then bubba knows where you can git yer hands on some cheap gold...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Janky Red

 

That makes no sense what so ever. None at all. Democrats have more in line with Libertarians than Republicans in all honesty, as well as Fiscal Conservatives.. but "Fundamentalist" of any kind would obviously be an oxymoron when calling them "Libertarians" ..

Did you know the majority of the GOP is Socialist? And Corporatist.. as well as fundamentalist..... this makes them Fascist..

There are Libertarians in the Republican Party, but the Republican Party is in little to no way Libertarian.

Well as far as GOP is concerned, I think they have a special position in the dynamic,
because they are alleged against government, yet retain the social programs and
create massive overhead and bureaucracy with MIC projects. When Bush got elected
he was the "conservative" cats meow, at least in the fundamental neocon crowd.
However his actions arguably sanctioned by the conservative voting base, was voted for twice by the same people who now bemoan the principle of what he did, TTPM
at large. In return, they offer forth people like Palin who IMO is no different than Bush... A tad different than Obama functionally

In a funny way, they (popular "TP" manifestation) are utilizing the climate they helped create to drum up the same folks who helped provide the popular support to achieve this end. Popular liberal motive would not have allowed for those "greedy corporations" to manipulate and robbed the economy which proceeded the government
interdiction. I believe it was exercising a hands off approach during the Bush era which allowed for the initial catastrophe.

I believe the GOP now uses libertarian doctrine, because of the shared economic theory. However the GOP consistently paints corporate loopholes as FREE MARKETEERING. Some libertarians appear to ignore the fact that these gestures are not truly FREE and therefore are not effected by free market function. They only amount to LOOPHOLES used to perpetrate theft. These GOP creations resemble the free market Approach concept and I think Libertarians are happy to have any movement in the "right" direction. This is often times why many liberals seem to mistake libertarians for GOPer's or Corporatists in disguise. To open up one portion of a highly regulated system is not a FREE MARKET, especially when this new "FREEDOM" creates a front door opportunity for fraud and massive theft. Unfortunately this concept is far to detailed to teach anyone with partisan like conviction.

a good conceptual example of the GOP at work

If you allow for cars to blow thru red lights, what is the point of green lights???

It appears to be very easy to blame the failings of traffic lights in general, disregarding the fact that by deregulating the nature of red light you have really undermined the entire point of the regulatory system... this is GOP 101

The GOP uses this commonality and in this case obscures its true nature by hiding behind libertarian constructs. Tax cuts, deregulation and the evils of SS, Medicare and
General welfare provided the bridge between the GOP and libertarians.

In the end I do not disagree with you, I think often times you disagree with me because of my liberal stench, I might to the same sometimes in the converse.




[edit on 30-8-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Wolfenz

Neoconservatives came to dislike the counterculture of the 1960s baby boomers, and what they saw as anti-Americanism in the non-interventionism of the movement against the Vietnam War.

In January 2009, at the close of President George W. Bush's second term in office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism"[46]: * "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms * low tolerance for diplomacy * readiness to use military force * emphasis on US unilateral action * disdain for multilateral organizations * focus on the Middle East * an us versus them mentality".

Nice try Spin master, I dont care what Clarke says, we dont get to make up our own definitions of things.........thats what the dictionary is for...

I love how you guys love to spout the word Neocon because it sounds so bad, but most of you dont even know what it means......

Do you guys deliberately not educate yourselves?

Naa its a typical liberal progressive to tactic to take words and twist them into something else to make them derogatory in an effort to slander and or discredit people.....

From Mariam Webster dictionary , where the definitions we go by here in the US come from......

1 : a former liberal espousing political conservatism

So all those people you accuse of being neocons out there, have to have been liberals first.......seriously people.......

p.s. use Wikipedia all you want, anyone can edit it..........YOU CANT EDIT WEBSTERS

[edit on 30-8-2010 by ManBehindTheMask]

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Neoconservatives came to dislike the counterculture of the 1960s baby boomers, and what they saw as anti-Americanism in the non-interventionism of the movement against the Vietnam War.

In January 2009, at the close of President George W. Bush's second term in office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism"[46]: * "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms * low tolerance for diplomacy * readiness to use military force * emphasis on US unilateral action * disdain for multilateral organizations * focus on the Middle East * an us versus them mentality".

Nice try Spin master, I dont care what Clarke says, we dont get to make up our own definitions of things.........thats what the dictionary is for...

I love how you guys love to spout the word Neocon because it sounds so bad, but most of you dont even know what it means......

Do you guys deliberately not educate yourselves?

Naa its a typical liberal progressive to tactic to take words and twist them into something else to make them derogatory in an effort to slander and or discredit people.....

From Mariam Webster dictionary , where the definitions we go by here in the US come from......

1 : a former liberal espousing political conservatism

So all those people you accuse of being neocons out there, have to have been liberals first.......seriously people.......

so wait??? Why did such a mass of Conservative voters come out to vote for Bush and his cabal???

Giving the fact that bush stocked his cabinet with Ronald Reagan veterans, does that make Ronny a Liberal??? I mean you and the dictionary seem to be saying Bush and his political associates are liberal.

Now if Ronny was a liberal, was there even a real conservative who served as POTUS in the last half century???

I mean Obama's corporate tax rate is currently lower than Reagan, does this make Reagan a bigger socialist?

My point is you can re brand all you want, but the fact is many of you sanctioned and supported the package you were sold. Your whole popular representation, at large, is by your definition liberal,

so why is the GOP still around???



[edit on 30-8-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red



Care to point out how ANYONE said ANY of those people were liberal?

Dont try to circumvent...........

The definition is pretty well straight forward......

No one said anything about Bush or anything else.........nice deflection tactic tho.......

Just because it may not fit what all the libs want it to , means nothing, because they like to distort the word into something different..........

You cant argue with the dictionary........well i guess you can but its futile

reply to post by Vitchilo


Corporate freedom is not the same as individual freedom. The Tea Party has been promoting corporate freedom since GB and Palin started infiltrating them. There is no corporate right to freedom. Groups of people who work against the individual prosperity at a profit deserve the protection of the government. Yes, let corporations act with freedom to make choice and control their profits. But, before I ever start supporting the TPM again they need to allow private individuals the right to sue the pants off groups of people who do harm to an individual, when the harm is done for-profit.

reply to post by Gorman91


Funny how you tell someone to learn history and THEN post videos of Hollywood created revisionist history.

Oh wait, did they have YOUTUBE back then?

People just crack me up!

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Do you guys deliberately not educate yourselves?
....
From Mariam Webster dictionary , where the definitions we go by here in the US come from......

I think you meant Merriam Websters Dictionary, you deliberately educated self you.

So all those people you accuse of being neocons out there, have to have been liberals first.......seriously people.......

i'm all in favor of being deliberately educated MindBehindTheMask....

Definition of NEOCONSERVATIVE
1: a former liberal espousing political conservatism
2: a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means
Source:www.merriam-webster.com...

Let us review what the Merriam-Webster Thesaurus says about what “assertive” is:

1
having or showing a bold forcefulness in the pursuit of a goal
Synonyms ambitious, assertive, enterprising, fierce, go-getting, high-pressure, in-your-face, militant, pushy, self-asserting, self-assertive
Related Words argumentative, bellicose, belligerent, combative, contentious, discordant, disputatious, gladiatorial, militant, pugnacious, quarrelsome, trigger-happy, truculent, warlike; hyperaggressive, overambitious; dynamic, energetic, enterprising, gung ho, hustling, strenuous, vigorous; emphatic, obtrusive; adventuresome, adventurous, daring, dashing, emboldened, gutsy, venturesome, venturous; audacious, bold, brash, brassy, bumptious, cheeky, cocksure, cocky, confident, determined, forward, impudent, insolent, overconfident, presumptuous, unapologetic, unsubdued, unyielding; bare-knuckle (also bare-knuckled or bare-knuckles), feisty, scrappy; dominating, domineering, imperious, lordly, magisterial, overbearing
Source: www.merriam-webster.com...

Let us review what the Merriam-Webster Thesaurus says about what “Progressive” is:

being far along in development
Synonyms developed, evolved, forward, high, higher, improved, late, progressive, refined
Related Words precocious; full-blown, full-fledged, full-scale; aged, grown, mature, matured, perfected, ripe, ripened; civilized, educated, enhanced, enlightened; contemporary, current, cutting-edge, latest, leading-edge, mod, modern, new, newest, newfangled, new-fashioned, novel, now, present-day, recent, space-age, supermodern, ultramodern, up-to-date
Near Antonyms green, immature, underdeveloped, undersized (also undersize), underweight, unripe, unripened; savage, uncivilized, uneducated; early, embryonic, germinal, primeval, primordial; antediluvian, antiquated, antique, dated, fusty, hoary, musty, Neanderthal (or Neandertal), obsolete, old, oldfangled, old-fashioned, old-time, out-of-date, outworn, passé, past
Antonyms backward, low, lower, nonprogressive, primitive, retarded, rude, rudimentary, undeveloped
2
not bound by traditional ways or beliefs
Synonyms broad-minded, nonconventional, nonorthodox, nontraditional, open-minded, progressive, radical, unconventional, unorthodox
Related Words advanced, contemporary, modern; forbearing, indulgent, large-minded, lenient, permissive, tolerant; extreme; impartial, objective, unbiased
Near Antonyms hard, rigid, strict; doctrinal, dogmatic (also dogmatical); bigoted, blinkered, intolerant, narrow-minded; reactionary, unreconstructed
Antonyms conservative, conventional, hidebound, nonprogressive, old-fashioned, orthodox, stodgy, traditional
3
being or employing the latest concepts, styles, or techniques
Synonyms advanced, avant-garde, cutting-edge, progressive, state-of-the-art
Related Words pioneering, revolutionary, trailblazing; alternative, antiestablishment, nontraditional, unconventional, underground; bizarre, far-out, outré, way-out; fresh, new, novel, original; strange, unaccustomed, unfamiliar, unheard-of, unknown, unprecedented; contemporary, current, hot, mod, modern, modernistic, newfangled, new-fashioned, present-day, red-hot, space-age, ultramodern, up-to-date
Near Antonyms conventional, customary, established, orthodox, traditional
Source: www.merriam-webster.com...

p.s. use Wikipedia all you want, anyone can edit it..........YOU CANT EDIT WEBSTERS

p.s. but you did edit "Merriam" to "Mariam" on ats, you deliberately educated self you.

not your typical ovis aries,
et


[edit on 30-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]