Revelation; The two witnesses

Originally posted by Logarock
There is at least one conversation recorded between God and one of these spirits or some spirit.

In Revelation? Which passage?

reply to post by Logarock

Originally posted by Logarock
There is at least one conversation recorded between God and one of these spirits or some spirit. The seven spirits are probably individual and separate from The Holy Spirit.

But they are attached to the Lamb, who is Christ. Rev., 5:6

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth



A full discription is not given.

Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

reply to post by DISRAELI


oh but they were witnesses. They were the site of a pivotal moment. They contained information that couldn't be found anywhere else. Depends on definition of witness. I felt, since Revelations was sorta cryptic, perhaps we assumed they were living entities.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth



Yes they are but each apparently must have some task or tasks.

reply to post by Logarock

Originally posted by Logarock
Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Yes they shall rejoice at the rebuilding of the Temple, which is symbolic of the plummet in the hand of Zorobabel. And so they shall rejoice in the Holy Spirit, who dwells in the Temple, in us.

If we do not rebuild ourselves in the peace and the love of God, we will surely destroy ourselves.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

That renewal is an ongoing task, isn't it?
It's been happening since Jeremiah's time.
But God keeps doing it.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Yes He does.

I am trying to find a very old book that I have that was written about the Holy Spirit. If and when I find it, I'll post the name of the book and the author on this thread. It is very enlightening, and it has taught me many things.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

Please do.
That would be encouraging.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Logarock
There is at least one conversation recorded between God and one of these spirits or some spirit.

In Revelation? Which passage?

2Ch 18:18-21 ¶ Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and [on] his left. And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.

Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And [the LORD] said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do [even] so.

reply to post by Logarock

Thank you for posting that.
My remarks were really about the usage in Revelation. I think there are times when the number "seven" is more of a label meaning "belonging to God" than a real number.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
If we do not rebuild ourselves in the peace and the love of God, we will surely destroy ourselves.

To each his own. The Witnesses will never be accused of having to much peace and love as it were.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Logarock

 

Thank you for posting that.
My remarks were really about the usage in Revelation. I think there are times when the number "seven" is more of a label meaning "belonging to God" than a real number.

Well this passage dosnt really show that this spirit was one of the seven spirits but who knows.


I do believe the seven eyes in the OT are the same as those in Revelation....but who wouldnt.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Logarock

 

Thank you for posting that.
My remarks were really about the usage in Revelation. I think there are times when the number "seven" is more of a label meaning "belonging to God" than a real number.

Yes but is their a clear seperation between functionality even individualy among the numbers that total seven when the Lord uses the number. Seven lamps, spirits, eyes, stares, ect.

Gen 41:7 And the seven thin ears devoured the seven rank and full ears. And Pharaoh awoke, and, behold, [it was] a dream. .......Gen 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; [it is] because the thing [is] established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

Good research on the post DISRAELI.



The tranfiguration of Jesus with Moses and Elijah are representative of The Law and the Prophets and how they must give way to Jesus Christ. Also Moses represents those who die and go to be with the Lord, Elijah represents those who won't die that will see the return of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by nlouise
Good research on the post DISRAELI.



The tranfiguration of Jesus with Moses and Elijah are representative of The Law and the Prophets and how they must give way to Jesus Christ. Also Moses represents those who die and go to be with the Lord, Elijah represents those who won't die that will see the return of Jesus Christ.

Not really friend. This was Jesus becoming one of "them" not they giving way to Jesus. It was part of the fullfilling or the prophets and in this case becoming transformed. There are several reasons this is true. Important here is that their work is not done. If Christs transfiguration was to mark an end of something there would be no need for the two witnesses to come latter. Moses and Elijah represent grace here.

"If you knew Moses you would know Me for Moses spoke of Me"


What do you think happend to Elijah? Hes on life support somewhere? Hes in a transfigured state right now....which means granted exstended life untill the time of his return and death. Christ gained that state. Christ had to gain that state. But then became first born, first fruit amoung many brothers and is now in a GLORIFIED state. The witnesses will have to give up thier transfigured state by passing through death at some point.

reply to post by Logarock

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
If we do not rebuild ourselves in the peace and the love of God, we will surely destroy ourselves.

To each his own. The Witnesses will never be accused of having to much peace and love as it were.

By rebuilding ourselves in peace and love I did not mean that we should surrender to the enemy. It is more of a surrender to the Holy Spirit, who will have all of the answers that we will need, when we will need them.

We spend about half of our lives resisting the Spirit. Sometimes it takes a little pain before we get to where we are going. But the Spirit will guide us in the face of the enemy, Satan, and when that Spirit is poured out upon us, as many believe that it soon will be, we will have the grace and the wisdom to stand firm in the love of God and in the struggle against the enemy, just like the two witnesses who will also be guided by that Spirit.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by Logarock

 

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
If we do not rebuild ourselves in the peace and the love of God, we will surely destroy ourselves.

To each his own. The Witnesses will never be accused of having to much peace and love as it were.

By rebuilding ourselves in peace and love I did not mean that we should surrender to the enemy. It is more of a surrender to the Holy Spirit, who will have all of the answers that we will need, when we will need them.
.....just like the two witnesses who will also be guided by that spirit.

Like this post by why are you preaching? And to the chior?

Something else to think about.....when John wanted to call fire down Jesus said "you know not what spirit you are of". Lots of debate on that but one thing is for sure, when the two come back to "trouble the earth" it will be in that spirit that drove them in the old days.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by nlouise
Good research on the post DISRAELI.



The tranfiguration of Jesus with Moses and Elijah are representative of The Law and the Prophets and how they must give way to Jesus Christ. Also Moses represents those who die and go to be with the Lord, Elijah represents those who won't die that will see the return of Jesus Christ.

Not really friend. This was Jesus becoming one of "them" not they giving way to Jesus. It was part of the fullfilling or the prophets and in this case becoming transformed. There are several reasons this is true. Important here is that their work is not done. If Christs transfiguration was to mark an end of something there would be no need for the two witnesses to come latter. Moses and Elijah represent grace here.

"If you knew Moses you would know Me for Moses spoke of Me"


What do you think happend to Elijah? Hes on life support somewhere? Hes in a transfigured state right now....which means granted exstended life untill the time of his return and death. Christ gained that state. Christ had to gain that state. But then became first born, first fruit amoung many brothers and is now in a GLORIFIED state. The witnesses will have to give up thier transfigured state by passing through death at some point.

I can asure you that Jesus didn't become one of them. Who was greater?

Who is the fullfillment of Prophecy? Son of God or Moses a man?

Jesus marked the end of the old covenant when he went to the cross, not the transfiguration.

Elijah is with God.

Jesus Christ was shown in his glorified state during the transfiguation.

Elijah doesn't have to die to be with God, neither did Enoch.


Hebrews 9:26-28 (King James Version)

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation


A man is appointed to die once. This means we only die one time, we are not reincarnated and die a second time, we die once. He didn't say you must die. Enoch nor Elijah died.

Moses and Elijah have their glorified bodies now.

What will happen to believers that are alive when Jesus returns at the end? Is he going to kill them and resurrect them? No. They will be changed into their glorified bodies.


1 Corinthians 15:50-52 (King James Version)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.